theForum

Sex Offenders Annual Registration Help


https://forum.unlock.org.uk/Topic27492.aspx

By Mark15788 - 14 Jan 21 1:35 PM

Hoping this posts as I don't seem to be able to start a new thread.

Thought I would add it to my existing one.

I know that I need to report my new debit card within three days of today, as it has just arrived. 

The bit that concerns me is the card states valid from 12/20, and the attached letter has no date on, so im worried they will think it was issued last month. 
By xDanx - 14 Jan 21 2:28 PM

I assume your debit card came in the post attached (glued) to a letter?
If so does the letter its self provide a date?
If you have already given bank account details as well as previous debit card information I don't think you have anything to worry about. But if in doubt see if you can speak to your PPU.
By Mark15788 - 14 Jan 21 2:40 PM

Yes it came glued.

I’ve looked everywhere on the letter and there’s no date.

I have reported my bank account and debit card details previously, this debit card will be the new card as the previous one is expiring this month.

I do have a text from the bank saying expect your new card in five working days, think that will suffice if I’m asked?
By Mr W - 14 Jan 21 3:00 PM

It’s worth a quick call to tell your ppu it came today. As long as you’re showing you’re playing by their rules, it should be fine.

They may even take registration of it over the phone since we’re in lockdown. Main point is don’t worry Smile

By Mark15788 - 14 Jan 21 3:06 PM

I already sent an email early in January to advise my debit card was expiring and he said the guidelines stipulated I can leave the house to fulfill legal obligations and therefore need to attend the police station.

Hopefully, the fact that I sent an email early January asking when I get the card shows that I was waiting and also the text backs up the card was only sent out a few days ago.

If worst comes to the worst they are more than happy to ring the bank and get clarification.

I’ve read online new cards normally have a overlap so that’s why it’s got on valid from 12/20.
By Simon1983 - 14 Jan 21 4:23 PM

I once had a PPU officer that was happy for you to email a picture of the debit card and would take that as proof of notification, on day these rules will be more clear cut and not open to interpretation 
By Mark15788 - 14 Jan 21 5:10 PM

I’ll just head across tomorrow to do it and then email as a follow up.
By Mark15788 - 22 Feb 21 4:45 PM

Thought I’d add to this thread Dan.

I contacted the solicitors regulation authority and apparently they hold details of what happens to files when firms go into liquidation. They said their system has not updated so ring back in 30 days.

As for the solicitor I spoke to I’m not sure what to think. She’s the only one that replies in the area so I didn’t have anyone else to ask.
By xDanx - 22 Feb 21 10:33 PM

If the solicitor you spoke to recently is still willing to take your emails and answer any questions, forward the information I posted in the standard shpo restrictions thread and see what she says. Solicitor who dealt with your case to begin with should have argued the notification of devices, but get confirmation from the solicitor you spoke too.
By Mark15788 - 23 Feb 21 9:55 AM

Yes, I’ll send her an email and see if she will respond to that question and information too.

By Mark15788 - 23 Jan 21 11:01 PM

No mention of router in the SHPO just devices.
By xDanx - 24 Jan 21 1:01 AM

Try again....

If you could share what the order says word for word I could give some further insight. According to my previous PPU he stated to me that if it is not written in my orders then there is no restriction. The fact that your order does not specifically mention routers, then technically you do not have to notify or provide details. However, if your order states you must notify and provide details then given the router is in technical terms a device that provides internet access to other devices, it can be classed as an internet enabled device.
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 11:01 AM

I can’t do word for word as the forums won’t let me post long posts. It needs fixing!!
By Was - 24 Jan 21 11:28 AM

My understanding is that SRO changes must be done in person at a police station, but SROs do not include a requirement to notify devices. You don't even have to give your mobile phone number if you don't want to. Notification of devices for complying with a SHPO can be done legally by email, but your PPO might want to be an arse about it, and they are always entitled to inspect them under most SHPOs if they so wish. I reported my Fire TV Sticks, DVR, TV and laser printer by email, because they have WiFi and/or an ethernet connection. Not taking any chances!
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 11:31 AM

My SHPO just states that I am prohibited from using a computer or a device UNLESS, it has been reported to the police within 3 days of acquisition, that its capable of retaining the history of internet use and that I should make all computers and devices available for inspection on request.
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 11:32 AM

So to be how does a router fall under that?
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 1:12 PM

See if this uploads.
By Mark15788 - 1 Feb 21 5:04 PM

Spoke to a few more today, in the end I’ve went with the first one as they have no time limit on the consultation.

