theForum » The Criminal Justice System » Police » Monitoring Software

RE: Monitoring Software

Richie — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:38:58 GMT

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[b]Mo22 - 11 Jan 24 2:03 PM[/b]

Hi guys hope all is well and you had a nice Xmas and have a good new year. I’ve finished my probation now so a few more years shpo. I had a visit from ppu with two other tech guys to check my router. The last visit with a tech guy was some time ago but it was just one hefty device he hooked up but this time was a small laptop with a device that’s hooked on back of the their laptop and they were moving it around like some sort of detector verifing the devices. Is this new tech they using or something that been around for a while would anyone know. I wanted to ask questions but officer obviously talking to me about other things. I was all clear much to disappointment to officer face when they said everything fine lol.

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Almost certainly looking for undeclared devices
It is not any type of tech that I have ever come across. To be fair though I never had a visit from a tech guy, all of my visits are just 2 standard officers who appear to have some basic training of what to look for. When I first had monitoring software installed it was obvious that it was the first time the officer had installed it they kept asking me questions as they know I have an IT background!

Monitoring Software

Richie — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:38:58 GMT

As part of my SHPO the police are entitled to install monitoring software on my devices.

After a long time of having no monitoring software they have now installed monitoring software on my devices and I have to say I am unhappy about the software on my Android Tablet.

It appears that screen cast is constantly running on my tablet and it looks like everything that I do is being monitored not just my internet history. So any family picture I look at, family video, online video, book, online banking, any email I read or write etc is all being monitored.

My assumption was that they were only allowed to record my internet history. My offence is internet based and my SHPO only states I must register the device and not delete internet history or use incognito mode.

I can't really see what they have installed on my laptop and what it is doing but I dread to think

Does anyone have any experience of this and has anyone challenged the police when they install software on their devices?

RE: Monitoring Software

khafka — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:14:17 GMT

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[b]Mo22 - 11 Jan 24 2:03 PM[/b]

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It's nothing something I'm aware of but if he's moving about like that my gut feeling is it's something that is looking for devices connected to Wi-Fi and/or 4G to see if you have any hidden internet devices you've not declared.

RE: Monitoring Software

Mo22 — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:03:07 GMT

RE: Monitoring Software

xDanx — Sat, 02 Sep 2023 11:14:20 GMT

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[b]Mo22 - 2 Sep 23 4:57 AM[/b]

Hi the two references to the software is Makes device available upon request to a ppu officer in order A) the internet history be examined B) risk management maybe installed. This prohibition shall not apply to a computer as he work place, job centre plus, public Library, educational establishment or other such place, provided that in relation to his work place of work, within 3 days of him commencing use of such a computer, he notifies the ppu unit of this use. Second reference is under deleting internet user history Deleting or interfering with any risk assessment software if it is installed upon any internet enabled device

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Using words such as "maybe" and "if" suggests to me that monitor software is optional, and ultimately decided on by your ppu. You can request the software be removed on the basis that it is making your devices slow and impossible to use.

RE: Monitoring Software

Mo22 — Sat, 02 Sep 2023 04:57:59 GMT

RE: Monitoring Software

xDanx — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 14:13:22 GMT

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[b]Mo22 - 1 Sep 23 10:55 AM[/b]

How would one know if it’s compulsory on a shpo? I have it on my laptop. At first when I posted here I wasn’t having any issues but now my god even the officer who attended with ppu officer said is just me or this computer slow. It’s really messed up my laptop. Things freeze a lot. My shpo says monitoring software may be installed. To be honest I don’t use it much so I’m not really bothered however I was thinking about getting a new contract phone next year when I get better credit rating, but they can install it on android phones and android phones have a wider range of phone selections but I’m not going to pay 800+ for a phone that’s going to perform like crap because of the software so I will stick to a new iPhone eventually as they can’t install it on iPhones. I understand it’s purpose but for someone who maybe works from their laptop I can’t imagine the pain they going through trying to work.

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It really all comes down to how your SHPO is worded, usually if it is even mentioned then they enforce it saying it "must" be installed. You can request it to be removed by your PPU since it can be shown how slow it is, or look into applying to have your SHPO amended to remove monitoring software from the order if your PPU is not supportive of this.

Could you type here what the order says word for word about monitoring software?

RE: Monitoring Software

Mo22 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:55:08 GMT

RE: Monitoring Software

JASB — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:01:46 GMT

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[b]Richie - 30 Jan 23 10:16 PM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 26 Jan 23 10:15 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 24 Jan 23 12:09 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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I had my first visit since the software was installed on my laptop.

There was only one report that the software made to the police. At some point I had changed the background picture of my computer to include a picture of the my children on a family day out.

The picture was totally innocent but this was picked up by the software. When I asked what the software was looking for I was told anything illegal, but obviously this picture was not illegal and I have contact approved with my children by Social Services.

