theForum » Other areas » Relationships » Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

DekaRed — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:10:44 GMT

I have spent time in prison for sexual offences, and am on the register with a SHOPO. One of the conditions says "not allowed to be around children, unless their parent or guardian is there"

I am currently very friendly with a lady, who is a grandmother. All her kids are around 40, and she occasionally plays host to her grandchildren who range from 3-21. I have met some of her grown-up children, who know about my friendliness with their mother.

I have disclosed to the lady in question, and she supports me fully. My question is, is that as far as the disclosures need to go? She may be completely understanding and supportive, but if I also have to disclose to her children, it may cause huge problems.

We have not entered into a relationship yet for a number of reasons, and this is something we are both quite concerned with. If I was to ever be around the grandchildren, would their parents need to know about me, or is their grandmother knowing sufficient? It is unlikely I would ever be around them without the grandmother being present.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Mr W — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 16:10:44 GMT

Hi Punter99, I agree with most of what you say, PPUs are in a tough position, but there seems to be more arse covering at the misery of the ex-offender than progression. I've yet to find a legitimate channel to call them out especially when they have an SJW-esque mode, and as that Lancs police officer said the other day on an unrelated matter: "Who are they going to believe" (he apologised). I know you've talked about disclosure generally here, but how did you find disclosing to friends etc what were their reactions? post-conviction etc
===
Hi Khafka,
I was shocked re: lack of knowledge around doxxing because the removal of the information, similar to the problem of revenge porn, can be a nightmare. Once it's out there, it's out there and one's personal details are critical in terms of feeling safe in your own home. Especially when some go one step further, with phone numbers etc. I too was doxxed, thankfully only social media stuff, but it certainly wasn't info that was "publicly available" they had to really search to find it. But it's an important point about why moving forward is made more difficult, when just one person links new name with old in one of those stupid groups then it's all over, an undeserved 'second wave' of punishment and yes, don't get me started on vigilante groups.

Overall, the question must be asked of rehabilitation of these offences, what does true rehabilitation look like in our current society when disclosure is SO debilitating.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

punter99 — Sat, 25 Apr 2020 10:54:51 GMT

When it comes to disclosure, two things strike me. The first is that it almost feels like there is a pressure to disclose, coming from probation, the PPU etc. on a 'just in case' basis, rather than a 'need to know' basis.

Second, disclosure is not something to be taken lightly. This is highly sensitive information, which can wreck lives, if it's revealed inappropriately. When the police disclose to someone, that person is made to sign a form, promising not to reveal the information to anybody else. If they do, it's an offence in itself. The police also have to fill in forms themselves, stating why disclosure was necessary, what the risk was and why disclosure was the best way to address that risk. None of this happens though, if the offender discloses that info voluntarily.

So what seems to happen a lot, is that the offender gets bullied into self disclosure. The PPU will threaten them, saying that if they don't disclose to X, then the PPU will disclose to them instead. That isn't always an idle threat, but it does solve a lot of problems for the PPU, if the offender discloses 'voluntarily', since the PPU can't then be blamed, should the person who has been disclosed then go on to tell other people, and it gets out onto social media, or if an employer finds out and the offender loses their job.

When there are kids involved, things get a lot more simple for the PPU, because it's easy for them to say disclosure was necessary, to safeguard a child. That may be true, or it may just be a convenient excuse for doing a full disclosure. But then, what happens is that the PPU will stretch that 'safeguarding' excuse, further and further, to drag in more and more people. E.g. the offender's wife works as a teacher, so they disclose to the school where she works, even though she has done nothing wrong, and she then loses her job. Or, the offender's wife's, uncle's brother's cousin, just happened to be visiting the house, went the PPU came round and they find out he has a kid, so now he has to be disclosed to, even though he lives miles away and the offender has never even met his kids.

