By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Yup its also important to note survival even after employment, just check out the google effect post it shows you what can happen when you disclose and be up front, even following the law or being honest can destroy ones reputation, employment and possibility of getting further work.
Sadly this country relies heavily on a clean record, its almost instinctive to cover ones backside also this wont change....
So you have to change and adjust. Self employment, moving abroad or non disclosure jobs/careers suddenly are still great options.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Nothing will change unless people stand up and let Society know what happens.
The people who shout loudest, are the people who are listened to in this world nowadays.
Now, if we do shout, we could feel the wrath of society, but at least the truth will be out.
We and everyone will know what the majority of society thinks of people with convictions. That there is no forgiveness, second chance or rehabilitation.
However, it maybe that society though that people were given a second chance and there was rehabilitation, but have been conned by people in power, who just wanted society to think there was these things.
I think I know which option will be the truth, the wrath of society!
However as everyone knows if you are a Solicitor, you do not ask questions you do not know the answer to.
I am willing to ask the question, as I believe I know what the answer will be.
At least then I know what I am dealing with then and be able to make a decision of where my life goes.
I am not my conviction. I am a good man.
|
By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
100% agree but I still have no idea how to go about fighting it, then the other question is will it require money, time and patience ?
Those 3 are rare, the only time I have remotely seen it after a few years on this forum is when it involves individual cases ie your own.
I believe unlock has tried to push for change in the past but is now adopting to work along side it, which I get since that is the only way to work.
Maybe it is just a case of a simple blog or website, with a donate pot towards hiring a decent solicitor to bring our voice to the supreme courts, maybe unlock and other organisations like wipe the slate clean maybe interested....
Again no idea how to go about it or who or what exactly to voice it too so I might be talking turnips at this point 
|
By horses - 24 May 10 10:36 PM
Reminds of Mikes quote in Better Call Saul. The outline of it is this: You can be a good man and a criminal, and you can be a bad man and a cop. One has nothing to do with the other, but only one of those men gets a job.
|
By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Need that quote on my grave stone
Better call saul is a good tv series also, hits the truth and hard.
|
By Bachman - 17 Jul 14 5:03 PM
I know where you are coming from Doug. I struggled on agency work (no guaranteed hours) for a good 18 months or so before been giving a chance to work somewhere permanently. I would go for job interviews and they would be really impressed up until the point they asked about unspent convictions. There was only one position in that 18 months I went for and the guy interviewing didn't ask the question. I know I didn't get that job because I wasn't what they were looking for, nothing to do about convictions.
I have now been working for this company for 18 months. I started as a warehouse operative but have recently moved in to management. When I first applied I expected to be knocked back and I disclosed as I legally have to (they asked) at my first interview with HR. Yet I was invited back to a second interview, this time with my would-be manager. He made the final decision and offered me the job. HR spoke to me before I started saying they were fine employing me and thanking me for being honest. I proved myself to be such a useful asset they moved me into management in January 2015. The thing is, nobody (bar HR) knows about my convictions and that is how it should be. I'm treated like any other employee within the business.
I have encouraged our HR manager to employ more people with convictions into jobs and use myself as an example of what can be achieved with a little trust.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Bachman. Well Done.
This is one of the many issues I have with employers. Most seem to be risk averse, (meaning if there is any rick, even a low risk, don't employ), whilst only a small minority, like your employers do an assessment and then make a sensible decision.
Most people with convictions, who have rehabilitated make good employees, because we understand that employers have taken a chance and we will repay that by working hard and being loyal to the company.
Also most people with convictions who rehabilitate, were good employees before they committed their offences. Making a mistake, does not mean you become a bad employee. It just means you have made a mistake and you want to put that behind you and move on with your life, so you will work extra hard to prove you are a good employee, so you became a even better employee for employers to hire.
But most employers only see the conviction and not the person. Only a small minority of employers look beyond the conviction and look at the person.
I am not my conviction. I am a good man.
