theForum » Other areas » Emotional support » Limbo

Limbo

Craniumbre — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 13:08:56 GMT

Hi all,

I’ve been following the forum a short while and pleased to see that it is more or less up and running again.

Basically I am struggling and I don’t know what to do. A couple months ago I was placed under arrest for possession and am currently released while under investigation. I have since quit my job and I don’t know what to do now/next. I am just spending my days doing nothing and reading all type of news relating to possession and potential prison sentences. The world means nothing to me anymore. I don’t know how other people are getting through this. I’ve even found a way out via suicide. I really don’t think there is a future - I don’t condone what I did and I’m not proud of it - from reading everything, I might as well not live anymore.

How are other people getting through this limbo period waiting for outcome? I am in touch with Lucy Faithfull but other than that I am tired all the time and not wanting to eat and have not really spoken to people face to face for 2 months now.

Are there any guidance?

RE: Limbo

Craniumbre — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 13:08:56 GMT

I am now in touch with LFF to look into doing two of their courses and have just sent a request to Safer Lives to look into doing a programme with them. I’ve also got another counselling programme booked in but it won’t be until much later this month when I will have a first session and I don’t know how often this will be or if it will be regular but this is more of a generic counselling rather than the specific, focused as provided by organisations. I need to look into getting a new device! I hope judge will go in your favour. Thanks for the links. In general, how have you all felt when moving away?

RE: Limbo

punter99 — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 11:14:47 GMT

[quote]

[b]Was - 31 Jul 22 6:03 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 31 Jul 22 12:47 PM[/b]

I do feel like I deserve the full brunt of the law whatever that law will be!

[/quote]

What you actually deserve is a fair application of the law. Don't put yourself at a disadvantage.

I was so relieved when they removed the Cat A and B offences from my charges, that I made no objection to the Cat C offences still standing. I don't think that there was anything even with them that would have stood up to scrutiny, but I was never given the chance to see them to rebut the accusation.

I was, however, guilty of what I thought was "personal reckless behaviour" and it was that that led me to plead guilty. I do not regret my decision as it was the right one with the information I had at the time, but in retrospect I probably should have challenged further.

Now, I don't know your specific circumstances, so I will not speculate. But in hindsight with the course and probation I know how I got there. At this point, you probably have only your own thoughts, not those of professionals.

And don't take what the police say at face value. They can lie to you in face to face conversations. I know mine did prior and post conviction. As I said to my probation officer, probation's job is to stop me reoffending and they are judged on that. The police's job was to catch me out on a technicality so they can improve their stats.

[/quote]

"The police's job was to catch me out on a technicality so they can improve their stats."

Not sure that they would see it that way. If you were reoffending and they caught you, then they would get credit for that, but their boss would still want to know, why they hadn't stopped you from reoffending in the first place. If a police force has a high reoffending rate, then it means they are failing at crime prevention, which looks really bad for them. A low reoffending rate, actually makes the PPU look like they are doing a good job.

RE: Limbo

Was — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:03:24 GMT

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 31 Jul 22 12:47 PM[/b]

I do feel like I deserve the full brunt of the law whatever that law will be!

[/quote]

