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Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Harry53 — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:43:55 GMT

This is not something that I had considered doing, but lets say I visit Portugal, then Spain (as I have informed my PPU) but during my travelling decide I want to fly to Italy and then return to Spain as planned? I cannot inform any UK police station while away and it would appear to be a breach of the SOR conditions, but it is not stated anywhere to say if this is illegal or not.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Hola — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:43:55 GMT

[quote]

[b]Simon1983 - 15 Jun 20 4:39 PM[/b]

This gives information on what information is and not shared and when and if it is shared

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/major-investigation-and-public-protection/managing-sexual-offenders-and-violent-offenders/travelling-abroad/

[/quote]

great link, should be very useful for people unsure of where to go and when

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Simon1983 — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 16:39:54 GMT

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JASB — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 16:29:26 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 14 Jun 20 10:12 PM[/b]

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[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:49 AM[/b]

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[b]Yankee - 30 Jan 20 10:19 AM[/b]

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[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:08 AM[/b]

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[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

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[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

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[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

But although we have freedom of movement through the EU (Schengen and non-Schengen), if you are in e.g. Spain and decide on a whim to get a flight to to e.g. Croatia, i.e. EU but non-Schengen, you will trigger the SISII alert at passport control. While you can't be denied entry to Croatia, the alert will reach the PPU, who might then question your honesty, even if you've done nothing illegal. So for the benefit of your relationship with your PPU, I'd advise anyone doing this to stay in Schengen, as then your PPU will not find out if you've flown from the Canary Islands to the Norwegian Arctic and back.

I agree with the sentiment that if the further travel is genuinely not premeditated then I don't think you're doing anything wrong and don't need to notify. And you can't notify anyway as you're not in the UK.
If, on the other hand, you are planning all this beforehand, e.g. notifying travel to Spain with the intent of also going to Portugal but not mentioning this, it's technically a crime, even if it's a thought crime. I would advise not having any paper or electronic trail if you intend to do this.

JASB's quote: "you only have to say where you will stay the first 3 nights out of the UK anyway." In addition to this though, you have to notify of ALL other countries you plan to visit, in addition to the country of arrival. The key word (in the context of this conversation) being "plan".

[/quote]

Hi Bens
I would be interested in knowing where it says you have to notify all other countries you plan on travelling to? That is also an impossible task as how do you find out about "their" equivalent to a PPU - or whatever it will be called - in the areas/countries you may travel to?
The following is from the NARCO site:
https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/travelling-abroad-and-immigration-to-the-uk/travelling-abroad-while-on-the-sex-offenders-register/
It does not mention the aspects you are talking about but it does highlight if going to multi countries you only need to state the first.

As I mentioned; if you wish to maintain and build the confidence and trust your PPU has in you - which I assume is true if they do not stop you travelling - be open about your plans and confirm their processes for possibly changes.

Being polite may I suggest you may be over stating your concerns?

Keep life simple, talk to the PPU about what they need and and that way you will remain offence free.

[/quote]

Hi JASB,

Whenever I notify my PPU of foreign travel, on the form there is a question requesting a list of ALL countries you plan to visit, in addition to the country of arrival. This is separate and additional to the question about the country of arrival.

It's interesting to read the link you provided, and also the law linked by AB2014, which contradicts my experience and I was unaware that this question was not mandatory. On the form the PPU fills in with me when I go abroad, I am always asked this question (as JGUK68 has also alluded to).

I wonder if the form varies by force area. I suppose, as long as all the mandatory questions are on the form, the force/PPU is free to add whatever other questions they like.

I haven't personally experienced the hypothetical situation mentioned by the original poster, so my earlier post is only musings and not facts :-)

[/quote]

The "any other country visited" box is mandatory. The only non-mandatory one is the box asking who you are going to travel with. I always notify ALL countries I intend to visit and ALL accommodations I have booked in advance.
But like mentioned in another post, if you are already abroad you are not under the UK jurisdiction so you do not have to notify anyone of this new unplanned trip to a new destination (but you can email or call them if you like,but it is not mandatory). That is my understanding and what I have been told by my former PPU officer.

[/quote]

I've had to make last minute unscheduled business trips to a couple of non-EU countries when I've already been overseas. I just emailed my PPU to be on the safe side - you're making their lives easier as they would have got a report eventually from Heathrow border control that I had arrived back from a different country to originally notified and would have phoned to check that it wasn't a different trip that hadn't been notified in the first place.