When it comes to adults, things are usually a bit more straightforward, because you don't always have the PPU on your back, insisting on disclosure, but there will still be pressure. Disclosure to employers or landlords is not compulsary, even though some PPU seem to think they have a right to do it anyway. For example if an offender is living in a block of flats, and some of the residents have children. Do they all need to know about his conviction? Does the landlord have to be told? These are judgement calls for the PPU and the answers won't always be consistent. Same with employment, the rules only say you must disclose if the employer asks, but if they don't ask, you don't have to volunteer those details, unless it's working with kids or vulnerable adults.

The PPU appear to make up extra rules sometimes, along the lines of; there might be the slightest possibility of accidentally meeting a child during the job, so that's a risk, and either you can't take the job, or we have to disclose to the employer. Surely that is what the DBS checks are for? I heard of one guy who was turned down for a job at Greggs, because children sometimes come into the shop. We all know that if you walk down the street, you might pass by a child, so is that a risk that needs safeguarding? Some PPU would probably say yes, but they know it's just not possible to enforce it, because the offender would effectively be under house arrest and the PPU would be subject to a legal challenge for exceeding their authority. But what about public spaces like parks? Kids go to parks, but so do adults. I know of someone who was sitting in a park, minding his own business, when a kid approached him. He told the PPU about it and was effectively accused of 'luring' the child towards him. He hadn't breached his SHPO, so there was nothing they could do to him, but they still made him feel like he had done something illegal, by just being in the park.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

khafka — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:35:25 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 22 Apr 20 4:14 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]JASB - 22 Apr 20 3:21 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 21 Apr 20 11:37 PM[/b]

When I've had a face-to-face discussion with people there has been more understanding(?) than those who found out through the press. I had planned to tell SOME people after court but I didn't think I'd be in the press, that screwed up SO much more than it had to for me (and STILL does thanks to Google), all for some page impressions online. Some of my oldest friends read the newspapers and didn't even give me a chance to talk to them, blocked me on every social media etc and wouldn't respond when I got in touch.

As a first time offender, I had absolutely no clue about disclosure and was mortified when I first heard about me having to voluntarily tell people what I did. Even now I just about understand it, but it turns my stomach and I think it does far more damage than good.
I also didn't realise that a couple of my friends HAD to cut off contact with me because of their job! Friendships were ending one-by-one at the worst time of my life when I needed them. It was horrific. But hey, it doesn't matter because I brought it on myself, right? Well, no, because I'm a human being and your head can only take in so much at once. On top of losing my job, losing my relationship, losing my house, losing the many social circles I was part of. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's too much!

Thanks to the Google effect, those that a) don't need to be disclosed to and b) that I chose not to tell - on some occasions have found out themselves via Google or gossip+Google.
So that feels that I have to just put up with being confronted by anyone at any time and have to go through it all again and again. Each time doesn't get any easier because of the amount of shock that comes with what is such a secretive crime in the first place. Then, in some cases people *don't want to hear* any answers anyway because 1) they're usually in shock and 2) the answer to 'why' isn't a nice and simple one easy sentence to understand.
I'm very open and honest when I discuss things and always answer any questions they have in the most sensitive way I can.
Something that surprised me was that the number of female friends, even those with kids, have been more supportive than the number of male friends. But that's a very small sample.
Some people waited a while before giving me the chance to talk to them and I've managed to salvage a small number of friendships, but are things the same? No.
Some have phased me out too after a conversation. They're unavailable to meet for a coffee, then unavailable for this... that... and the other and don't make an effort to reschedule.
Some said they needed some time before talking to me and... they're still taking that time and it's now been a few years. So, it's tough to know whether to speak to them or not.
The reactions just vary too much to even try and predict who will react in which way and frankly I'm sick of playing roulette now and I just want to get on with my life.

I sometimes get - "Isn't it easier just to tell everyone and be done with it?" No, because of roulette of reactions. I've found one of the hardest to deal with - silent treatment/no reaction after a conversation -leaves you wanting a reaction more, any reaction, just so you can understand their response. Then the addition of mutual friends feeling different to others etc etc it gets so messy.