RE: Limbo

Craniumbre — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:47:20 GMT

Hi xdanx, Ta for checking in. The past few days have been okish. More or less I’m still struggling but mentally in a better shape. Waking up in the mornings are the worse. I just go, here we go, another day. I can’t focus on anything really and attention span is short. This was happening in the lead up to the ‘knock’ anyway. There’s so many things going through my mind still. I’m not going to say that I’m seeing an improvement in my life - I’m looking on this forum gaining understanding. My legs has much less strength than it once had in the past! I do feel like I deserve the full brunt of the law whatever that law will be! I’m still looking up on news of other offenders in similar position as me. There are a couple or few which are of interest in the news which looks like in a similar position. I feel pretty certain that I am looking at a custodial sentence. As such, I’ve got my bag packed. The detective inspector came round the other day returning my devices apart from the incriminating device. I am not really in the mood to ever use those devices which has been returned again though. DI says it will be ‘months’ with the investigation. It’s been two months so far. I’m finding it hard when I have to tell the one other friend who have been checking up on me of late and how I am doing. I am certainly aware of the long term impact this will have. I am making firm plans on moving away as I currently live with my parents. The move will be quite far away. I do not want to impact my parents life. I do have their support and I do think this is absolutely the right decision seeing life will be impacted for the next 5-10years at least. I know I will have the option of moving back in time but for now this is a world away. Moving also means I will have to get my arse up and go and have to do regular daily things, plus having somewhere to live over the long term. It’s all the SHPO and the issues this will cause in time too. I have looked and may plan on doing one of the LFF courses, there may well be communication issues which will need to be sorted. I wouldn’t have been able to immediately go into this course 1 month ago. Time was needed to get my brain into the right mindset after what I’ve been through the past couple months - however I am now always baring in mind that all those victims have been through this since the abuse they’ve faced - and that my experiences pales in comparison to them. I won’t be looking at a good life but I have in mind that the life I had with the porn wasn’t good anyway. I think prison will be the hardest thing to overcome first. The solicitors I have are “specialist” so certainly hope this is good enough. For me right now, it is making plans and moving forward.

RE: Limbo

JASB — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:54:24 GMT

[quote]

[b]xDanx - 31 Jul 22 10:04 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 27 Jul 22 1:07 PM[/b]

Hey,Thanks for your responses. I’m only on my iPad so much harder for me to type everything out it feels!Khafka - a really nice detailed post of everything you’ve experienced through the course of the year. My experience is more or less the same so far although plenty different in cases. As for what will happen in future, I will refer back to what you’ve written out and keep in mind on anything I should be looking out for. As for getting on with things, I am just struggling and I am not even able to “continue with life as normal”. I am just overwhelmed with guilt. My family are supportive but I much rather not have that support and for me to be in four walls somewhere else. I even rather move out and be in a different place. I feel I honestly much prefer to be in prison and confess to more than what they will find (as this is what I deserve and probably on basis on what I’ve done I should go to prison and rather be in there now - my prison bag is 95% packed I would say). I’ve been reading through your other posts (you’ve got 3 year order?). I feel like I’m facing a 10year or more order (all my fault though) and road to recovery will be much more difficult. Really hope you get the job. My outlet for me right now is this website, indecent news and suicides website. All three makes me feel much calmer as weird as it is even though it is not the right things to be doing, I can’t take my mind off of it. Was - things does feel like the end of the world! Absolutely. I can’t recall if mine ever gave me any advice!Jasb - It is really hard to believe in myself anymore really. I’ve done a lot of damage, really have. I agree that I should be refraining from reading the news but I’m just placing myself in the right mind of what charges and prison terms I could face. It is just so wide ranging. I can’t do anything else as it reminds me of the life I’ve basically thrown away. Really have. I’ve deleted my social media and will be hard to find me. There are some photos left on Google, no idea how I am meant to get rid of peakyou and radaris stuff!It is really strange. I’ve done wrong but I’m still free to do anything legally speaking. Thanks xdanx - we will see what is uncovered. I deserve the brunt of the law. I just rather be homeless too after prison! Thanks for the support though. I hope I see more people using this forum. Slightly tricky to find!

[/quote]

Given it has been a few days now, I just wanted to check on how you are doing?

I hope you are well and are managing to find ways to continue with your life as normal as possible. Between the time I was arrested and eventually sentenced (9 month gap) my life was actually improving, although stressing that my computer was taken and I was unable to play all the games I enjoyed playing. This was actually a blessing as I was heavily addicted to the internet and pornography. I managed to find ways to get myself out my home and socialize more with friends and even make new friends. I made some of those friends aware of my situation in time and those closest to me have stuck by me. As I said in my earlier post, the more you do now to improve up on yourself and have it documented will greatly benefit you in future. Unfortunately for me, all my progress was tarnished after sentencing as my case was reported on locally. Although my solicitors claimed they were my "best friends" they did absolutely nothing to challenge the SHPO given to me so I would choose your solicitor wisely. I was looking around online and I found this which may be of help and should be easier to read and understand regarding the rights and wrongs of a SHPO https://www.indecentimageslaw.co.uk/sexual-harm-prevention-order-shpo. I offer this information in the hopes that should you indeed be given a SHPO that it does not get abused with unjustified prohibitions. Perhaps get in touch with the firm who may be able to assist you.