I’ll ask about the smith compliant thing, I’m also going to see if I can get clarification on a few points, alongside this with the mention of polygraph testing last year I’m going to see what he has to say.

They said they would go through anything I wanted in relation to the SHPO. Any suggestions on what else I should ask? Use my lovey wisely kind of thing.
By Blueman202 - 1 Feb 21 10:19 PM

I would ask them about your first condition on your shpo mine originally was ment to be written almost the same as your but it was the judge who actually pointed it out and said having to notify social service was unnecessary kept it to just notifying the parents.
By xDanx - 1 Feb 21 11:19 PM

Would you be willing to share some minor details of your offence and sentencing? Such as, were you given a suspended sentence? how long does it say your SHPO lasts? How long do you have to sign the register?
In your case I would question the legality of the SHPO, as your previous barrister stated no SHPO will be drafted but still received one after being sentenced?
By Mark15788 - 3 Feb 21 3:57 PM

Sorry I didn't see this. 
I received a community order for 2 years and 5 years SHPO and sex offenders register. 
This May ill be 3 years through.
Yes originally I was informed there would be no SHPO and then one was issued at sentencing which I hadn't seen in advance. 
I know social services had a disclosure as they contacted my mother in relation to bro and sis, they sent a letter saying no action needed. 
I also know DBS were informed and alter I made representations they decided not to place me on any of the barred lists. 
By Mark15788 - 3 Feb 21 4:02 PM

Having trouble replying again, sorry if there are duplicates. 
Just to add..
I complete the community order with no issues and the horizon course.
Was always told I was doing well.
Last officer visit, they mentioned polygraph testing and that its optional but also that they can get the SHPO renewed after 5 years if needed, scare tactic for some reason? Id love to know on what grounds?
Tel appt with solicitor on Friday afternoon. 
By Mark15788 - 4 Feb 21 5:11 PM

Well I’ve made my notes and questions.
Let’s hope the money spent gets me some answers.
By xDanx - 4 Feb 21 7:37 PM

Good luck and let us know how it all goes.
By Mark15788 - 5 Feb 21 10:08 PM

I’m not sure if the cost of the appointment was well spent..

In terms of smith compliant she said in her eyes it is, she did mention two further points though.

1. Yes it’s correct I should of been given a copy before sentencing, however she suspects the solicitor received a copy and failed to show me.

2. The device prohibitation. She said with technology changing and advancing and more and more products connecting to the internet. If it got to the point where I was always attending the station to report something, maybe that prohibitation could be more specific to what devices it includes. On the back of that though, 2 years left, by the time she submitted it and the courts worked through backlogs, is it worth it and the money? A choice for me.
By Mark15788 - 5 Feb 21 10:19 PM

I have more to say but right now it’s not letting me post long paragraphs again!!
By xDanx - 6 Feb 21 6:47 AM

That is interesting, In her eyes she believes it is smith compliant yet accepts you did not receive your SHPO in advance which makes it non smith compliant. SHPO's must be drafted to be proportionate to an individuals offence and must be given in advanced of any hearing to be amended, which is supposed to stop the miss use of the SHPO and ultimately not include orders which require notifications. Because that is the purpose of the notification requirements which has been previously stated does not include registering new devices. Forgive me for asking but if you are willing, what was the offence?
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 8:07 AM

She did bring up the notification requirements because she said they don’t include reporting of devices they have to include it in the SHPO.