I didn't go to jail and my probation is long finished but I still have to wait years and years for the SHPO to end to become 'unspent' so this can all end?! It's a farce. I understand it but it just doesn't work in reality because, especially in the current white-hot climate, the stigma is too big of a barrier when you tiptoe anywhere near that label I refuse to use.

Hope this helps and look forward to seeing other responses.

[/quote]

Hi
You know we have openly talked previously on many topics and so know I talk from a "positive self help" perspective. In brief you must now start to fully concentrate on believing yourself; and so appreciating all the qualities you have. I often say that you must forgive and understand yourself first before intentionally trying to appease the "whims of others". Yes I say whims because I am in no doubt that previous to your offence, "others" have instigated comments or acted in a manner that was inappropriate, and with disregard for the subjective morals of "societies". Now they wish to stand as if they have always defended those "morals" and so distract "society" from remembering their own mistakes. This stance is always accompanied by their chastising (bullying) and alienation (hiding from or denying knowledge of) for the sole purpose of maintaining their "status" or "like" in society; facebook / twitter world. Remember you have found and lost friends/relationships prior to your offence and survived; you will do so now.

It is in my experience that when we first comprehend the consequences of our actions; no matter how severe, we are like a child fighting for the love and attention of a unresponsive parent or partner. We plead, yell - though sometimes silently, become paranoid about others feelings to us or with just simple everyday human interactions. This is natural due to the emotional trauma we are / have been in the middle of.

Have you ever asked why the PPU do not announce their visits or generally ask the same type of questions as in your interview when arrested? It is not necessarily because they hope to catch you out or doing something, it is because they want you to revisit the emotional trauma of the arrest and interview! It is your self belief that ensures you manage and turn these emotions to present the viewer's perception of you in a positive way. As your confidence grows this will become easier for you yet more challenging to those trying to compare you to the perceived character described in their file.

Consider now that instead of the scenario described being the PPU, it is someone you meet; be they known or not known previously to you. You will be asked questions by either type of meeting. I repeat my words "It is your self belief that ensures you manage and turn these emotions to present the viewer's perception of you in a positive way. As your confidence grows this will become easier for you yet more challenging to those trying to compare you to a perceived character".

Use the challengers you have recently been through, the lessons learned from the way you have approached making declarations. Consider if you; because of emotional trauma, disclose to easily or provide unnecessary details; after all you are not on trial. You understand your conditions so plan your social and relationship lives with them in mind BUT NOT derived from them.

Only you know the challenges you have actually overcome since your offence. The decisions - right or wrong - you have made and learned from. Your psychological self control mechanisms have developed or been enhanced from the 101 punishing scenarios you have endured every day. Celebrate that knowledge by concluding each day with praise to yourself for your successes! Then each morning wake; not focusing on the errors of yesterday as they cannot be put right, but with excitement for the unknown adventures the day will bring and the manner you will challenge and surpass them because of what you know and the belief in yourself.

[/quote]

Completely agree and thank you for the words, I've been told numerous times I need to believe in myself. It's just not happening pretty much because of disclosure and Google. I'm trying to build up my own thing under a different name and I'm proud of the fact I've built up what I have so far... but I'm terrified that ONE public outing on social media, or forced by ppu, or gossip/Google, will once again bring everything crashing down and I don't think I can live through all that again. A random example; My probation officer had never heard of 'doxxing' and that's the problem, I feel so many in CJS/probation/ppus etc don't understand what are very real "21st Century" problems. Remove those walking-on-tightrope possibilities and I can get on with my life but because of this stupid SHPO leaving me unspent for years, any confidence is increasingly fragile rather than strengthening. I don't want to detract from the subject of this thread, but I will take some time to digest more what you've written here, thanks.

[/quote]

"My probation officer had never heard of 'doxxing'..."

Either was the officer in charge of me. I got doxxed a few times due to my conviction. The paper report, my face, my full name, where I worked and my bloody home address in some occasions, not just the street that was posted in the paper but the full house number and everything (!!!) were constantly being posted on other forums I frequent tying them to my username.

