theForum » Criminal record checks for employment (including DBS checks) » DBS barring » Appealing DBS decisions » ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

Yankee — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 10:59:10 GMT

[quote]

[b]Yankee - 1 May 15 4:00 PM[/b]

My offence fell into the 'Automatic Barring with right to representations" category and I received a DBS letter giving me 8 weeks to make written representations.

I composed an objective and structured letter outlining reasons why the barring would be disproportionate and inappropriate. Wherever possible, I quoted from my pre-sentence reports (especially the Risk sections) and also included some relevant quotes from character witness statements used during my trial.

I spoke to the DBS this week to check status (3 months has elapsed). They told me that they are in the process of collecting further evidence and are waiting to receive a copy of the judge's sentencing remarks.

I don't know what the eventual outcome will be and will post to the forum when I hear. The positive is that they are taking action to get more information and didn't reject out of hand. The unknown is whether that is done as a matter of course and therefore no one with any decision making power has actually reviewed my representations in detail.

[/quote]

Sorry, I meant to update this with the outcome. The good news for me is that the DBS accepted the representations and removed me from the barring lists. As part of the process, they went to the court to get the transcript of the judges sentencing remarks.

While this makes very little difference to me in terms of future employment and doesn't address all the earlier adverse publicity, it removes the stigma. Bottom line is that it was a mindset thing - the thought that someone somewhere who doesn't know me could consider me a potential risk to children or vulnerable adults used to eat away at me. Thankfully, that's no longer the case.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

Anchors — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 10:59:10 GMT

I was convicted of battery whilst working as a Mothers Help. To cut a long story short, I was told that there was no way that I'd be convicted...and then I was. It came as a total shock. I was sentenced to community service and probation, which I completed.

I've had a letter stating that I can appeal my inclusion on the ISA children and adults barred lists, as they didn't notify me of the change from POCA/POVA/List 99. They've advised that I get a solicitor, but my quotes so far are around £1000, and I can't afford that.

It's been six years since. I'm obviously not OFSTED registered anymore, nor do I work with children or adults. I have built myself a career and a new family, and I have been in no trouble since. I was rated as a low risk of reoffending by probation. My mental health conditions are now fully under control.

To be honest, being on these lists makes me feel ashamed. It stops me from being able to talk about my experience and stop other people making the mistakes that I did, and it prevents me from having any involvement with anything child related professionally, where I believe I could be useful. That wouldn't be direct contact! Being on the lists also causes me a lot of anxiety and means I feel unable to travel internationally - I'm guessing I'd be rejected from the US/Australia/Canada, for example.

Has anyone been through this, or found anything useful online? I'm really struggling to find anything at all to help me.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

BenS — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Congratulations! It makes a big mental difference, doesn't it, that you're not on a watch list like some evil predator who is unsafe to other humans

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

JohnL — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Well done for sticking at it, Yankee. I imagine that the mental strain must have been pretty tough.

I no longer have to notify and received a caution, I also didn't receive any letter from the ISA/DBS telling me that I'd been referred for barring, so I don't know whether I actually am or not.

Can I ask what your conviction was for (the crime), and what arguments you made to say it was disproportionate?

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

Yankee — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Here's an update and for once it's good news for me.

The DBS considered my representations and have confirmed that I have been removed from the Children's and Adults Barred Lists.

It doesn't make much difference to my daily life or career as I still have several years of notification left and an unspent conviction and suffer from the google effect (I wish i'd been born John Smith or Adam Jones). Likewise, the conviction will always appear on a standard or enhanced DBS check.

However, it's a mental thing and it was really painful to be considered a potential risk to others, especially children. It's reassuring to find one department in the system who actually listens and weights up the evidence on an objective basis.

See my post of 16/12/15 which detailed the approach I took when making representations.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

BenS — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Hi JohnL,

A quick search reveals the ISA no longer exists and has merged to be part of the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS), So I don't know if the appeal process might have changed as a result.