I understand fully you feel as though you deserve the "full brunt of the law", you do not. What you deserve is a second chance and time to understand your mistakes and to learn from them, after all is that not life's biggest lesson? Feeling the guilt is natural but do not let the police use it against you like they did to me.

Be safe and once again, I hope you are well

[/quote]

well worded.

RE: Limbo

xDanx — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:04:24 GMT

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 27 Jul 22 1:07 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Given it has been a few days now, I just wanted to check on how you are doing?

I hope you are well and are managing to find ways to continue with your life as normal as possible. Between the time I was arrested and eventually sentenced (9 month gap) my life was actually improving, although stressing that my computer was taken and I was unable to play all the games I enjoyed playing. This was actually a blessing as I was heavily addicted to the internet and pornography. I managed to find ways to get myself out my home and socialize more with friends and even make new friends. I made some of those friends aware of my situation in time and those closest to me have stuck by me. As I said in my earlier post, the more you do now to improve up on yourself and have it documented will greatly benefit you in future. Unfortunately for me, all my progress was tarnished after sentencing as my case was reported on locally. Although my solicitors claimed they were my "best friends" they did absolutely nothing to challenge the SHPO given to me so I would choose your solicitor wisely. I was looking around online and I found this which may be of help and should be easier to read and understand regarding the rights and wrongs of a SHPO https://www.indecentimageslaw.co.uk/sexual-harm-prevention-order-shpo I offer this information in the hopes that should you indeed be given a SHPO that it does not get abused with unjustified prohibitions. Perhaps get in touch with the firm who may be able to assist you.

I understand fully you feel as though you deserve the "full brunt of the law", you do not. What you deserve is a second chance and time to understand your mistakes and to learn from them, after all is that not life's biggest lesson? Feeling the guilt is natural but do not let the police use it against you like they did to me.

Be safe and once again, I hope you are well

RE: Limbo

JASB — Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:49:00 GMT

[quote]

[b]Was - 30 Jul 22 12:04 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 28 Jul 22 11:46 AM[/b]

If the images are category C only, then it will not even go to crown court, it will be dealt with by the magistrates.

[/quote]

I think it's a triable either way offence. My offence was for category C images and I still ended up in a Crown Court.

[/quote]

Hi
I think this just shows that it all comes down to the CPS and Court's policy on anything to do with SOs; no matter the details of the offence.

RE: Limbo

Was — Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:04:49 GMT

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 28 Jul 22 11:46 AM[/b]

If the images are category C only, then it will not even go to crown court, it will be dealt with by the magistrates.

[/quote]

I think it's a triable either way offence. My offence was for category C images and I still ended up in a Crown Court.

RE: Limbo

punter99 — Thu, 28 Jul 2022 11:46:34 GMT

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 27 Jul 22 1:07 PM[/b]

[/quote]

When it comes to sentencing, no one can say with certainty what will happen, but bear in mind that 73% of people convicted for image offences, DON'T go to prison.
The most common outcomes, are either a 2 year suspended sentence, or a 3 year community order.

If the images are category C only, then it will not even go to crown court, it will be dealt with by the magistrates. The most important factor that they will take into consideration, is what has the person done to rehabilitate themselves? Do they accept that they need help and what have they done to get help?

The Lucy Faithful programme is what most people do. Either face to face, if you can afford it, or online, if you can't.

As for dealing with suicidal thoughts, there are many organisations that will be able to help you. e.g. MIND, CALM, Samaritans. Having been on various website forums for depression and suicide myself, I think that all they do, is drag you down further into depression. There are no solutions to be found there.

RE: Limbo

JASB — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:34:33 GMT

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 27 Jul 22 1:07 PM[/b]

[/quote]

Hi
To be blunt you are "looking the wrong way!" so yes you will feel your life is over BUT it is not.
Read again my words about "guilt and shame", think about them AND use google to research the meaning behind them and not websites about suicides and indecent news. That is an instant progression away from your current focus.