I knew exactly who it was as we were friends prior to everything so I was aware of their username and reported them to the officer in charge expressing my concerns about it - He was totally unaware and had never heard of Doxxing before so I even had to explain to him how it is totally illegal and even showed and reference the 3 main crimes it breaches being the Computer Misuse Act, Protection From Harassment Act, and the Data Protection Act. Nothing ever came of it.

I then actually just reported the person to the police directly. Again, the officer on the phone didn't really think it was all that serious and "made a note of it". No incident number, nothing.

The essential stalking of me around the internet and harassment continued so I did one thing I'm not proud of and certainly don't condone but I was at my wits end. I went to their house, threatened to cave their head in if they didn't stop. Now, I'm not a violent guy by any means but I am quite big and can look intimidating.

Anyway. It has all stopped. Not had a peep from this person anywhere since January so it obviously worked.

---------------

In answer to your other post Mr W. -

Did you manage to speak to any friend who didn't see the press first?
There was one friend I confided in when it all went down and was a tremendous support throughout the whole thing emotionally and even helped me slightly financially in the beginning with regards to a solicitor (I've since paid them back). I was arrested in February 2019 and my name hit the papers in December 2019. I had a few court dates during that time for various things and my name was nowhere to be found but I guess my luck ran out! So yeah, throughout this ordeal this person was superb. I honestly had no idea how they would've reacted and taken it but I needed to speak to someone about it and I certainly didn't want to approach my parents so I took the gamble. We have since drifted apart since the publicity hit which I offered them a few times basically a "no hard feelings if this all goes to pot. If you want to save face and not be seen I totally understand". Eventually that offer was taken up. I don't think they'd bad mouth me or anything, more just not get involved.

A few (very few) close friends from work reached out to actually find out what happened/what was going on as the paper report was pretty vague and still remains pretty vague and light on what I feel are pertinent details and was worded in a way which makes it sound a lot worse (but that's a whole different conversation).

The ones that did reach out didn't seem overly judgmental. More interested, confused and intrigued by it all and how it didn't resemble me in the slightest. I answered their questions honestly and advised what I reckon the outcome will be (all things considered my sentencing was better than I anticipated). They've since faded into the background. I do think about messaging them sometimes just to see how they're doing, the COVID situation is a good reason to I guess!, but.. I dunno.

Did you see any differences in regard to how people found out? For example, people you spoke to versus people who found out from the press?
Not really, at least not as drastic as you might think. I've always been a somewhat solitary guy and didn't surround myself with a large entourage of people. I was more a quality over quantity guy when it came to friends. I haven't really seen almost anyone face-to-face since it become public aside from one other friend who honestly didn't care about the whole thing. He still sees me as me, the guy he's known for a decade. He sometimes makes little jokes about it which some might say is in bad taste but I don't take it like that and find it funny. Before the COVID thing I was round at his and we were just chatting/joking about and he jokingly asked about when I die if he can have my stuff. "Well, without all your hard drives..."

We have basically just carried on as if this never happened, which is good, I feel.

Where I worked was Ground Zero for everything, for the most part. Rumours and stories like this spread like wildfire in that place and they love a good scandal so I can imagine a lot of them practically fighting over each other to break the news. Most of them have some pretty horrendous skeletons in their closet in that place and I wasn't really friends was the vast majority so I wasn't too bothered by it all in truth.

Everyone aside from my friend mentioned earlier found out via the press. I only actually spoke to a handful of people after it all kicked off publicly. I deleted my Facebook account (for obvious reasons) so I do think more might have maybe reached out via that to either quiz me or throw abuse. Most other friends I've noticed have just blanked me out of existence - which I don't' have a problem with - when I go onto my XBox or whatever and find they're no longer on my friends list, or I've been removed from a WhatsApp group. Things like that.