My offence was, attempted sexual communication with a child.

By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 8:13 AM

Let’s see if this posts this time.

On the aspect of the police threats of “they can extend if they want”.

She said there would need to be evidence of concern and to ignore them. She said after listening to what I had done to help myself she couldn’t see how they would justify it.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 8:16 AM

Stuff I’ve done since conviction are: attend talking therapies for MH, complete a course of CBT, study for qualifications in business, customer service and team leading, currently studying for my BTEC diploma L4 in business, re-engage with family, complete my community order and horizon course, followed the SHPO, not reoffended or received any warnings etc.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 8:23 AM

Last thing...

Polygraph. She said it’s a new thing the police have lashed on to.

She advised to not agree to it, not very scientific, my health issues like anxiety and my nerve damage from my diabetes that causes me to sometimes sweat more and my BP that fluctuates would all contribute in likeliness to false positives.

She pointed out all refusal would do would probably increase their perceived risk level and increase visits.
By xDanx - 6 Feb 21 10:53 AM

Given the news about polygraphs from the Jeremy Kyle show, they can not be trusted. Of course police will continue to attempt to use them for any justification, If the choice is optional then I too would not agree to it. You can technically make applications to vary or discharge at any stage even with in the first 5 years, but for a variation or discharge must seek permission from the local Chief Constable. Legal aid can cover these applications but it depends on the solicitors, some allow it where as most will seek privately funded. After the 5 year mark, no permission is required from the police and I think that is why they scare you with the idea of extensions.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 11:40 AM

Mine is fixed at 5 years anyway. So hopefully they won’t decide to challenge it and it will just end. At least I have a little reassurance that because I’ve cooperated, done a lot to address behaviour and circumstances in my life and move forward with education etc I wouldn’t give them the grounds to ask for an extension and if they did hopefully a judge would say no.

I just want to put this biggest mistake of my life behind me and move on.

I’m not eager to go back to court and vary anything now, I’ve coped 3 years so another 2 should be ok, I just wanted clarification on what my rights are. So I suppose talking to the solicitor did help me.
By xDanx - 6 Feb 21 12:30 PM

I am not entirely sure what happens after given date a SHPO ends, I am also 3 years in to my SHPO and its been around 1 year since I really started to question my conditions which I have detailed in previous posts. It is a shame your solicitors are no longer operating as if I was told no SHPO would be drafted, then only to be handed one day of sentencing. I would be forwarding some complaints. I too was not given anything relating to my SHPO until the day of sentencing which I have put in some complaints about. But now the legal ombudsman are dealing with it so still waiting for their decision.  Given it was your barrister who stated no SHPO was being drafted, you could file a complaint to the courts directly? if you so choose too.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 3:51 PM

Yeah the solicitor I spoke to said if I had any more questions just to send her an email so maybe I’ll ask if it’s worth complaining about what I was told and what happened.

My belief is, once the end date is reached, it just ends, I don’t think anything official is meant to happen.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 3:58 PM

Quick side question too..my original solicitors has been liquidated. Is there a way to still get access to my file?
By xDanx - 6 Feb 21 4:18 PM

If the firm no longer exist then I am not to sure how or who you could apply for a subject access request, however I came across this which might be of some help. https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/solicitor-closed-down/. If you remember the name of the solicitor / barrister dealing with your case and can track them down, they may have some idea.
By Mark15788 - 6 Feb 21 4:39 PM

Thanks. I’ll have a look into that too.
By Mark15788 - 23 Jan 21 7:43 PM

Just another question from me.

Have you lot reported a new router?

My assumption is it doesn't fall under "acquisition of a new device capable of connecting to the internet" because the router is the actual thing that allows your devices to connect.

Just having issues at the moment and there sending me a new one in the post.