With some convictions you are automatically put on the barred lists even if the judge doesn't expressly state it. I think the Sexual Offences Act 2003 lists the offences that lead to automatic inclusion.

I don't know the answer, but I would guess that to check if you are on the list you can ask the DSB, or if they are evasive then do a subject access request to the DBS or do a basic disclosure check on yourself. Or maybe just ask the police or probation you deal(t) with, they might have the info. Or maybe contact someone from Unlock, or check the info section, I'm sure this must be a question that crops up sometimes.

There was no cost for me to appeal. Simply writing a letter and sending it off. Recorded delivery strongly recommended. As stated above, I just expressed remorse, said I had successfully completed a programme and provided the report, made no attempt to minimise what I had done, mentioned my stable home/work life, and stated that my offence was irrelevant to one of the lists so there was no reason to be on it. I haven't got the letter any more but they recommended including any reports from probation etc., if they portray you positively of course. I also made it clear that I had no intent to appeal my inclusion on the other list, to reinforce the fact that I am fully accepting of what I have done and the consequences it caused.

Post Edited (BenS) : 10/12/2015 10:22:16 (GMT+1)

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

Yankee — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

JohnL — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Hi BenS - I'm in the same boat re nature of my caution, however I didn't ever receive a letter about auto barring. It may be due to me moving house, and so I don't know if I'm actually on it or not.

I don't work with children or vulnerable adults, but it's the stigma that gets to me sometimes.

I have no idea how to appeal or to even check if I'm on the lists. Are you able to share what you put in the letter and how you appealed - the cost involved etc?

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

BenS — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Sorry for the late post, only just seen this.

After my conviction I was sent a letter informing me I was barred from both the children and adults lists. It came with clear instructions on how to appeal. I also don't work with vulnerable people and have never had any intention to, and being on such a list would not have any practical effect on me. But like others, it was just the utter shame of being on a list like this when I am not a threat to anyone.

I successfully appealed inclusion on one of these lists by writing a measured and non-emotional letter. I fully accepted responsibility for my offence, the damage it caused and made no attempt to minimise or excuse it. I then stated that the list had no connection whatsoever to my conviction so there was no need/relevance for me to be on it. The ISA agreed and removed me from the list.

Post Edited (BenS) : 03/12/2015 09:26:31 (GMT+1)

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

rme123 — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Hi Forever Changes,

I'm still a bit unsure as to what I should do. How would I know if the DBS barred me on information that was wrong (without actually lodging an appeal)? Catch 22....

I was automatically added following a relevant caution or conviction, but as I understand it, I needed to make representations with 8 weeks of being informed. As I didn't, I now need to wait 10 years. But maybe I'm wrong?

I'm still struggling to grasp the logic of the whole system. I read that you are more likely to be included on the list if the DBS believe you are likely to work with or are likely to work with children or vulnerable adults. I haven't worked with either - although the news report that came out at the time suggested otherwise which makes me suspect I could have been added to the list based on incorrect information. It's also frustrating that I should be added to the list based on an (incorrect) assumption when someone who committed a more serious offence of the same "type" wouldn't be included because of a different interpretation.

Anyway, the whole thing is futile to some extent. It doesn't really have any impact on my day to day life - it's more the impact that it has on my self-esteem.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

forever changes — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

rme123 said...
It doesn't really have any impact on my day to day life - it's more the impact that it has on my self-esteem.

if you can live with it psychologically fair enough. the only time it might come up is on a DBS check if you apply for a job. It still annoys me that the DBS conceded they had used false information (what I call lies) at the UT, and then had the audacity to re-use the false information at the court of appeal s if it was true, just because i wasn't there in person to provide the evidence to refute it, but I'm too scared at the financial cost of losing to risk any challenge besides the heavy emotional investment.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

forever changes — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

rme123 I didn't realise there was a min barred period of 10 yrs for 25+ and shocked they seem to be able to play god and can decide not to review a case. I notice before it mentions that it gives 3 possible preconditions for asking for a review:
you were automatically added following a relevant caution or conviction
you believe DBS has made a legal mistake
DBS barred you based on information that was wrong