And do you feel you could have saved more friendships?
This is a tricky one. The best answer I can give is possibly. But then the follow up would be "to what end though?". I feel the people that have reached out to me, stuck by me and still speak to me now don't care about public opinion and judge things on their own merits. The ones who haven't reached out I don't feel will ever have been won over. Or at least to make things continue normally. One of my friends has a daughter, she's about 6 now. The three of us used to go into town sometimes to do some shopping and just hang out and stuff. Can you imagine what he'd be feeling walking round town with his daughter and me in tow? I don't blame him in the slightest, to be honest.

I think for most people it isn't so much their thoughts and feelings on it all but the public thought on it. A person is smart, caring, and capable of rational thought. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals.

Especially in the last decade or so my crime isn't exactly a sexy or stylish crime. It's the lowest of the low. Nobody in their right mind would want to be seen dead hanging around with a paedophile for fear of ridicule and/or worse. Until the public perception and laws are changed this will continue to happen to everyone. The wording of the law alone caused some problems which I needed to clear up with some people the in famous - "Creating or allowing to be created..." portion. A lot of people don't understand and instantly assume I'm in my living room videotaping myself abusing children - which obviously wasn't the case.

How do we change perception? I honestly don't know. I think a good step would be to change how the media handles and reports on the crimes. Another would be sorting out the "vigilante" groups who do nothing more than terrorize and build an echo chamber to massage their own self worth and egos. They have caused issues throughout the country time and time again, the police even talk about it constantly how they do more harm than good. So why are they still allowed to operate? My local vigilante group tends to harass everyone they've reported on.

There was someone with a similar crime to myself they "reported" on about 2 years ago. About once a week or so you'd get pictures of them posted by the admins that have clearly been following this person around just trying to go about their business. One interesting take was when they were in a supermarket and had a video of the guy going off at them for following him around etc. and getting quite angry and borderline violent. The usual captions followed "This man is allowed out in public! He's a danger blah blah".

What they failed to mention or show was they had actually been following him around the shop with their camera harassing him shouting "paedo" at him, warning anyone walking past him in the aisles, especially if they had children, all that good stuff. Which then obviously came to boiling point with him, which is totally understandable. Someone had recorded that footage on their own phone after seeing them doing it a couple of times. They posted their video showing all this and calling them out on their page to then be banned and told to take the video down and were berated in the comments being a "paedosympathiser" etc. all for just trying to give some context. They later had a post mentioning how the group reported them to the police for posting their faces and stuff without their permission and essentially forced them to take the video down. Whether that last part with the police is true or not is up for debate but that is what they reported.

The vigilante groups video is still up and they still maintain their usual antics.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Mr W — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:14:05 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 22 Apr 20 3:21 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 21 Apr 20 11:37 PM[/b]

[/quote]

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

JASB — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:21:58 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 21 Apr 20 11:37 PM[/b]

[/quote]

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Mr W — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:14:26 GMT

[quote]

[b]khafka - 22 Apr 20 5:25 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 21 Apr 20 11:37 PM[/b]

[/quote]

My experience has been pretty similar to yourself!

It was the local paper that basically made everything crumble down which then made its way to your average vigilante group who think they're doing good in the world when if anything they do more damage. The comments from complete strangers on their page bothered me slightly at first. With all the threats "Oh if I could be locked in a room with him for 1 hour he'd pray to get out!" bugger off, Karen. Let's be honest, you wouldn't really do anything. But I couldn't really care less about them now. It's just an initial knee-jerk reaction they all tend to have as they collectively foam at the mouth for the next scandal.

Pretty much all my friends have vanished off the face of the earth which I've accepted and come to terms with.

This lockdown thing I find is actually a small blessing and came at a good time. It gives people a good reason to not be out and about, there is financial support (having lost my job this is much appreciated and didn't exist a month ago).

I've kind of agreed with myself that it isn't something I'm ever going to pro-actively offer up to people - Everyone who I care about knows about it. If anyone asks me about it then of course I'll answer any questions they have.