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I would do exactly the same (especially if you are coming back from a different country to the one notified). At the end of the day it is always best keep good relationship and trust with the PPU

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I am now in a long distance relationship but one I know will last. He is in Vietnam and my PPU officer knows this and trusts me. All my porn addiction is a distant bad memory. So when I want to visit him and his family I am happy to tell my PPU but I am terrified that Interpol will issue a Green Card. There is no way they should as Green Cards should only be issued on people who are a high risk to children. Which I am not and never have been.
We just never know until going through immigration. My PPU officer said he would not add any warning comments to the travel data but I will still worry.

I agree that telling the cops I will travel around Europe for a undisclosed time but knowing full well I intent to visit Vietnam, is sly and worries me as I do not want to upset the good relationship I have with the PPU. I just saw this as a way I would by pass the worry of Interpol.

I guess when the time comes next year, I will tell my PPU of my trip and ask his advise. Not being able to visit Vietnam will destroy my relationship and me

[/quote]

Hi
Having traveled around all of SE whilst on bail - and visiting for many years to see my father who lived in Thailand for 10 years - I went by coach from Laos to Vietnam. The administration process is long and deep as you may already know.
The point I wish to make is that they stamp your passport, therefore when you come back your PPU is entitled to look at the passport and will see the stamp. If you have not informed them prior it could lead to many questions especially due to the reputation of the area and any trust could be lost.
I am only raising this point as it is something people forget about due to focusing on the departure.

As ever I am not doubting the strength of your relationship but life turns within a second and emotions make us not think about our decisions, so it would be regrettable for your future to be destroyed again due to a rash decision.
The whole of S.E.A. is a wonderful place to visit and live; not just because their culture believes in forgiveness and compassion, but the natural beauty of its land and seas.

I hope you make the right decision but do not rush.

Cheers

Harry53 — Sun, 14 Jun 2020 22:12:04 GMT

[quote]

[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:49 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Yankee - 30 Jan 20 10:19 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:08 AM[/b]

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[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

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[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

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[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

I would do exactly the same (especially if you are coming back from a different country to the one notified). At the end of the day it is always best keep good relationship and trust with the PPU

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JGUK68 — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:49:41 GMT

[quote]

[b]Yankee - 30 Jan 20 10:19 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:08 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

I would do exactly the same (especially if you are coming back from a different country to the one notified). At the end of the day it is always best keep good relationship and trust with the PPU

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Yankee — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:19:04 GMT

[quote]

[b]JGUK68 - 30 Jan 20 10:08 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

AB2014 — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:16:43 GMT

[quote]

[b]Yankee - 30 Jan 20 10:09 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 26 Jan 20 10:26 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Both the law and the Home Office guidance to it refer to 'where the offender holds the information'. That is, it is an offence not to notify prior to leaving the UK when you know you will be travelling to multiple countries but you cannot notify what you do not know...

If the situation changes and your notified information is now inaccurate or incomplete, the guidance requires you to notify the changes in person to an authorised UK police station.

Unfortunately, there is nothing in either the legal text or the guidance to address the scenario where you didn't plan to visit a 2nd or more countries but decided to once you had left the UK. I would find it hard to believe that the Police-CPS would charge in that situation and that a good lawyer would not be able to defend your position.

The bigger issue is around trust with the PPU - if they found out, it may change their risk assessment of you and make them more likely to issue an Interpol green notice in the future if they felt you were only notifying a trip to an EU hub airport and then flying off to a non-EU destination.

[/quote]

The trust thing is a very important point, as these are the people who are supervising your life in all its many facets, so it's best not to go out of your way to disappoint/antagonise them. As Eric Cartman said in South Park, "You will respect my authoritah!"

Even so, an offence is committed when you break the law, not when you disappoint PPU. If the law says only the first country, then that is the requirement, but it makes sense to be as open as possible with PPU.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Yankee — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:09:37 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 26 Jan 20 10:26 PM[/b]

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JGUK68 — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 10:08:46 GMT

[quote]

[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

AB2014 — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:44:15 GMT

[quote]

[b]BenS - 30 Jan 20 9:15 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

From my experience of their forms, some questions are marked "(Not mandatory)". So, they know we don't have to supply the information, but they're making a point of asking anyway. The bottom line is that the law specifies what has to be notified, so anything else can be considered a favour to the police. Seriously.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

BenS — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:15:49 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JASB — Wed, 29 Jan 2020 15:21:12 GMT

[quote]

[b]JGUK68 - 28 Jan 20 4:16 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 28 Jan 20 3:05 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

I think BenS is saying that you have to tell your local PPU where you're going, not the police of the destination countries. The details are laid out in the law here, and it specifically says "the country (or, if there is more than one, the first country) to which he will travel and his point of arrival (determined in accordance with the regulations) in that country". So, the law says that if you're going to more than one country, you only need to tell them about the first one. It does refer to regulations that may be made by the Secretary of State, but I'm not aware of anything extra.

