By lansdowne - 24 Sep 11 8:27 AM
Hello everyone
I joined Unlock forum as I found it to be the most informative of all the forums/question sites I have trawled over the last few years. I have a bit of a story to tell so bear with me please and I would be grateful for any help or advice because I am desperate.
I am an experienced and I enjoy my job. I made a terrible mistake: I went into a high street store and walked out with a book without paying for it. Before I realised what was happening I was in a police station in a cell in a complete state of shock.
Explanations seemed futile so I didn't say much in my defence. I just tried to remain calm, polite and co operative. I had had no contact with the police in my life previous to this event, nor have I since. The police told me that as it was a first offence they would let me go if I agreed to pay a fine ( a PND of 80 pounds). I agreed as I just wanted out of there and the prospect of going to court appalled me.(I was terrified and I didn't want my family to find out). The policeman dealing with me was concerned when he learnt that I was a teacher and said that he was going to put down that I was 'unemployed' so that it would not be reported to my employer. I think he was trying to help me.
It was only later that I realised that this PND is recordable and forms part of 'Other relevant information' in an enhanced CRB which MAY or MAY NOT be disclosed by a the local chief police officer. Since then I have lived in absolute dread of an enhanced crb which all teachers need, of course. It got to the stage that earlier this year, I applied for a 'Subject Access Request' from my local police force and, sure enough, it was all recorded there in black and white and I was recorded as 'unemployed'. I had suspected as much, but it still came as a terrible blow to know that my entire professional life, livelihood, and personal respect is now hanging by a thread. I had been teaching at the same school for many years and people were asking why I wasn't 'moving on' or seeking promotion, which is something I wanted to do. I couldn't tell them that it was because of what an enhanced crb might disclose and the damage this would do. I don't want to disclose up front either as these things have a tendency to 'get out' amongst the school teacher community despite confidentiality. I couldn't live with the damage this would do to my family. I have read Unlock forums regarding non convictions with interest and note that they may or may not be disclosed depending on relevancy to the job and the possibility of representations to the chief police officer if they are minded to disclose. These are the only straws I am clutching at now but I am generally pessimistic and feel that it will be disclosed.
Last May I voluntarily left my school because I was offered a job at a college (where I am writing this!) It broke my heart but I thought this was a means of escape from this situation and I had lived under the daily terror of our headteacher requiring everyone to update their crb at any time. However, the new job is not really for me and I miss my family and primary school teaching desperately. I need to get home but you can see what I am facing: the possibility of a disclosure about the above on any enhanced crb I have to apply for when I get home. Do members think that approaching my local police to talk about the situation and making a representation in advance would help? I made a stupid mistake but I have paid for it in mental agony over five years - is there any chance of putting this behind me and getting on with my life? What, in memeber's opinions, is the best way out of this terrible situation?
I will be grateful for any advice that people can offer - Thank youPost Edited (lansdowne) : 10/04/2016 16:13:00 (GMT+2)
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By Newton - 6 Sep 10 12:30 PM
Hi Lansdowne
I am a teacher and am currently applying for jobs. OK I don't have a conviction but what I have noticed on ALL the application forms is they say if you have a conviction then you must put details about your conviction on a separate sheet of paper in a sealed envelope. This is, I think, to prevent your 'data' getting into the 'wrong' hands. They will then take this into consideration when looking at your application form.
Due to the fact the your conviction was a few years ago now. Had nothing to do with your job. I would think that, even though it will come up on an enhanced CRB, that it should not make too much difference to your application as long as the letter (note) about it is complete enough to explain it. With regards to the police putting you down as unemployed - I can't think why they suggested this as it makes no difference to future CRB requests. If your potential employer picked this up (don't think your status at the time of the offence shows up on the CRB) I feel you just need to tell them that this was what the police did and you couldn't do anything about it.
It could be that you may like to try supply first so that hopefully you can get your 'feet under the table'. This may lead to a permanent post in the future. OK you still have to do a CRB but at least you will have the agency to shield behind in the first place and they will do any explaining for you.
I think your chances of getting the police to remove this from the PNC is just about zero and I have no idea how you could go about this. Perhaps others on here will be able to help you with this.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Mrs. Newton
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By AJH - 20 Aug 10 5:04 PM
Hi Lansdowne,
Not sure if this will make you feel any better, but...
Some years ago before I saw the light and left to work in business, I used to work in a secondary school. There was a brilliant teacher there who used to be a solicitor but had spent time in prison (from memory for some sort of financial fraud) and he ended up teaching law! So it IS possible to work in education with a 'criminal record'. If you are a good enough teacher and can demonstrate that - a mistake as minor as yours should not prevent you. Any headteacher refusing to employ someone because of something like that is probably very narrow-minded and probably not the sort of person you want to end up working for!