I have no fear walking about in public (my initial outing to the public was about 5 months ago and nothing has happened). I have no fear of Joe Public, one thing that does weigh on me though is running in some people I know and them causing or at least attempting to cause a scene. I have zero issues just ignoring that person as if I've never met them in my life but you can't control other people's actions.

[/quote]

[quote] Pretty much all my friends have vanished off the face of the earth which I've accepted and come to terms with. [/quote]
That's sad and, of course, I completely empathise. Did you manage to speak to any friend who didn't see the press first? Did you see any differences in regard to how people found out? For example, people you spoke to versus people who found out from the press? And do you feel you could have saved more friendships?

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

khafka — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:25:18 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 21 Apr 20 11:37 PM[/b]

[/quote]

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Mr W — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:37:57 GMT

When I've had a face-to-face discussion with people there has been more understanding(?) than those who found out through the press. I had planned to tell SOME people after court but I didn't think I'd be in the press, that screwed up SO much more than it had to for me (and STILL does thanks to Google), all for some extra pennies for ad revenue for papers. Some of my oldest friends read the newspapers and didn't even give me a chance to talk to them, blocked me on every social media etc and wouldn't respond when I got in touch.

As a first time offender, I had absolutely no clue about disclosure and was mortified when I first heard about me having to voluntarily tell people what I did. Even now I just about understand it, but it turns my stomach and I think it does far more damage than good.
I also didn't realise that a couple of my friends HAD to cut off contact with me because of their job! Friendships were ending one-by-one at the worst time of my life when I needed them. It was horrific. But hey, it doesn't matter because I brought it on myself, right? Well, no, because I'm a human being and your head can only take in so much at once. On top of losing my job, losing my relationship, losing my house, losing the many social circles I was part of. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's too much!

Thanks to the Google effect, those that a) don't need to be disclosed to and b) that I chose not to tell - on some occasions have found out themselves via Google or gossip+Google.
So that feels that I have to just put up with being confronted by anyone at any time and have to go through it all again and again. Each time doesn't get any easier because of the amount of shock that comes with what is such a secretive crime in the first place. Then, in some cases people *don't want to hear* any answers anyway because 1) they're usually in shock and 2) the answer to 'why' isn't a nice and simple easy-to-understand sentence.
I'm very open and honest when I discuss things and always answer any questions they have in the most sensitive way I can.
Something that surprised me was that the number of female friends, even those with kids, have been more supportive than the number of male friends. But that's a very small sample.
Some people waited a while before giving me the chance to talk to them and I've managed to salvage a small number of friendships, but are things the same? No.
Some have phased me out too after a conversation. They're unavailable to meet for a coffee, then unavailable for this... that... and the other and don't make an effort to reschedule.
Some said they needed some time before talking to me and... they're still taking that time and it's now been a few years. So, it's tough to know whether to speak to them or not.
The reactions just vary too much to even try and predict who will react in which way and frankly I'm sick of playing roulette now and I just want to get on with my life.

I sometimes get - "Isn't it easier just to tell everyone and be done with it?" No, because of roulette of reactions and inevitable gossip. Even if people say they won't tell, they will at least tell someone, that's not a criticism as I understand they might need to talk about it to someone else, but the more people know, the more people spread it with: "Oh, but I only told..."
I've found one of the hardest to deal with - silent treatment/no reaction after a conversation -leaves you wanting a reaction more, any reaction, just so you can understand their response. Then the addition of mutual friends feeling different to others etc etc it gets so messy.

I didn't go to jail and my probation is long finished but I still have to wait years and years for the SHPO to end to become 'unspent' so this can all end?! It's a farce. I understand it but it just doesn't work in reality because, especially in the current white-hot climate, the stigma is too big of a barrier when you tiptoe anywhere near that label I refuse to use.

Hope this helps and look forward to seeing other responses.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Deb S — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:23:46 GMT

Hi All

Hope that you're all keeping safe and well during lock-down. Really good to see continuing activity on theForum.