At first i thought I was asleep, dreaming it all. However like your thoughts and those rubbish TV shows you suddenly get addicted to, it was just a path of "escapism" denying reality. A first step to "rehabilitation" is to accept your reality which is the present. Tomorrow is a future "present" and only you can make it a different "present".

The individuals you are talking to here are examples that the "present" they found themselves in can be a different "present" tomorrow.

[quote]There are many in the world that have not committed an offence and are worse off than me[/quote]
When you get a negative thought think on those words.

Re photos. I say this in the hope I am not putting a curse on me but the "media" did not publish a photo of me as the Police did not provide one. Also every time I went to Court I wore a suit and followed a simple process:
Standing away from the Court I searched for any "photographer". This was easy as they just stand there with the camera snapping away.
Next you approach them from behind and walk past and into the Court with your back to them. On the way out of Court do not rush out of the doors but stop to look to see if they are still there. If you cannot see them or even if you can, try and join the back of others looking like you work there.
Obviously many things may stop the scenario BUT focusing on that will take the nerves away and hopefully lessen the chances of them getting a photo of you that way.

Prison life is hard, not what you see in films or TV shows but it is what you make it; my tours in Northern Ireland in the '70's and other trouble spots of the world allowed me to frequent less desirable establishments believe me. I made it an adventure, a lesson in self learning, and importantly learning the true aspects of "society" e.g. living outside my minuscule and apparently privileged world!.

Maintain the "no hope" path of thought and the friends you will make inside will and outside of prison will probably take you further down the path you do not want to journey.

You are still fortunate enough to be alive and hopefully will live a long and healthy life. There are many things you can still do or as my career officer said 50 years ago [quote]" you are not fortunate enough to be given everything on a silver plater so it is up to you to have/make a life as no one can or will give it to you! You will also make mistakes but realise they will be only negative to your life if you repeat them intentionally."[/quote]

Finally and hopefully to end with a smile, remember as a child you were probably ill or had toothache for the first time and you thought "it is too painful, my life is over"!
Your still here aren't you?

RE: Limbo

Craniumbre — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 13:07:30 GMT

Hey, Thanks for your responses. I’m only on my iPad so much harder for me to type everything out it feels! Khafka - a really nice detailed post of everything you’ve experienced through the course of the year. My experience is more or less the same so far although plenty different in cases. As for what will happen in future, I will refer back to what you’ve written out and keep in mind on anything I should be looking out for. As for getting on with things, I am just struggling and I am not even able to “continue with life as normal”. I am just overwhelmed with guilt. My family are supportive but I much rather not have that support and for me to be in four walls somewhere else. I even rather move out and be in a different place. I feel I honestly much prefer to be in prison and confess to more than what they will find (as this is what I deserve and probably on basis on what I’ve done I should go to prison and rather be in there now - my prison bag is 95% packed I would say). I’ve been reading through your other posts (you’ve got 3 year order?). I feel like I’m facing a 10year or more order (all my fault though) and road to recovery will be much more difficult. Really hope you get the job. My outlet for me right now is this website, indecent news and suicides website. All three makes me feel much calmer as weird as it is even though it is not the right things to be doing, I can’t take my mind off of it. Was - things does feel like the end of the world! Absolutely. I can’t recall if mine ever gave me any advice! Jasb - It is really hard to believe in myself anymore really. I’ve done a lot of damage, really have. I agree that I should be refraining from reading the news but I’m just placing myself in the right mind of what charges and prison terms I could face. It is just so wide ranging. I can’t do anything else as it reminds me of the life I’ve basically thrown away. Really have. I’ve deleted my social media and will be hard to find me. There are some photos left on Google, no idea how I am meant to get rid of peakyou and radaris stuff! It is really strange. I’ve done wrong but I’m still free to do anything legally speaking. Thanks xdanx - we will see what is uncovered. I deserve the brunt of the law. I just rather be homeless too after prison! Thanks for the support though. I hope I see more people using this forum. Slightly tricky to find!

