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Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 10:32:32 GMT

I was just in my first year of my 10 SOR when i visited the Philippines to see my friend and family, which was great. A big birthday was planned 2 months later so I decided to go back to attend. Many arrangements were made for me by the family and I went to Manila.........only to get the shock of my life and was denied entry. I have posted on here before about this experience, and i do not wish it on anyone. I broke down in tears (yes men in their 60's do !!) and was put back on the plane to the UK.

So as well as trying to explain to friends and family why I came back early, I do not want to repeat this experience.

So what now? I am sponsoring a friend in Bohol (the island hit by the typhoon on 17th December 21) and am desperate to go there to help him rebuild the house we built together (my money, his design and his project management). Obviously with covid it is impossible anyway, but what for the future? My PPU officer knows how clean and honest i am and no Green notice should be issued for any of my trips, but what of the Philippines Immigration? Will they have me on their records and refuse me a second time?

Anyone with experience of this?

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 10:32:32 GMT

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[b]Richie - 26 Jan 23 12:02 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 24 Jan 23 12:59 PM[/b]

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[b]iowian - 19 Jan 23 8:52 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 23 6:24 PM[/b]

I saw on an earlier thread similar to this one, that when entering a country our passports (SOR) flag says no details, but does indicate an offence and possibly a SO has been done . I did not know that a flag actually told any details about the person, so to read that it would tell immigration you could have a SO is alarming.

Is this true? When I got refused on my 2nd visit to the Philippines (in 2months) a few years back, I blamed a Green Notice being issued, but I had no confirmation that this was done. having entered to visit friends on the 1st visit, I did get rather a shock, which was distressing. (Understatement!!)

Also is it a legal requirement for us to be informed if a Green Notice has been issued? I don't think that will happen to me, but just curious.

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Hi Harry
Before getting into the rabbit warren around green notices and SO travel. Were you not given a reason for the refusal to enter and were you even allowed to visit twice within a two month period in any case, regardless of your SO status?

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Hi there. The Philippines immigration gave me no information why I was refused entry; the police said nothing, so do only So get a mark on my passport, and without revealing details, the country's immigration know it is possibly that ? I have always been honest and open with the CPO but this refusal happened with my first CPO who did not really get to know me. Did he issue a Green Notice >? Who knows

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From a previous PPU my understanding was that passports are marked but all this means is use you can't your passport at a UK E-Gate and you must go through a manned station. It also gives an electronic message back to your police offender manager to say you have entered the country and they then check to make sure you have registered the trip with the police.

When I asked her if I did travel abroad and was I likely to be stopped she just replied that people get stopped all the time...tried to push her but got nothing further!

Obviously if a Green Notice has been issued then this will likely flag up when you arrive abroad and this could lead to problems.

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If the actual passport was marked, it would mean there was something in the biometric chip, which could be detected by every immigration computer system, in every country. Since no SO is required to hand their passport in to the police, to have the chip amended, when they are put on the SOR, then how do the authorities put that marker on your passport?

The answer is that they don't. They put a marker on the UK immigration computer system only, against your passport number, which is why it triggers the E-gate. When we were in the EU, they also used to put a marker on the Schengen computer system as well, but they no longer do this. The only way that they could put a marker on any other countries computer system, is by issuing an Interpol notice.

So far as I am aware, the only country which does put a marker on the passport itself, is the USA.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Richie — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 00:02:25 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 24 Jan 23 12:59 PM[/b]

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[b]iowian - 19 Jan 23 8:52 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 23 6:24 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 10:31:12 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 24 Jan 23 12:59 PM[/b]

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[b]iowian - 19 Jan 23 8:52 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 23 6:24 PM[/b]

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There is no mark on the passport itself. Any marker would be held on the immigration computer system, of the country concerned

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 12:59:24 GMT

[quote]

[b]iowian - 19 Jan 23 8:52 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 23 6:24 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

iowian — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 08:52:01 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 23 6:24 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:24:17 GMT

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Sat, 22 Jan 2022 10:35:16 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 21 Jan 22 1:45 PM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 21 Jan 22 10:50 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 20 Jan 22 11:54 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

Given that we already have a provision for foreign travel bans, as part of an SHPO, you would think that anyone who was considered at risk of offending abroad, would have that written into their SHPO. That would leave the rest of us free to travel, without being under constant suspicion and risk of harassment.

The system of Interpol notices, would then act as a backup, to cover situations where a new risk was identified, that had not been picked up at the original trial. Instead, the PPU are free to imagine any risk they choose and to act disproportionately to address it, in contravention of the R v Smith proportionality rules.

If I read this correctly Harry, then you went to the Philippines without discussing it with the PPU first. You would have told the sergeant at your local police station, where you were going and filled in the forms. That information was subsequently picked up by the PPU. They may have been aware that you had a friend there, but they did not attempt to contact you, to discuss why you were going there. They may have just seen the word 'Philippines' on the computer and issued a green notice automatically, without thinking any more about it.