My advice is to focus on doing a brilliant application and giving a great interview - but be honest about the fine and explain that you made a silly mistake. However, don't focus on this issue to the exclusion of making it obvious that you are the best candidate - if a school wants to employ you badly enough, then there is no reason why an £80 fine for a minor offence should stop you.
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By lansdowne - 24 Sep 11 8:27 AM
Many thanks for your replies and good advice.
I will find 'fronting up' about this to an employer difficult and still cling to the hope that it may not be disclosed by the Chief Police Officer to the crb as this kind of disclosure is not automatic but down to their discretion (unlike convictions, cautions etc.). However, the likelihood is that it will be, I suppose. I am aware that they will not remove it from my PNC record until I am 100!
I read that there was the possibility of being able to make a 'representation' to the the CPO if they informed you they were going to disclose. Does anybody have any experience or knowledge about this area?
Thanks
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By Newton - 6 Sep 10 12:30 PM
Hi Lansdowne
I agree with Andy. Don't make this the focus of your application. The more you make of it the more 'they' will.
I'm sure you are a great teacher from your first post so make sure they all know that. Also you should get great references from your previous post in the UK and hopefully in the Middle East. Make sure your CV is brilliant and your letter of application sparkles.
Again, as Andy said, if a headteacher won't employ you because of a minor offence like yours then certainly I wouldn't want to work for them!
Go for it!
Mrs. Newton.
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By mchammerpants52 - 27 Oct 11 1:16 PM
same situation really i intended to become a teacher in HE 3d ,but was convicted of misuse of credit cards as i was managing a care home at the time. once you are branded i feel you are stuck with it. can u use your skill in self employment example i have been painting and designing bespoke sculptures in its infancy yet .
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By lucyMae - 2 Mar 12 9:17 PM
im so worried!
i have the same PND as you for shoplifting, Im off to uni in the summer and want to be a teahcer afterr that
of course NOBODY will probably employ me 
im so worried, i was 16 at the time its just ridiculous a bottle of fake tan!
please help/advise me!
(sorry for crappy spelling ect on my iphone!)
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By toysil55 - 23 Aug 10 1:28 AM
H, Lansdowne / lucy Mae ,
I have posted previously on this matter ( PND ) as I to was issued with one for a Shoplifting Matter almost 3 years ago , this incident was on my part a mistake and I had no intentions of putting myself in this situation , however non the less had to accept this or go to court and plead my case with the prospect of being found guilty and having a criminal conviction .
The one comfort I have is that whilst this is recorded on the PNC and MAY be disclosed on an ECRB , it is not a conviction as there is no admission of guilt .
I have as yet not had to face re completion of my CRB , this is due at any time , I did speak to the Police PND Office in Hampshire and followed this up with a letter which they responded to , basically disclosure is not automatic and would be considered at the time of the CRB request . I also googled nottinghamshire police and had a faviourable response from them indicatting that this would not be discosed by their force !!! ( as a one off PNDissue )
I also undertook to apply for a SAR and this is duly recorded .
When I have to apply for my ECRB , I will advise on the outcomes but dont worry go for it I am sure you will make a great teacher, life goes on nobody is 100% perfect
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By toysil55 - 23 Aug 10 1:28 AM
To update re any other Member who may have been the recipient of a PND for a shoplifting matter , I know in the grand scheme of things this would appear quite trivial , however it has caused me many sleepless nights wondering if this would be disclosed on my current DBS disclosure .
The good news being that this matter was not disclosed by the police
Regards
JJ
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
PNDs do not constitute a criminal record; they are non-conviction information and treated as intelligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_penalty_notice
That is a quote from the above link, so I would treat it exactly for what it is its not a criminal conviction just a very minor thing. When applying for any job just like with a Caution or PND you should never need to check that criminal conviction box since like with a caution a PND is not a criminal conviction.
So if it does pop up on the DBS check, explain it briefly "If it comes to a chat with the boss" like the above advice from the great posters and just let them know it was a misunderstanding it happens.
Heck the other day while in a chicken shop the guy handed me my food and I almost walked out but then remembered I still have to pay for my food the guy clearly forgot and hard to explain but in that moment of handing me a big bag of lovely smelling food I just wanted to eat !
Of course I paid for it but does this make me a criminal if I did not pay for it.....
Your case like everyones else's is evidence the UK needs a complete overhaul of DBS and Criminal records but it will never happen so just count your stars you only got a PND which imo is easily explainable and is not a criminal conviction remotely and that is just what the UK Government Law says so be confident as ever.
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By RemorseA - 20 Mar 14 10:36 PM
toysil55 said...
To update re any other Member who may have been the recipient of a PND for a shoplifting matter , I know in the grand scheme of things this would appear quite trivial , however it has caused me many sleepless nights wondering if this would be disclosed on my current DBS disclosure .
The good news being that this matter was not disclosed by the police
Regards
JJ
Good news!
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