|
By Marty14 - 15 Sep 14 10:08 AM
Hi Doug, thank you for your posting, I have every sympathy for your situation and hope you are coping and making progress with your job applications or self employment plans. My circumstances almost exactly mirror yours. My convictions will not be spent until Oct/19. I attend probation meetings which offer no practical advice or support and certainly no job rehabilitation strategies which really surprised me as you think they would be expert in getting ex offenders rehabilitated and back into the community, but not so, they don't seem interested, trained or concerned with that at all. The Job Centre are equally not interested, trained or concerned and quickly passed me over to Bootstrap who have given basic support with job applications. Bootstrap say the reality is that employers see ex offenders as a risk, not a personal risk but a risk to their reputation and therefore it is easier for them to say no at the outset and not shortlist ex-offenders regardless of their skills and experience to do the job, which is both shocking and blatant discrimination which I don't think anyone wants but that is what is happening. NACRO say nothing will change until employers face consequences for discriminating against ex offenders. Who for example checks how many ex offenders people employ, or the reason why ex offenders are rejected from the shortlist? Should I be complaining each time I suspect I have been turned down purely because I have a conviction? I am being constantly rejected purely because I have ticked that box or made a declaration and not because of who I am and the skills and experience I can bring to the job. The ROA seems a good idea, giving people with convictions the opportunity to wipe the slate clean but why is there a requirement to add another 4 years onto the period of my sentence before my convictions can be classed as spent? This is an additional and damaging punishment on top of the sentence handed down by the court, why what is its purpose? It should be abolished so a convictions is spent at the end of the sentence handed down by the court, then the rehabilitation can begin. As it stands ex offenders are punished again by every employer they contact for that additional time. What are we supposed I to do until 2019? Keep claiming JSA or earn our own way and pay taxes? The answer seems obvious. I have almost served my sentence but because it won't be spent till 2019 I too feel rejected and unsupported and something needs to change for the millions of us who are trapped in this intolerable situation. I think what we need to do is start a petition to Parliament asking for an urgent amendment to the ROA and the abolition of the additional time being added to sentences before convictions can be considered as spent. There should be no additional time added to sentences handed down by the courts and this would allow ex offenders to be properly rehabilitated into the community without being discriminated against purely because they have a conviction. I would urge anyone in this situation and their supporters to pledge their name to such a petition, there are at least ten million potential signatures, and together our voices can press for much needed change.Post Edited (Marty14) : 17/05/2015 12:37:43 (GMT+2)
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Marty 14 I agree with what you say.
I have thought about submitting a epetition, where if you get 100,000, the government have to debate the issue.
The question was going to be along the lines of abolishing the extra years you have to wait after your sentence, before it is spent.
Also something along the lines of a Rehabilitation Certificate, which you show to an employer after you have been given a job, which shows you have previous convictions, but you have now rehabilitated. This means they cannot dismiss you, but are aware of your previous convictions.
There is also ban the box to be considered, where employers cannot be made aware of your convictions prior to them giving someone a job. Once they have employed someone, then you can disclose. This is where a rehabilitation certificate comes in and the employer then cannot dismiss you, as you have shown you are never going to offend again.
If I submitted an epetition, then I would like the support of all the people on the Forum and their families, to help get the required number of signatures, forcing the government to discuss this issues and get this into the public domain.
Then hopefully we can start to be dealt with in a fairer manner, unless society is happy with people with convictions being discriminated against, then we will have to rethink our options.
|
By Marty14 - 15 Sep 14 10:08 AM
Hi Doug, how are you? I totally agree with what you're proposing and you have my full support, just tell me where and when to add my name. Also there's NACRO and their supporters, I'm sure they would add their support. Any good news on the job front? Any good employers you know of that treat people with convictions like people and who genuinely give people with convictions a fair opportunity? I've just had an interview, I didn't get the job but had what seemed to be an honest feedback conversation. They said my conviction was not an issue, they said they were prepared to give me a fair go and explained the reason why I wasn't successful and suggested areas I could improve for next time. This was constructive but sadly in my experience it isn't commonplace. In fact its the only employer I've applied to that offered to give feedback and say why I wasn't successful and then did! I mean if you show an interest in an employer and take the time to apply for a job with them, then get shortlisted, attend an interview, sometimes also do a test, you deserve a phone call and honest feedback for your troubles. Not 'we're too busy to ring back and if you haven't heard after ten days assume you were unsuccessful' jargon, that's really poor and I suggest its an indicator that the company doesn't care about people including its employees. Now though with my feedback, at least I understand their reasons and that helps me understand and improve and move forward instead of feeling bitter and negative and think that everybody hates me. Thankfully there are good employers out there, just wished there were more of them. Employers should all go that extra mile and remember they are dealing with people with families and sometimes dependents, and everyone deserves to be treated in a professional manner and not notified by a very impersonal rejection letter. Keep the faith! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Sincerely M.Post Edited (Marty14) : 26/05/2015 14:18:24 (GMT+2)
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Awaiting e-petition to open up. Then I will post my petition around employers and they way they should deal with people with convictions.
Watch this space.
|
By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Nice idea with the e-petition had no idea such a thing existed, but the biggest question would be:
1:Can we get 100,000 voters? we have almost 10 million people with records and no one has made a big noise or even as much as a small noise for whatever reason.
2:The proposal would have to be something that benefits us all and simple and to the point
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Still waiting for e-petitions to start after the election.
Checked today, apparently there are a few changes being made to the scheme and it should be up and running at the beginning of July, so says the government website.
Once it is up I will obviously let the forum know.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Hi.
I am looking to put my e-petition onto the government site. But need 5 e-mail addresses to get it on.
I would e-mail you and you click the link to sign it.
Once I have 5 e-mails that have signed the petition it goes onto the site.
Please help me to get this petition on line, so we can highlight the unfair way rehabilitated people with convictions are discriminated against.
Remember there are 10 million people with convictions, we are not a small minority. Let our voice get heard.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Hi
Hi Doug
You’re not done yet!
Forward the email below to your potential supporters.