On the subject of PPU, it is better to have a good relationship with them, so it might help to give them all the info, but there is no requirement in the law. I'd have to say that BenS knows his stuff, he's walked the walk and isn't one to worry unnecessarily, so maybe this is about how the law may have changed over time.

[/quote]

The foreign travel notification form asks indeed the first destination point of arrival but also asks details of ANY other subsequent destination. So, I usually give a full list of destinations and accommodations (if known).
Once I asked my PPU "what if I am staying abroad for say one month or two and I want to travel from there to a third country?do I have to notify you before that trip happens (when I am already abroad)?". His reply was "no, you do not have to. But if you want ,you can do it". Not sure if that can be considered a general rule or it depends on the PPU

[/quote]

Hi
I mentioned early my experience with the Met Police when trying to inform them of my travels. Not a good one BUT I would always discuss them and be open by - in writing - informing them there could be diversions which I would be happy to discus with them on my return if necessary.
As most of us say, our relationship is too important to mishandle and possibly creating a thinking / environment of mistrust.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JASB — Wed, 29 Jan 2020 15:16:04 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 28 Jan 20 3:05 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

I think BenS is saying that you have to tell your local PPU where you're going, not the police of the destination countries. The details are laid out in the law here (sorry, forgot the link before), and it specifically says "the country (or, if there is more than one, the first country) to which he will travel and his point of arrival (determined in accordance with the regulations) in that country". So, the law says that if you're going to more than one country, you only need to tell them about the first one. It does refer to regulations that may be made by the Secretary of State, but I'm not aware of anything extra.

On the subject of PPU, it is better to have a good relationship with them, so it might help to give them all the info, but there is no requirement in the law. I'd have to say that BenS knows his stuff, he's walked the walk and isn't one to worry unnecessarily, so maybe this is about how the law may have changed over time.

[/quote]

Hi
You know I wasn't being offensive towards or about his experience. :)
The law as you state is what I was - attempting - to highlight and so certain concerns mentioned could be ignored.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JGUK68 — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 16:16:54 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 28 Jan 20 3:05 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

AB2014 — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 15:05:39 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 28 Jan 20 2:06 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JASB — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:06:36 GMT

[quote]

[b]BenS - 28 Jan 20 10:35 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

BenS — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 10:35:45 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jan 20 8:59 AM[/b]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

[/quote]

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

JASB — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 15:29:51 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 26 Jan 20 10:26 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Hi
Prior to sentencing I pleaded guilty and signed the SOR - I had already been on bail for 12 mths and knew I would not be sentenced for another 10 mths at least..
My probation said they was happy I could go abroad as I had just spent 2.5 mths backpacking SE Asia: whilst on bail and before my plea.
I was staying in London so went to the local police station to give them the at least 7 days notice and basically asked what the process was for notifying any changes but they did not know.
Every day I called to ask if they had found out. No was the answer
Two days before flying the Met Police PPU visited me, took my passport and took me to court for either me to be put on remand or authorise the keeping of my passport. There case was based on their saying I was only calling to build up a protective case incase anything went wrong and I was going to do a runner. _ bear in mind my words above about SE Asia.
I informed the Judge of my facts and though he authorise they keep my passport, he told them to sort out their processes and thank me for being truthful. That is the truth gents.
The gist of my story is:
1) be open with your plans,
2) you only have to say where you will stay the first 3 nights out of the UK anyway - though I did hear some local PPU's had their own rules.
3) i am sure you have nothing to hide so to keep on the good side of your PPU be honest and say your plans may change and do they wish you to "drop an email" if they change.

In the end the way you handle the communication between you and your PPU, and their actions afterwards, would at least give you knowledge on how they view you as a risk.

Good luck with whatever you decide and lets us know.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

AB2014 — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 08:59:36 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harmless - 26 Jan 20 10:59 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 26 Jan 20 10:26 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Good question.

If the plans for Italy are made after your departure from the UK there's no need to have informed them in advance while in the UK.

So you can inform them of your first port of call and then make it up as you go along.

"I'm going to Spain, then maybe somewhere else". The fact that Italy's in Shengen (open borders) makes the matter even simpler.

[/quote]

It's not just about the Schengen Zone - UK passport holders have freedom of movement throughout the EU for now, whether the country is in the Schengen Zone or not.

RE: Travelling with SOR : What if you are abroad and decide to vary the countries visited ?

Harmless — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 22:59:01 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 26 Jan 20 10:26 PM[/b]

[/quote]