Is it in my rights to ask what the software is actually monitoring? The SHPO just says risk management software can be installed which is very wide ranging and it does not define what it can look for. The restrictions on my SHPO is just that I cannot delete internet history, use incognito browsing etc

So it looks like the risk management software is looking at more than just internet history. Whilst this is probably allowed under the banner of 'risk management software' I am not sure it is in the spirit of the SHPO.

I am seriously considering talking to a solicitor about this. I did get the feedback that no one else had any problems with the software and I was only the person questioning it (not sure I believed that!)

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So my phone had the monitoring software installed on it at my last visit and I realise what a pile of rubbish it is.

Every now and again the software just randomly stops. So I have to restart it which is certainly something I don't believe I should be doing. To me it should just work and I shouldn't have to monitor the software to make sure it is working.

Also when the phone starts I have to manually confirm that the software can record my screen. Again I don't believe I should be doing this.

I had these same issues on my tablet and successfully argued for the software to be removed but they don't seem so willing to do this on my phone. It maybe because my offence was made on a phone and they see it as greater risk me having one.

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It's still worth pressing them on it, as if the software isn't working properly, they need to be passing that back to the provider to get it fixed. Who knows what else might be going wrong that you can't see...?

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I am at the point that I am going to get a solicitor involved for advice. I have nothing against the software being installed as I have nothing to hide but I don't think it is unreasonable for the software to work without me intervening.

Sometimes when the software fails it restarts automatically and a big eSafe logo is shown prompting me to start recording the screen. This has happened a couple of times in public and I am worried that someone will see it. It could lead to an awkward conversation if someone asks what it is.

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As others have mentioned this should be raised as an issue as it makes you vulunable. I would consider documenting it and passing the actual evidence and a question is it and for how long do they feel it is nessary given the issues, onto to your PPU to see how they reply; not mentioning solicitors.

If ignored or a loose reply received then i would seek legal advice.

Good luck.

Depending

RE: Monitoring Software

Richie — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 22:16:12 GMT

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[b]AB2014 - 26 Jan 23 10:15 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 24 Jan 23 12:09 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

AB2014 — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 10:15:38 GMT

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[b]Richie - 24 Jan 23 12:09 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Richie — Tue, 24 Jan 2023 00:09:53 GMT

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

JASB — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 11:35:10 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 18 Jan 23 10:54 AM[/b]

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[b]khafka - 17 Jan 23 12:01 PM[/b]

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[b]Was - 17 Jan 23 10:30 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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I did query it robustly on their first visit so I think I went on their naughty list for a while for being "obstructive". However, they did pass me on the phone to a techie so I could ask a few questions.

Assuming it's Guardware eSafe, the software does a few things which I discovered inadvertently whilst trying to clear space on a full hard drive.

This may not be all the functions, because I stopped when I ended up in the folders as I didn't want to be accused of trying to tamper with it, which I wasn't.

It has a keylogger. I think, however, it only monitors browser based keystrokes, but I could be wrong on that. There is also a "snapshot" feature which monitors suspicious files, saves then to a hidden directory and uploads either the file or a "fingerprint" to the police's Guardware server. It seemed to have saved some You Tube videos and a smattering of photos on mine. The server produces a prioritised "risk" list. Not sure if all forces do this but I had to change all my device names to ones that clearly were constructed so that they could do a search of the list to zero in on an individual without them having to keep an exhaustive list of computer names mapped to an offender.

There is also this:

Digital intelligence software aids sex offender monitoring (corrections1.com)

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I haven't had any monitoring software installed so this might be a silly question but you mentioned "...and uploads either the file or a fingerprint..."

Maybe it's just me being difficult for the sake of it but say you have a limited internet package, who is paying for the data use in uploading it? Similarly mobile data if it's installed on a mobile.

I know the answer, obviously, but still seems a bit cheeky.

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Typically the screengrab file will be between 50kb and 350kb. Tiny.
Think yourself lucky that you do not live in the USA. The SO there, are required to take regular polygraph tests and have to pay for them too, at around $150 each time.

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hi,
We copy most things off the yanks so time will tell :(

RE: Monitoring Software

punter99 — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:54:25 GMT

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[b]khafka - 17 Jan 23 12:01 PM[/b]

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[b]Was - 17 Jan 23 10:30 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

JASB — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 12:24:41 GMT

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[b]Was - 17 Jan 23 10:30 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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Hi
Remember this has been designed and built by humans so will start with a very cautious "capture all" approach to have got the Government contract! It is like Facial recognition software that is constantly been tested and faults found e.g. faults with recognizing certain skin tones. The public are the test subjects hence complaints regarding Police action when people try to hide their faces in a test area.
This software will be under constant review for "design quality" and success rates; however unlike facial recognition software, society will not support the "victims" interrogated by the software mistakes.
Eventually (if not already) A.I. will be costed into the budget and then "Skynet" will take over :)

Remember how many years it took the Post Office shop owners to win their claim the software was not working correctly!