My old router was already set up before I was convicted and when I was convicted the only details they took was details of my phone, laptop and who my service provider was, but no router details. 
By xDanx - 23 Jan 21 8:29 PM

Providing details of devices that connect to the internet is not part of the notification requirements from my understanding. However, I understand some get given an order as such to give details of devices as part of the sexual harm prevention order. Does your order (if you have one) specifically state you must provide details of devices that connect to the internet including the router?
By Mark15788 - 7 Apr 21 3:35 PM

Finally got a reply from someone connected to my original solicitors firm. They sent me an email. Hopefully will be able to get access to my file they hold.
By xDanx - 24 Jan 21 4:18 PM

This is seriously becoming annoying now.....

Until you get your order amended ( which you can do at any point ) you will have to notify them of all devices. I would include the router just to keep you safe so they dont make things harder for you.
I am no legal professional but from my research I do not believe your SHPO is smith compliant and your solicitor should have amended it.

Did they attempt to do so or were you simply given the SHPO right after court?
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 5:30 PM

I spoke to my officer he told me to report it when I receive it.

I was concerned that he might say something about my first officer not wanting the details of the router I had when I was convicted.

Can you explain what’s wrong with my order?
By xDanx - 24 Jan 21 5:56 PM

If I recall correctly you mentioned your offence related to images? (apologies if that is incorrect)
If so then based on the information I have found both from the forum and other sources, SHPO's have to be what is considered "smith compliant"
What that basically means is SHPO's must be proportionate to an individuals offence, one example being: Those with image related offences (non contact) should not be given restrictions on contact if there is no evidence, especially when an individual has children of their own and could be considered an infringement of their child's rights to family life. https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff7a360d03e7f57eb094c paragraphs 21, 22, 23
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 6:02 PM

Ah sorry no, mine was not an image based offence.

I decided the best thing to do was to get in touch with my allocated officer and he said he would want me to go in and register the new router so I said I would do this once it arrived.

My concern was because I was probably naive at the beginning of all this was, once convicted I went and did my notification and then once sentenced and given the SHPO I had an initial meeting with the allocated officer at the time which was different to who I have now and he didn’t record the details of my router just my phone and laptop. So was thinking will this cause issues? Will they think I had failed to register the first router? Because it was a face to face meeting there is no record to back up the convo from three years ago.
By xDanx - 24 Jan 21 6:08 PM

I also believe the order to notify police of devices is also being miss-used as it is not the purpose of the SHPO to force an individual to provide information as that is the purpose of the notification requirements. I will link the relevant source when I come across it again. But to put it simply. The SHPO are the donts where as the notification requirements are the do's.

If you were not given time to read and understand the contents of your order at least 2 days before sentencing and if no amendments were made by your solicitor, then I believe that also makes your SHPO not smith compliant if the order was given to you the same day as sentencing.
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 6:31 PM

Basically what happened was, the CPS were trying to prosecute me for something I believed I had not done and therefore pleaded not guilty throughout.

My solicitor was trying to get the charge changed to a lesser charge and in the end that’s what happened, the CPS accepted this as I was prepared to please guilty as that’s what I was guilty of.

I had the hearing, pleaded guilty and had a same day appointment to get the PSR complete, my barrister told me that they were not making an application for a SHPO.

Four weeks later I attended sentencing and that’s when I found out an application had been made and granted. I was handed it at the end.
By xDanx - 24 Jan 21 8:24 PM

If that is the case then I would seek some legal advice in all honesty.

Take a look at paragraph 26 in the link I provided above.
By Mark15788 - 24 Jan 21 9:16 PM

Yes, I’ll have a look.

Will I be able to approach any solicitor for advice?

My solicitor does not work for the same firm anymore because it doesn’t exist no more.

On my other point, will it cause trouble that my first allocated officer didn’t record the router I had in my house when I was convicted and insisted he didn’t need it?
By xDanx - 25 Jan 21 9:01 AM

It never hurts to call up some local firms and ask questions which focus on criminal case types, I have done the same and honestly most I have spoken too simply know nothing about the smith court of appeal or any knowledge of the link I provided. How the PPU do their job really isn't your responsibility. if you offered the router and other devices for them to inspect and they decide not to is no fault of your own.
By Mark15788 - 25 Jan 21 10:00 AM

I appreciate the replies.