Don't you fit any? I won my UT case on the fact that they had made a legal mistake and used erroneous info to reach their decision. May be worth your while reading up on this stuff, look at UT cases reports in this field eg a legal mistake can be that your inclusion was disproportionate. When I appealed to UT and got a copy of their arguments it opened up a minefield of info I used against them eg the PNC info they used was wrong, they'd re-interpreted probation reports to suit themselves etc

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

rme123 — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Link and Forever Changes,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I wanted to appeal when I was first given the opportunity but was told by my probation officer that it wouldn't make a difference (because of the nature of my offence) - only for him to later admit that he knew absolutely nothing about the process and that his advice had just been based on his opinion! As I didn't appeal at the time, I'm pretty sure that I have to wait 10 years before I can appeal again. You can appeal within this time but only if there is some new evidence or significant change in circumstances (the latter of which might apply to me).

Looking at the broader picture - it seems to me to be a rather odd system. As link notes, the details of an offence that lands you on this list will never be filtered from a standard or enhanced DBS check. Given that jobs involve working with children and vulnerable adds ALL conduct standard or enhanced checks, it makes the barred lists kind of redundant!

Anyway, thanks again for the info. I might appeal in the future but will probably wait for the 10 years to be up - that way I should stand a better chance as a significant amount of time will have passed by then. Only five more years to go!....

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

forever changes — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

rme123 said...
Forever Changes, Hope you can shed some light!

Don't know if the procedures have changed. I appealed immediately I was made aware I'd been put on the lists as it was done automatically because of my conviction. I just submitted reasons in writing why i thought I shouldn't be on them. As a result of that I was taken off vulnerable persons list but kept on childrens. i then appealed that decision to upper tribunal and rspresented myself. At that stage you receive the documents (probation assessments, police letters etc) from the ISA upon which they have decided you should stay on it. Believe me their documents give you loads of ammunition to put to the tribunal, if you see what they have it might well be new evidence to you. I won tribunal case and was taken off list but the ISA appealed to court of appeal which I hadnt even realised they could do. I was told by govt solicitor they would seek costs if I contested appeal and they won, and as this would mean a QC and a junior barrister (and solicitor) it could run to 5 or even 6 figures. I then bottled it as I decided my pride wasnt worth losing my life savings for, so I didn't turn up and the ISA won the case in my absence.

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

link — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

I appealed and was removed from one of the lists, so legally I can apply to work with a certain vulnerable criteria however a CRB check would quickly reveal my past and visave no job... Not that it matters to me I was just annoyed I had been automatically excluded from something that had nothing to do with my conviction....IMO these barring lists are pointless in this day of CRB/DBS checks, you don't need a solicitor just do it in writing and put a strong case together for why you should be removed from the baring list, however like I already stated you won't get through an enhanced DBS check without your conviction coming up!

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

rme123 — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Forever Changes,

Are you able to provide a bit more context (without breaching the forum rules of course)? I was also considering appealing against my inclusion on the barred list. I've never worked with children or vulnerable adults nor do I ever plan to. Like you, it's more the stigma of being on that list that upsets me.

Having said that, I committed an offence that meant I was automatically included on the barred list - although at the time I received a letter to say that I could appeal. However, the letter made it very clear that my inclusion on the list would only be reviewed if I had new information or mitigating circumstances (neither of which I had). I also understand that you can only apply to be removed from the list if a certain amount of time has passed since conviction (in my case, I believe that would be 10 years). How long did you wait before you appealed? What kind of support or evidence did you need to supply?

Hope you can shed some light!

ISA Appeal - anyone been there?

forever changes — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:58:05 GMT

Sorry i've only just noticed this, I understand where you're coming from as I'd never worked with children/vulnerable adults nor would ever want to, it was the stigma of being on the lists that irked. I have successfully appealed both without a solicitor. Posts related to this have been deleted by Unlock as I think they breach the forum rules as they are deemed to be challenging a conviction/not accepting your offending.