This thread is quite timely as one of the things I'd like to do this year is to put together some new information on disclosing convictions to friends, family, partners etc. We already have a page on relationships, children and social services which covers disclosure to a new partner if you've been convicted of a sexual offence and I'd like this information to be a bit broader, covering disclosure of any type of offence to old/new friends, family etc.

So, I'm looking for some help with this.

Have you disclosed your conviction to friends?
If not, what stopped you?
If you did disclose, what worked? What didn't.

Would be great to hear from as many of you as possible.

Keep well and keep posting.

Debs

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

JASB — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:29:18 GMT

[quote]

[b]DekaRed - 9 Apr 20 5:16 PM[/b]

I apologise, the extract I posted was from memory. I have the document in front of me now. It reads

The defendant is prohibited from "Having any form of contact or communication with any child under the age of 16 years unless that child is in the presence of their parent or guardian, save for such contact as may be deemed unavoidable in everyday life."

Occasionally though, PPU will ask about the groups I attend, and whether any children are present. They aren't, but they have said in the past that it may cause issues if children were present. As in I may have to stop attending. But surely those children would be in the presence of their parent or guardian, and so I fail to see the issue.

[/quote]

Hi
You will be reading very supportive advice and encouragement which will hopefully allow you to understand your predicament is a common one so you are not alone.
Quite rightly you should consider and possibly mix the suggestions together to help you decide.

As I mentioned, a lot depends on your PPU and their policies no matter your relationship with them. By that I mean they may appreciate the way you are managing the contact but may possibly still investigate to be compliant with their Force's procedures. It is not our place to be critical of their procedures but we do have to consider; in our scenarios, who they are primarily responsible for and to.

In the end, no matter your decision I am sure you will make the right one.

I will conclude with a quote I heard recently.[quote]Lies are a debt on the quality of your life. Every debt has to be repaid at sometime. Remember though, the longer it takes the higher the interest.[/quote]

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

punter99 — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:13:58 GMT

I think JASB has covered most of it. What I would add, is that the police guidance on disclosure says it should only be considered, if there is no other, reasonable way, to address the potential risk. Too often, I think the PPU see disclosure as their first option, not their last option.

From a practical point of view, why not agree with the lady, that anytime the grandchildren are due to visit, you will make yourself scarce. That way there can be no chance of being left alone with them, even for a few minutes. Tell the PPU that this is the agreement you have come to and that they are welcome to speak to her, to confirm you are not lying. They are going to do that anyway, but by offering it to them, it makes it clear you have nothing to hide.

That seems like a reasonable way to address the risk, without a need to disclose to anyone else. If the relationship gets more serious, then it may be harder to explain why you are 'elsewhere', every time the children come round, but disclosing to other people now, isn't proportionate to the risk.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

Eddy — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:47:38 GMT

Hi DekaRed

Congratulations on having the confidence to disclose to your new lady friend, it is lovely to hear you have found somebody who is so supportive.

I am sure your dilemma of whether to make further disclosure to her grown children is causing you much anxiety as is the thought of possible involvement by PPU.

My question to you would be - how is your relationship with PPU? My own personal experience has been that they are generally supportive of forming new relationships (how else are we supposed to re-enter normal society) but equally have a duty of disclosure where and when appropriate to ensure safeguarding at all times. You have been open and honest with your new lady friend who is presumably also aware of the conditions of your SHPO. As such she is in a strong position to act as a protective factor where grandchildren are concerned.

My advice would be to consider arranging a private meeting between yourself, your new lady friend, the Probation Service and PPU to discuss things, this may sound scary but with the correct support you may be able to find a balance that works for all.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on,

Eddy

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

JASB — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:30:25 GMT

[quote]

[b]DekaRed - 9 Apr 20 5:16 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Hi, thanks for the clarification.

I am on your side so please think about that when reading my words.