RE: Limbo

JASB — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 13:04:31 GMT

Hi
By reading the replies you can now tick the "box" that says create a "support group".

RE: Limbo

xDanx — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 12:30:26 GMT

Firstly, Welcome to the forum SwitchFlip

Many of us here have been in the same boat as you and other members have given sound advice so I will not go over what has already been said. If you are struggling please do seek help.

The next few months will be worrying and frustrating to say the least, but what you do now can over all effect the out come of any sentencing you may receive. Take this opportunity to better yourself and get a much deeper understanding of the laws and what you are entitled too, make sure your solicitor is doing his / her job by informing you of the information that will help you, such as character references, Case law R v Smith. these are very important so the judge can get a much better outlook of who you really are from the view of those closest to you, understanding the case law to prevent any disproportionate restrictions on your SHPO (sexual harm prevention order) if you are given one can help avoid being given disproportionate restrictions. An example of this would be, given your potential charge could be for images, the SHPO should NOT restrict you from contact with under 16s / 18s because there was no actual contact offence. It is your solicitors / barristers duty to ensure a SHPO is tailored to the actual offence so if things do indeed proceed to the courts, make them aware you are familiar with the R v Smith court of appeal. I will provide a link in which you can read in your own time. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2011/1772.html

Try and live your life as normal as possible, be safe

RE: Limbo

punter99 — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 11:55:10 GMT

I can't add much to the previous comments. Never thought about getting a house plant myself, but it sounds like a good idea. Definitely delete all your social media. Keep busy and look after yourself.

You are in a strange situation legally. No bail conditions, so you are completely innocent right now, so far as society is concerned. When I was arrested, I had a foreign holiday booked, and I asked the police if I could still go. They said it was absolutely fine and their advice was actually to carry on with my life as normal.

If you do end up with a conviction, then foreign travel will be one of many things you will find more difficult, so take advantage of it now, if you can afford to. You don't mention what your financial circumstances are, so disregard this advice, if money is going to be a problem.

But it sounds like you need some help with mental health right now, so reaching out to your GP is the first thing. Any steps you take now, to help yourself, will be relevant, if the case goes to court, because the judge will want to know what you did, while waiting to be charged. Ask Lucy Faithful, what they recommend. Stopso offers reduced price therapy, example.

RE: Limbo

JASB — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 12:04:22 GMT

[quote]

[b]khafka - 25 Jul 22 9:17 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 25 Jul 22 5:44 PM[/b]

Thanks. That is a pretty good reply and better than what I’ve heard or received over the past two months. I still feel the damage I’ve done goes beyond images and that I am looking at a prison sentence even though I have not yet been charged. I’m mentally prepared for prison. The hardest bit has been not having spoken to other people who has been through it or are going through it and your responses helps that way rather than talking to professionals who handles situations like this. The discovery section is really helpful. That didn’t come to mind so will be something for me to think and prepare about. Did you go through those with your solicitor before the interview with the police and how many interviews did you have in total before pleading guilty?Yeah, I’ve decided to vent myself as much as I can on this forum now. I wasn’t certain about saying anything but glad I did. The hardest bit will be telling my friends. I’ve only told one person who took it well. The others I’m not so certain. I am looking for other jobs really. Just looking helps pass the time and gives me something to do. Ha! I did grow a beard but then it got itchy and decided to cut it. I think prison will be the time for me to grow a beard. Has anyone on here gone to prison and how has life been since release? I’ll try and take on your other advices as hard as it will be to do. What hobby did you get into doing?

[/quote]

