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Ireland: An SOs secret weapon?


Ireland: An SOs secret weapon?

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Supreme Being
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VISOR is a huge data set that is fed each and every interaction with RSO's. 

What you think is unimportant is the very opposite to the system. 

Ie. Car reg, on its own not worthy information. Now take the data of all area RSO and overlay the ANPR hits. Now you can  see the regular trips and hangout  

So now overlay the big data of all travellers and you see resorts and hotel's.

Basically the notification system saves intelligence officers time and effort doing this the hard way. Now you know why the police fail to solve most crime. Burglars and drug offenders dont need to notify anything. 

Also 99% of police work is by a policy or process, there is seldom freedom of authority or decision making. They like to think they do, but they are just foot soldiers with better pay and pensions. 
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BenS - 14 Nov 18 12:12 PM
Zack - 13 Nov 18 8:40 PM

Agree, but the "discreet" check at the border does state that they can report who he is travelling with the target. Whether they do I wouldn't know.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#discreet-check-information
They are only supposed to use such if "there is a clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence" or "they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future."
AFAIK it seems to be that anyone who reports they are going to travel overseas gets one of these alerts if they are on the SOR. If they risk assess someone as low risk should that really be enough justification?

Elsewhere in that same document, it is stated that all SOR people notifying foreign travel are to have an alert on them for a discreet check.

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#the-use-of-article-362-alerts-for-visor-nominals

The police have no discretion on this - even if they deem you low risk, they must add an alert if you notify foreign travel.

And I agree with the quotation marks in "discreet". Sometimes in my experience it has been extremely indiscreet.

Yes, well, obviously foreign border control staff didn't get the memo and update from the College of Policing.... As discouraging as things are over here, they could still be worse. As for the discreet check, it even mentions objects the subject of the alert is carrying. What - a cheese sandwich? A cup of coffee? A passport? What if they quickly pass the sandwich to someone else to try to avoid detection? Where does this petty invasiveness end?

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

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BenS - 14 Nov 18 12:12 PM
Zack - 13 Nov 18 8:40 PM

Agree, but the "discreet" check at the border does state that they can report who he is travelling with the target. Whether they do I wouldn't know.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#discreet-check-information
They are only supposed to use such if "there is a clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence" or "they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future."
AFAIK it seems to be that anyone who reports they are going to travel overseas gets one of these alerts if they are on the SOR. If they risk assess someone as low risk should that really be enough justification?

Elsewhere in that same document, it is stated that all SOR people notifying foreign travel are to have an alert on them for a discreet check.

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#the-use-of-article-362-alerts-for-visor-nominals

The police have no discretion on this - even if they deem you low risk, they must add an alert if you notify foreign travel.

And I agree with the quotation marks in "discreet". Sometimes in my experience it has been extremely indiscreet.

"Elsewhere in that same document, it is stated that all SOR people notifying foreign travel are to have an alert on them for a discreet check." Ben I know, but the bits I quoted: e.g.  "there is a clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence" or "they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future.". These are the EU rules they are supposed to be following, I think they are misusing their powers by automatically using these alerts, it's not just a case that the UK authorities can use EU systems without following EU regulations: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/GA/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32007D0533
I guess it would have to be tested in court in order for them to change their ways.


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Zack - 17 Nov 18 6:45 PM

"Elsewhere in that same document, it is stated that all SOR people notifying foreign travel are to have an alert on them for a discreet check." Ben I know, but the bits I quoted: e.g.  "there is a clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence" or "they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future.". These are the EU rules they are supposed to be following, I think they are misusing their powers by automatically using these alerts, it's not just a case that the UK authorities can use EU systems without following EU regulations: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/GA/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32007D0533
I guess it would have to be tested in court in order for them to change their ways.


Sorry about that Zack, yes I see your point.

Sadly the UK has long broken EU law in certain matters without a care in the world and without the EU taking any action on it.

For example, a non-EU spouse of an EU citizen who has a valid visa in their EU country of residence has the right to freedom of movement everywhere in the EU, i.e. they can travel to all other EU countries (Schengen and non-Schengen) with no further paperwork, landing card, etc. required. I have a French friend who lives in France with his Peruvian wife and when they visit the UK, she needs a UK visa, in direct opposition to EU law, whereby she should enjoy freedom of movement as a spouse of an EU citizen legally residing in the EU. Last time, following the Home Office visa guidelines, she got all her documents translated into Welsh (as the choice is English or Welsh), just to annoy the Border Force who couldn't care less about the law.
Edited
6 Years Ago by BenS
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BenS - 14 Nov 18 12:12 PM
Zack - 13 Nov 18 8:40 PM

Agree, but the "discreet" check at the border does state that they can report who he is travelling with the target. Whether they do I wouldn't know.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#discreet-check-information
They are only supposed to use such if "there is a clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence" or "they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future."
AFAIK it seems to be that anyone who reports they are going to travel overseas gets one of these alerts if they are on the SOR. If they risk assess someone as low risk should that really be enough justification?

Elsewhere in that same document, it is stated that all SOR people notifying foreign travel are to have an alert on them for a discreet check.

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/schengen-information-system/#the-use-of-article-362-alerts-for-visor-nominals

The police have no discretion on this - even if they deem you low risk, they must add an alert if you notify foreign travel.

And I agree with the quotation marks in "discreet". Sometimes in my experience it has been extremely indiscreet.

And whatever you do don't travel without notifying, you will find there is a "marker" on your passport that shows up when you come back into UK

GO


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