I suffer really bad with anxiety and take medication so I really struggle sometimes with this sort of thing and thinking I’d be the one that got a bollocking for them not recording it.

I think also it comes down to individual officers and how they work and interpret things.
By xDanx - 25 Jan 21 5:14 PM

I understand completely, I too struggle with anxiety from time to time. I have made complaints relating to my own conviction and SHPO which honestly seem to be falling on deaf ears but I am not giving up. Give yourself time to absorb the info and then when you feel ready to start challenging things speak to a few solicitors and question whether your SHPO is smith compliant.
By Mark15788 - 26 Jan 21 5:49 PM

Thanks! It’s not nice!

I just worried because my first officer retired. After conviction/sentencing which was nearly 3 years ago we set up an initial meeting to go through things, all he asked for was details about my phone, my phone provider and broadband provider, so he clearly knew I had a router but asked for no details.

My worry was if they were to get my report of a new router and they say m “oh there’s no record of your first router” and try and suggest I failed to tell them. I’d have no proof as it was a face to face meeting just me and him.

The wording of the Shpo is confusing too as it talks about acquisition of a device so that seems like new devices not exdisting ones held before conviction.

I just worry too much.
By xDanx - 26 Jan 21 7:14 PM

I understand how hard it is not worry, given the limited knowledge police have when it comes to technology. If your first officer failed to obtain the details of your previous router and the new officers try to make it an issue, you can simply state you offered it for inspection but he declined to record the details. Then explain your order states to notify of new devices which you have done with in 3 days of acquiring it. Because you have offered it it is then up to the officers how they proceed. My old PPU always appreciated my calls if there was anything I was unsure about as in his eyes that was me making sure I am following my order.
By Mark15788 - 26 Jan 21 7:50 PM

Thanks for the reassurance.

My current officer did actually say to me, I’m the only one on his caseload that asks questions and asks for clarification.

He knows I have a new router coming and he said just report it three days from receiving it.

So I should stop worrying really, just in my nature I think.
By lotsofquer - 27 Jan 21 10:23 PM

Unable to post long response related to the SHPO conditions so trying pastebin.  Password is WKBucACAr7
Link is https://pastebin.com/ufht4GU6
By khafka - 27 Jan 21 10:53 PM

Good idea with Pastebin. Password: B2vdh4TTQf  https://pastebin.com/R20PJZ4w
By Mark15788 - 28 Jan 21 10:31 AM

I think what I’ll do is I’ll try and approach a local solicitor and just ask if s/he can look over my order etc and make sure it’s smith compliant.

I don’t have an issue with reporting the router or anything else for that matter, if they want all the paperwork that’s up to them to sit there and process it.

My main worry as I’ve already mentioned was the fact when I was convicted and sentenced I already had a router and they knew this but they wanted no details. I would have no proof that the conversation took place or what was said. Therefore they could say I’ve breached but then again, how do they prove it too?

My anxiety has just shot up this week.
By lotsofquer - 28 Jan 21 1:20 PM


I wouldn't worry about the previous router.  Your orders clearly state "within 3 days of aquisition".  You did not aquire the previous router after your orders came about - it was already something you had so it would be a complete waste of time for them to try breach you for something you aren't required to do.  Also if I recall correctly you mentioned that you told them who your ISP was so they know you have the internet. Given they weren't interested and clearly know that you have internet then again trying to breach you is just a waste of everytimes time and likely they will be laughed out of court.  If they were to go down that route then any first year law student would be able to get that thrown out. Not a lawyer btw but just my two cents.
By Mark15788 - 28 Jan 21 1:45 PM

I appreciate the comments. As I’ve said before I suffer with anxiety and I am a natural worrier so I tend to over think everything.

It’s arrived about 5 minutes ago so I’m going to head over in the morning to report it as a new device.