This really highlights the importance of keeping in contact with the PPU, particularly if they only visit once a year. The police are not under any obligation to reach out to you and discuss your reasons for going abroad. You cannot assume, that they are going to be ok with you travelling, you should always ask them first. If they don't respond, then do not go. Their silence should not be taken as tacit approval.

Before going back there, you may want to check with Interpol first, to see if there are any notices outstanding. But you should still consult the PPU as well.

https://www.interpol.int/en/Who-we-are/Commission-for-the-Control-of-INTERPOL-s-Files-CCF/How-to-submit-a-request

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Yes thank you for your thoughts. I think looking back, I may not have told him why I was going back and as it was within my first year, he really didn't know me. Now I have a good relationship with my PPU who trusts me 100% and knows my lifestyle and my contacts overseas, so I always discuss travel with him first. He likes the fact that I am totally honest with him. I have no reason to lie and I did too much of that while being married (thats another story !!), so now I am always honest and a better person - well I was never a bad person, I just had a gay porn addiction. It is a shame Interpol do not inform the person that a Notice will be issued though. It certainly would save a lot of stress and heartbreak for people. I would have simply cancelled the flight.

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I think it's probably stretching things a bit far, to say that any PPU trusts someone 100%. They are trained to build rapport with people, in order to get those people to disclose potentially useful information. They are always wary of being manipulated by offenders, because they have been trained to believe, that all SO are compulsive liars. They tend to keep their true feelings to themselves, even if they appear friendly on the outside.

But, none of that should stop you from asking them straightforward questions, such as: "If I were to travel to the Philippines, would you issue a green notice, yes or no?"

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When I have discussed Interpol and notices he says he has no connection with them. Thanks for denting my image of the total trust (LOL), but I guess you are right.

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Depending on your local force's policy, it might be that your PPU officer doesn't make the decision. It might be someone at HQ, who takes his reports and assessments into account.

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That's correct.

Each police force has an international liaison officer (ILO), who deals with foreign travel. The information will be passed to them and they then contact the National Crime Agency (NCA), who in turn, will contact Interpol.

So the PPU is right, to say they have no direct connection with Interpol. But they do have an input into the decision, to issue a green notice, or a diffusion.

The guidance says;

"The final decision in relation to circulating INTERPOL diffusions or colour notices sits with the NCA which, in liaison with the subject’s offender manager and the force’s ILO, consider which notification should be used on a case-by-case basis.”

This is an opportunity, to test the nature of that relationship with the PPU. The more they trust you, the more they are likely to tell you about how the process works.

If you want to know whether a green notice, or a diffusion, will be issued, or whether one already exists, then the PPU should be able to find out for you, by them asking the ILO, who can then ask the NCA. If the PPU really trusts you 100%, they should make the effort to do this for you, but if they try to fob you off with excuses, it means they want to keep you in the dark, about what they intend to do.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

JASB — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 15:40:12 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 21 Jan 22 10:50 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 20 Jan 22 11:54 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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When I have discussed Interpol and notices he says he has no connection with them. Thanks for denting my image of the total trust (LOL), but I guess you are right.

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remember feedback is not to make you depressed.
It is just when a person is punished they by default want to please the punisher etc to try and show they are sorry or wont do it again. We all hope to just become better individuals but can leave ourselves open if we are not also self protective .

I'm sure you will see yourself through this period.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

AB2014 — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 13:45:09 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 21 Jan 22 10:50 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 20 Jan 22 11:54 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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When I have discussed Interpol and notices he says he has no connection with them. Thanks for denting my image of the total trust (LOL), but I guess you are right.

[/quote]

Depending on your local force's policy, it might be that your PPU officer doesn't make the decision. It might be someone at HQ, who takes his reports and assessments into account.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:50:31 GMT

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 20 Jan 22 11:54 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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When I have discussed Interpol and notices he says he has no connection with them. Thanks for denting my image of the total trust (LOL), but I guess you are right.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

AB2014 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:42:40 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 20 Jan 22 3:16 PM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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Harry, I say this with all respect to you and you PPU officer whom I hope is as you say.
Unless it is in writing and can be used by you with their authority, be careful talking comments given in the manner you have described.
I have, via documents provided by my current PPU, proved that a previous officer emailed me twice to confirm the status of my SOR initial registration date, and yet the Police record shows that in between the 2 emails he entered a record stating they have informed me of a different date and status.

All I can say is that "some" individuals will provide comfort and bliss to you to try and have an easy life when meeting you, but as they know it is unlikely you will see the records, enter data that is more in line with the local policy for handling SO.

To clarify I, by my approach of demonstrating I understand their role in society, and confirming and questioning responses in writing, try to have a mutual and respective relationship with my PPU.