(a) You say you are just friendly with the lady so it seems you are at the start of a relationship. She accepts your past and I assume she is aware of your restrictions. This being the case do ensure she understands your concerns and so wish to remain distant from her family until you are sure of the future together. However even in this scenario I am not sure what the PPU would say in regard to disclosing to her children etc. Gut feeling is that would say disclose.
(b) I assume the PPU do not know you are in a relationship or have talked about the possibility? If they have, have they discussed possible family structure and their concerns?
(c) [quote]they have said in the past that it may cause issues if children were present.[/quote] Take this as their informing you of their view and so provide a hint to the answer you are searching for.
(d) [quote]But surely those children would be in the presence of their parent or guardian[/quote]. Two points. (a) Many children are left with grandparents or extended family and yes your lady could be described as a guardian but, I think that disclosure would not be dismissed in cases like ours. Reason for is that you all could be watching TV and your lady goes to the toilet or kitchen. In my scenario; I mentioned above, that was a point put to me.
(e) you are looking at this through the logic of a defence and they are looking at it from a view of suspicion! No matter your thoughts about yourself they will always do that, therefore always think about it from their view. The old saying plan for the worse.
(f) Remember in scenario the PPU told you to act, how would they report that in your records? Denial of offence?

Ask yourself this. How would you feel if you did not disclose but the PPU contacted them or forced you to do so. You could be accepted and that would be perfect BUT, the PPU would / could then contact the social services so would that change their thoughts? If so the pressure / anger could then be placed on your lady by the family because of the repercussions they endure In brief "you are making them a victim" so would your relationship last. Also if the relationship ended badly would the family discuss it with their friends etc? How would that be managed.

I would suggest asking your lady what her thoughts are, but in the end no matter the different scenarios we consider, I am sure her relationship with her family would be a priority over yours; unfortunately.
I will finish as I started, your main priority should be your own protection; especially emotional. It may turn out that a decision to disclose gives the results as you desire; who can tell.
In the end you have to minimse the issues you have to face due to a past mistake.

Support is always here, even if not in the words you hope to hear.

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

DekaRed — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:16:55 GMT

RE: Possible future step-grandchildren... who do I need to disclose to about SHOPO and register?

JASB — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:44:30 GMT

[quote]

[b]DekaRed - 9 Apr 20 1:58 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Hi

Thank you for not only being honest to the lady but also trying to ensure your personal future is protected.

I am on the SOR and SOPO - Paying for sexual services - and have 2 conditions relating to notifications to parents/gaurdians of a female under 16.

I am not sure if the wording you used is an accurate extract as it seems to suggest you do not have to tell anyone but do have to ensure the parents/gaurdians is present?
from my expereince I would of thought you would of have to inform them.

Example, a couple of years ago I had a relationship with a lady, no children BUT her cousin had a son. I disclosed to the lady in my relationship and, unknown to me, she told her cousin who had no issues. I informed my PPU and they had no issues as he was male, I was low risk etc etc.

However the relationship ended and I moved regions. My new PPU asked about the cousin and my relationship / suppervision of the boy. Much to my dismay and even though my SOPO states "females" they contacted the social services of my old region and started an investigation. Though I knew my conduct was beyond reproach their actions caused distress to the family and especially the boy as he had no idea what was happening.
The final straw was they did not even have the decentancy to reply to them or me about their conclusions.

The reason I am providing the above information is for numerious reasons but above all it shows that no matter what, you have to protect yourself first and as best as you can.
If your condition suggests or there is any ambuguity at all you would be best to disclose. Your partner sees your character and if she is willing, ask her to be there when you disclose. Ensure you do that in a thoughtful and not sympathy seeking manner. If this appears to create a rift between your partner and her family then; personally, I would end the relationship so not to cause harm to your partners family relationships.

You will recieve many replies but you have to remember the replies will be opinions only. You have the documents infront of you so again to protect yourself.
Either (1) get legal advice: solicitor, probation office or PPU. In regard to the last two you could say you are just enquiring for clarification purposes as that is down to your relationship with them. You would probably get follow up questions but once you declare the relationship you would anyway.
(2) Protect yourself by disclosing. This way at least you would understand if the relationship really has a future and the past generally does catch up with you.

Good luck and look forward to hearing about your decission.