The dreaded knock at about 7am, opened the door to find 2 x plain-clothes officers and 2 x in some kind weird uniform different from your street officer. I actually ignored the knocking at my door for ages because, well, it was 7am in the morning so whoever it is can come back later but then they started banging on my windows and shouting through my letterbox it was the police so of course I needed to get my arse out of bed. They came in and declared he had a warrant to seize all my devices and arrest me on suspicion of downloading indecent images.
I was driven to the station by the 2 plain clothes while the other two ripped my house apart (I wouldn't' know the extent until later), got checked in and dumped in a cell for a while with periodic suicide checks. Eventually I was taken out and offered a face-to-face solicitor but was advised the wait time would be around 10 hours or I could have a phone consultation in the next hour - I chose the phone one. In hindsight it was a bit of a wasted exercise as all they told me was just No Comment the entire way through.
So, during my interview with the police in their little room they got word a couple of images were found so I was officially charged. Dumped back in my cell for a little then maybe an hour or two later I was taken to a nurse to assess me from a mental point of view for release - Basically seeing "As soon as this guy goes home is he going to attempt to off himself". All was generally okay and I was released on an undertaking. In total I was in police custody maybe around 7 or 8 hours? Something like that.
My life then generally carried on like normal for the most part, I went to work, I hung out with friends, all that stuff for around 4 months until I got my first court summons.
Turned up at court without a solicitor and just took the duty solicitor, to their credit they got a lot of the restrictions removed from my undertaking as almost none of them were relevant and some bordered on human rights infringement. The police also caused a delay because they never presented their evidence.
The evidence (discovery) finally came and my solicitor arranged an appointment to go through and put together our plan of attack. So I had a meeting with the solicitor, ran through everything and it was pretty cut and dry although there was quite a lot of mitigation where there was a very, very slim possibility might work in my favour but in the end they advised not to risk it - So I didn't. Pleading guilty was the decision.
Again, off I trot for a while for another few months then court day, the day I plead guilty. Not much happened, I didn't have to really speak or anything, I stood in the box and confirmed my name and sat down. The solicitor did all the talking, at the end I was asked to confirm that I want to go ahead with the guilty plea. It was then passed onto social work for reports.
Another month goes by but I get an appointment with social work. People had warned me about this report and spoken about how invasive it was but I honestly didn't find it all that troubling - The trouble came as a result of the police and social work twisting things that were mentioned in it - but we'll get to that.
So, again. Hanging about picking my bum and killing time. Eventually a new court date is set. I head into court for sentencing, but oh no! Social work have caused a delay because they haven't completed their reports. So it was then postponed for another 2 months.
Final court day, sentencing day. The report was delivered that morning so I had 5 minutes to run through it with my solicitor. The procurator fiscal read it out and the amount of stuff that was twisted and taken out of context was ridiculous all to essentially paint me in a bad light. Such as:

How I would appeal any sentence - Not true, I didn't say that. I was asked in a casual conversation at the end if I would be appealing my sentence. I said no unless it was a custodial as my solicitor believed that wouldn't be suitable and over the top.
How I abuse medication to get through the day - Not true, I rely on medication to enable me to move properly due to back issues otherwise I'm essentially crippled
How I'm seemingly using my deceased fiance as an excuse for my crime - I did no such thing, I mentioned at the time that I believe that was a big tipping point for my spiraling alcohol issues which in turn had led me to pornography addiction and thusly into more illicit material
I have a complete lack of empathy - This again, was taken after the interview was over and was in a more casual setting. We were talking about victims of this offence and I asked how do they quantify that looking at these images causes the people in the images to be abused again as that is one thing I couldn't grasp as it didn't make any sense to me (still doesn't to be honest). They made that out like I didn't care about the victims, which is a very twisted way of what I said and factually not true.

There were a couple of other little bits but those are the main ones that got my blood running in anger.
Anyway, the judge did see through some of that after I was allowed to explain and put some context on it all. I was then sentenced and that was that.

I can't actually tell you the relief I got when the sentence was finally passed and I walked out the court room.

So don't be like me, be super careful when you're going through that social work report if you get one. I could've just had a dodgy police officer and social worker carrying it out but be careful...

The hobby that stuck is music production. Music always has been a huge part of my life and I've played various instruments for many years but never really delved into the recording side of, at least my own. Spent plenty of time in studios. So with the little money I had left I put together a home studio and have spent the last couple of years learning and working on music production - How to record and mix and all that good stuff. Super rewarding and a massive time sink, it also makes me feel super productive when I'm doing it too.

Not to mention the music side of it is a great outlet for what was going on with me around the time of my arrest and stuff.