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You've hit the nail on the head there. The most important thing to remember is that for them there is no such thing as an ex-SO. They are trained to assume that any ex-SO is probably just waiting for a chance to re-offend. That is their attitude until you are off their books, and then suddenly it's like you never existed.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

JASB — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:16:26 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

JASB — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:01:02 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:29 AM[/b]

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[b]JASB - 18 Jan 22 4:32 PM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 22 3:37 PM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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Hi Harry,

I have a couple of questions about your last trip to the Philippines

Did you have a conversation with your PPU, before leaving, and did you ask them, if they had any objections or concerns about you going there?

You say no green notice "should" be issued. Is that because you have been told by the ppu that they have officially classified you as low risk, and that they would not issue a green notice, or is it because you regard yourself as being low risk, which is a very different thing.

It is perfectly possible, for a low risk person to be issued with a green notice, if they are visiting a high risk country. But it would depend on the opinion of their ppu, who can choose whether to issue the notice or not.

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Hi and thanks for reply. My previous PPU officer was ok with me and I had no problem visiting my friend. I do not remember having a conversation with him or asking him, maybe as it was the beginning of my SOR I did not know how to deal with travel. So I was just one year into the 10 yr SOR and was nieve. When i said I thought it was wrong a green notice was probably issued against me, it is because from offending online to starting my suspended sentence, I had changed 100% and managed to deal with the porn addiction. In their mind maybe they thought differently, but no one asked why I was going back. My current PPU officer only visits once a year to check on me. As I said before, I have never been a risk to physically harming anyone, but pleaded guilty to to online actions.

I fully understand despite how I may have changed and even if I had the full support of my PPU officer, that going to a country with high levels of child abuse could still result in a refusal.

I do feel that those of us that view under 18 year old images are damned as it is considered that we will then hop over to an asian country and physically abuse children. I find that a really sick thing to imply.

[/quote]

Hi
[quote]I do feel that those of us that view under 18 year old images are damned as it is considered that we will then hop over to an Asian country and physically abuse children. I find that a really sick thing to imply.[/quote]

It is not only image viewing that fall into this presumption.
Unfortunately I am of the belief it is the perception that fuels the "distrust" against a SO.
In my case I have been to SE Asia circa 8 times; even whilst on bail, no offences or accusations, but "society" have their own belief on every ex-SO is a SO no matter the offence, even if it is not proved.

Ask a stranger why a man (or woman) goes to SE Asia.

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Well the reason I love Asia is I love the different cultures and the people are normally very kind. To say that sex is the main reason people go to Asia is simply grossly wrong. I went to China alone 8 and 10 years ago to explore the country and push myself into an area of travel that was alien for me. I made friends who I still have today. I think it is horrible that people relate to countries like Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam etc as a place to go for sex tourists. That, I might suggest is a minority. I am a traveller and have never taken that view and never will. It is important to respect everyone is this world.

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Hi
During my stay in Hanoi, in the early evening I would go to the local park areas throughout the city where the locals of all ages would gather to talk, dance, exercise. The impression it gave as "age and sex" was not seen as a divisive elements, was one of respect and community wellbeing focused.
It was ruined one night when I heard an American female telling / warning females of the "sex addictive and predatory western males". I listen for a while and then asked her "Not removing the faults of western men, but why are you dismissing the western females from this statement, and informed her that the Vietnam war did not create the go-go bar, it came from the Chinese and Japanese cultures centuries before."
I received verbal abuse from the American and then spent many hours discussing and answering many questions from the same females on "our culture" and their perception of it gained from American TV shows. It was one of the most interesting evening I have ever spent.

In short you can compare an ex-so wish to visit SE Asia in the same many as your PPU officer seeing you walk through a red light area; you must be there for sex, even though your route to the nearest Tesco takes you that way.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:54:58 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 20 Jan 22 11:36 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:36:09 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 19 Jan 22 3:00 PM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:29:29 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 18 Jan 22 4:32 PM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 22 3:37 PM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:00:11 GMT

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

JASB — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 16:32:25 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 22 3:37 PM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

AB2014 — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 16:28:02 GMT

[quote]

[b]Harry53 - 18 Jan 22 3:37 PM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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It may well be a sick thing to imply, but you have to remember many in the police and the general population think that all SO's are basically the same and just waiting for the chance to commit another offence. Apparently, we're not choosy, so any offence will do. ☹🤬

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 15:38:41 GMT

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 13 Jan 22 10:44 AM[/b]

If a green notice had been issued, it would automatically expire after 5 years. This is to allow for the possibility that the individuals risk level has changed. You can also contact Interpol and make a request for a notice to be removed.

https://www.fairtrials.org/asking-removal-information-interpols-files

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Thank you that is very useful. It is nearly 5 years since my attempt to revisit my friend so I will ask them.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

Harry53 — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 15:37:11 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:44:23 GMT

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

AB2014 — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:33:55 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 10 Jan 22 10:48 AM[/b]

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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There is also the matter of your immigration record in the Philipines showing that you were deported before. There is no way of knowing what they will make of that.

RE: Can I revisit the Philippines in the future after being denied entry 4 years ago ?

punter99 — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:48:30 GMT

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[b]Harry53 - 8 Jan 22 11:30 AM[/b]

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