5 people need to click the link and confirm their support for us to publish your petition.
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Please see the link below.
I don't know if you can click on it to get into it or write it into your browser address and it will take you there.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108416/sponsors/jybBpmMb8mqNCQgmHV
As I say I need 5 people to sign into it and then it goes live on the e-petition site. So people then go to the e-petition site to sign up to the motion.
Please help me to get this live, only 5 people needed.
Thanks
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Bit disappointed no responses so far.
All you have to do is copy and paste link to your web browser and sign petition.
5 will get the petition published and then hopefully we can get more people to support us and get this important issue discussed.
There are 10 million people with convictions, lets start to have our voice heard.
|
By expatofff - 3 May 15 6:21 AM
Let's be honest if you're struggling to get 5, might be a bit of a reach to get 100k.
Prejudice will always happen when it comes to people with Convictions. This forum is a prime example when it decided to segregate and abandon a large selection of people trying to rehabilitate due to them having committed certain offences. That says a lot when this is thw supposed voice of the reformed offender.
Lastly I fear you have discovered what is the problem of our society, apathy. People, including people with convictions, are just too apathetic. Unless it's the current fashionable good cause people don't care. Maybe you should ask people to get wet or do some stupid act whilst signing, might be more popular then.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
expatoff you may be right. But sometimes to change things you have to put your head above the parapet and challenge. If you don't thinks will stay the same.
So come on everyone, be brave, stand up and let people know that you an ex-offender who has moved on and will never offend again and you are fed up being discriminated against.
Sign the petition today.
You are not your conviction, you are all good people.
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Hi. Have to say I am disappointed that I did not get 5 people to sign up to my e-petition from the forum.
Whilst I appreciate that we are all ashamed of our convictions, these are in the past.
We should be proud that we are all moving on with our lives and will not offend again.
If we do not challenge, then nothing will change and in the future people who get convictions will continue to be discriminated against.
I am not going to stand by and do nothing.
I will challenge and put my head above that parapet and try to change things, so it is fairer for people with convictions who have rehabilitated, to gain employment.
I may not succeed, but at least I can say I tried.
|
By JohnL - 10 Sep 15 1:13 PM
I signed up Doug - how many is you get?
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Thank you JohnL.
I now have 3 people signed up to the e-petition, 2 more needed to sign up to go on to the e-petition site.
|
By Pinkfur - 5 Oct 15 9:35 AM
Hi all
My conviction was in 2013 and according to all the new regulations, it is apparently spent (2 years) so although I do not have to tick the "Do you have any unspent criminal convictions?" box on job applications, I still have to declare if I have any unprotected convictions, which I do, as it was custodial (4 weeks but not served) so will not be eligible for filtering 
I have a degree, but ironically, I have been unsuccessful trying to get interviews for supermarkets (although that was just after the conviction) but I have been interviewed for jobs at universities and the NHS (this year)! For those type of jobs obviously the ROA does not apply, due to the nature of the work. I've not been successful as yet and for those organisations who do provide feedback, I am of the opinion that it is rubbish (cynical, I know) and the reason is because of the conviction. Although in saying that, I was offered a job at a London hospital in January but after the training, I decided it wasn't for me. I believe there are companies who will employ ex-offenders but due to the job market, they usually have so many applicants, they can disregard all those with convictions immediately as there are so many other people to choose from! 
As someone mentioned already, what are ex-offenders supposed to do then, remain on JSA until their conviction is spent and even after that period, we still have difficulties, which reminds me of this quote:
DON'T JUDGE MY STORY BASED ON ONE CHAPTER YOU HAPPENED TO WALK INTO
|
By doug - 10 Jul 14 4:57 PM
Pinkfur, I like your sentence at the end.
It does appear people judge you on your conviction, not on all the other good things you may of done in your life.
I now have 4 people supporting my petition. One more and it goes live.
Please support the petition, it will be for the benefit of all of us who have convictions and have rehabilitated. We deserve to be treated fairer, so we can contribute to society and get on with our lives.
|
By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
I know I will sound like sour grapes here but agree with expatofff, its not just the nature of being an ex-offender its more to do with how the British see people and react to them so no petition will ever change this, the politics, government, police and society have already concluded this so its safety first, trouble afterwards approach. As a British people this is how we roll and progress I prefer to call it covering the backside approach, while we should not have this attitude it exist and defines the British.
Lets take Jeremy clarkson he should be in prison for assault or even at the very least with a criminal record, but nope the british public have to have what they want so they petition away in the millions, they still fail yet get him back anyhow, we may ask how? Clarkson entertains millions and brings a smile to there depressing lives so what can an ex-offender offer a potential employer or the British public ?
Short answer is nothing since millions of clean record or non ex-offenders are applying for the same job or trying to do the same thing.
The only thing anyone can strive for is the move away from UK, go self employed or get an job which ever way possible and move on, life has to continue because were not jeremy clarkson but an interesting after thought is what if we were a little like jeremy clarkson ?
|
|