RE: Monitoring Software

JASB — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 12:16:21 GMT

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[b]khafka - 17 Jan 23 12:01 PM[/b]

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[b]Was - 17 Jan 23 10:30 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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If the software has been design efficiently the amount of data transferred will be very small.
But yes you will be paying for them to monitor your "activity"... who says "Crime does not pay" as we seem to be "paying" quite a lot. :)

RE: Monitoring Software

khafka — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 12:01:53 GMT

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[b]Was - 17 Jan 23 10:30 AM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Was — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:30:44 GMT

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[b]Richie - 16 Jan 23 10:55 PM[/b]

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Richie — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 22:55:23 GMT

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Was — Mon, 22 Aug 2022 18:34:23 GMT

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[b]Richie - 22 Aug 22 3:17 PM[/b]

With regards to my laptop I am now getting some sites which are not accessible. I have Guardware installed and for example I can't access the currys website on my laptop. It seems that this is protected who believe the software to be malicious. It kind of worries me a little that a site can tell the software is running. To be honest I think it thinks it is a bot. Does anyone else have a similar problem

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True. I just didn't twig it was Guardware causing it, but it makes sense. I can access the Currys site with no problems now.

Richie — Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:17:59 GMT

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[b]Richie - 16 Jun 22 9:34 PM[/b]

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I thought I would update this as it has now been a couple of months since I started with the software

With regards to my Tablet my Police Supervising Officer has agreed that I can this removed from my tablet. I did complain to her about it as the software kept stopping and I couldn't watch Now TV on it as it thought I was trying to stream it. She agreed that it was impacting on my daily use of the tablet and agreed to have it removed. This was all over the phone so I did email her to confirm the telephone conversation which she confirmed back...experience has taught me to always get everything in writing!

With regards to my laptop I am now getting some sites which are not accessible. I have Guardware installed and for example I can't access the currys website on my laptop. It seems that this is protected who believe the software to be malicious. It kind of worries me a little that a site can tell the software is running. To be honest I think it thinks it is a bot. Does anyone else have a similar problem

RE: Monitoring Software

khafka — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:57:33 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 15 Aug 22 10:37 AM[/b]

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[b]Was - 14 Aug 22 11:31 PM[/b]

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[b]Mo22 - 13 Aug 22 9:00 PM[/b]

I had software installed on my laptop. I’ve had my second visit due to change of ppu officer she came around with the tech guy for the police to scan everything and look at router to check if any devices are connected to the Wi-Fi by using a third party app. At first said he couldn’t find the software 🤔🤔🤔🤔 even though it was him who installed it at the police station on my initial visit to install software. He then said you might of deleted I was like hold on no way would I do that. I started to panic and after a bit of digging he found it and said it hasn’t been running and now it is. Then the ppu officer was like we got keep a eye on this like I’m interfering with it when I haven’t even touch the damn thing. Very shifty or maybe was a genuine mistake by him. But I keep a open mind. I hardly use my laptop so I don’t really notice anything if it interferes with use. I always use my phone.

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If you've got Guardware then apart form the incriminating splash screen, everything is monitored remotely and apart from it stealing clock cycles (I had a 20% performance improvement when they removed it) it's invisible.

Not sure why a visit was required at all. The looking for a 3rd party app excuse is quite laughable. A device with monitoring software is allowed things such as VPNs because the monitoring is done at the client level . A router reboot would delete all other connected devices from DHCP.

Bear in mind that the police are quite ignorant when it comes to computers. If it comes down to accusing you of interfering, it's "not working" is not sufficient. They would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a judge that you had done it and you could demand forensics. It's scare tactics.

I'm not going to post it here, but any determined perp can get around the software on almost any computer without uninstalling it or interfering with it in any way. It would still be breaking the SHPO and a criminal offence but it would be undetectable. Most SHPO conditions are tick box measures to look like they are doing something, and I doubt whether they have done anything other than catch out the unwary rather than stop anyone bent on reoffending.

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"a router reboot would delete all other connected devices from DHCP."

Although the router history would still have a record of all other devices that had been connected in the past. The thing I fnd odd is that they install the monitoring software on laptops but not phones and most people use their phones far more often.

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I've never had monitoring software installed so not fully 100% sure on the protocol with it so I might be speaking nonsense here but my gut feeling for them not installing it on phones is mostly because of the diversity in software they'd have to account for. As far as computers go its basically Linux, Apple, Windows. With mobiles you can have iPhone, Windows, Android, crappy little burner, I think Google has its own now which is a variation on Android. .They simply don't have the variety in their software to cope with all that as it'd potentially mean developing new software to accommodate it, not to mention people tend to change their phones out more routinely than their computers.

RE: Monitoring Software

punter99 — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:37:03 GMT

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[b]Was - 14 Aug 22 11:31 PM[/b]

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[b]Mo22 - 13 Aug 22 9:00 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Was — Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:31:45 GMT

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[b]Mo22 - 13 Aug 22 9:00 PM[/b]

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RE: Monitoring Software

Mo22 — Sat, 13 Aug 2022 21:00:48 GMT