[/quote]

Hi
Please never take my words as anything other than being open and realistic; never insulting or an attempt to humiliate you in any manner or fashion.
It is always disappointing to read the stories of how others were processed through the system. I do not believe there is many that have had a pleasant, so non-damaging experience.
First I must point out there are two "facts" you must understand so you can build the foundations of progressing with your "life".
[quote]Never stop believing in yourself. [/quote]
At the moment you are feeling the "guilt" of being discovered, but this feeling of "guilt" will dissipate over time. Next will come the "shame" when others become aware of your "lack of control" as that is what it was! That shame will continue longer unless you are able to accept your past and refocus your life in a positive manner.
The term "lack of control" is something everyone does on a daily basis. The issue you and me face is the "subject" we choose to loose it over; SEX. The details of what you did, in certain ways do not matter to society or the media. The fact it is a sexual offence drives the focus towards it.
I am sure you have read/listened to many stories in the media and wonder how do they know that detail; where did they get it from. The answer is simple, they get a little information and use "poetic" language to suggest events but not become liable for come back. Think about the fact they just want to sell newspapers!!
How does the mass of society become informed? Mainly from the above or "social media" sources who just want more followers or/and feel wanted / appreciated, so again the language they use is based on that aim.

Suggestion:
Try to read / listen to sources that are aimed on "self well being". I can 100% suggest you read a book by Paul Gilbert, "The compassionate Mind". It is light in its wording but deep in its content meaning. If necessary do not try to read every page in one go and always reread to fully the meanings behind the content.
Believe in the premise [quote]"The more you get to know yourself the easier it is to talk and describe your thoughts to others so they can assist you to improve that understanding." [/quote]
Consider refraining from reading newspapers, especially tabloids, unless you are able to do so with an understanding of, "if you believe the words they write about others is true then you have to believe what they write about you is true".
Consider deleting your social media; not only from the aspect of others gaining information on / photos of you. Remember any sentence may include banning you from it or at the least constant monitoring of it usage, so getting into the habit of not using it will help you in the long run.
I started running when I was in my late 30's to be closer to my brother. That first step changed my life in so many positive ways but there was negatives. Therefore which ever way you choice to "believe" in yourself understand there will be negative consequences; however do not let them deter you from the fact that your life is becoming more meaningful; as in running, the more you practice the better you become.

[quote]The purpose of the "Justice System" is to WIN with the minimum of effort and by nearly any means[/quote]
Quite simply the purpose of the "system" is to protect society. To do this they have to show they are not only able to stop criminal activity; preferable before it happens, but arrest and convict those choosing to break "societies" rules. As Politian's are measured successful by the votes they gain, the Justice system is measured by its convictions.
There has always been some form of "system" but the "Police" is relatively new in comparison. It is learning and growing, not only in its aim but also its experience of managing different crimes. It is also learning how to convict those offending.
Their techniques have been learned / changed from their lack of success. [quote]The Police are not there to be your friend and so understand your feelings; they are there to prove you did do what you have been accused of![/quote] It is up to you and your defence to prove you did not! That is why the words you use in answering questions have to be considered deeply. Just listen to PM's Question Time or any political debate for lessons.
Of course they have to "abide" by rules but "rules are always able to be "stretched" to meet the needs of those constrained by them. A wonderful quote I found is:
[quote] Righteous laws are created with a praiseworthy intension. However it is the role of the Lawyer to use them in a manner that not only meets their objectives and their advantage, by manipulating the "original" interpretation of their meaning.[/quote]

On this point I will conclude that no matter what you think in retrospect, your memory may/will have been affected by the experience. They should have a recording of your replies to their questions. They will analysis and associate your answers to various not singular questions asked of you to form one overall "answer".
[quote]It is the responsibility of your defence to question their interpretations to ensure your interpretation is accepted.{/quote]

Finally, remember you are not in control of what others will be planning or the type of stress they wish to impose on you. However you are responsible for your actions, the way you respond to their actions. Therefore, be conscious on how you respond, you "manage the administration of the associated admin" that will accumulate and appear to consume you. Be knowledgeable of events i.e. write a diary of past and present events as they occur and keep copies of any and all documentation you create / receive.
This will slowly allow you to focus away from the "actual" past offence by looking forward to your objective, which should be to refocus on accepting your actions to therefore start to "rehabilitate" and so believe in yourself.
Whatever you do, do not give up hope for the simple reason [quote] If a person does not have hope (self belief) what do they have[/quote]

We the Forum, are always here.

RE: Limbo

Was — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:08:32 GMT

I typed a whole screed about my case in reply. I've deleted it.

The best advice I ever got was from the duty solicitor (who I retained throughout.) His first words to me were: "Things might seem like the end of the world right now, but it isn't". He was absolutely right. Things may never be the same, but you'll get through it.

I know some people have had bad experiences with probation, but I genuinely enjoyed my courses. Learn about yourself. You'll be a lot happier if you do.

RE: Limbo

khafka — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 21:17:25 GMT

[quote]

[b]Craniumbre - 25 Jul 22 5:44 PM[/b]

[/quote]

I only had the one initial interview. If you're curious, my basic timeline of events were as follows:

The dreaded knock at about 7am, opened the door to find 2 x plain-clothes officers and 2 x in some kind weird uniform different from your street officer. I actually ignored the knocking at my door for ages because, well, it was 7am in the morning so whoever it is can come back later but then they started banging on my windows and shouting through my letterbox it was the police so of course I needed to get my arse out of bed. They came in and declared he had a warrant to seize all my devices and arrest me on suspicion of downloading indecent images.
I was driven to the station by the 2 plain clothes while the other two ripped my house apart (I wouldn't' know the extent until later), got checked in and dumped in a cell for a while with periodic suicide checks. Eventually I was taken out and offered a face-to-face solicitor but was advised the wait time would be around 10 hours or I could have a phone consultation in the next hour - I chose the phone one. In hindsight it was a bit of a wasted exercise as all they told me was just No Comment the entire way through.
So, during my interview with the police in their little room they got word a couple of images were found so I was officially charged. Dumped back in my cell for a little then maybe an hour or two later I was taken to a nurse to assess me from a mental point of view for release - Basically seeing "As soon as this guy goes home is he going to attempt to off himself". All was generally okay and I was released on an undertaking. In total I was in police custody maybe around 7 or 8 hours? Something like that.
My life then generally carried on like normal for the most part, I went to work, I hung out with friends, all that stuff for around 4 months until I got my first court summons.
Turned up at court without a solicitor and just took the duty solicitor, to their credit they got a lot of the restrictions removed from my undertaking as almost none of them were relevant and some bordered on human rights infringement. The police also caused a delay because they never presented their evidence.
The evidence (discovery) finally came and my solicitor arranged an appointment to go through and put together our plan of attack. So I had a meeting with the solicitor, ran through everything and it was pretty cut and dry although there was quite a lot of mitigation where there was a very, very slim possibility might work in my favour but in the end they advised not to risk it - So I didn't. Pleading guilty was the decision.
Again, off I trot for a while for another few months then court day, the day I plead guilty. Not much happened, I didn't have to really speak or anything, I stood in the box and confirmed my name and sat down. The solicitor did all the talking, at the end I was asked to confirm that I want to go ahead with the guilty plea. It was then passed onto social work for reports.
Another month goes by but I get an appointment with social work. People had warned me about this report and spoken about how invasive it was but I honestly didn't find it all that troubling - The trouble came as a result of the police and social work twisting things that were mentioned in it - but we'll get to that.
So, again. Hanging about picking my bum and killing time. Eventually a new court date is set. I head into court for sentencing, but oh no! Social work have caused a delay because they haven't completed their reports. So it was then postponed for another 2 months.
Final court day, sentencing day. The report was delivered that morning so I had 5 minutes to run through it with my solicitor. The procurator fiscal read it out and the amount of stuff that was twisted and taken out of context was ridiculous all to essentially paint me in a bad light. Such as:

How I would appeal any sentence - Not true, I didn't say that. I was asked in a casual conversation at the end if I would be appealing my sentence. I said no unless it was a custodial as my solicitor believed that wouldn't be suitable and over the top.
How I abuse medication to get through the day - Not true, I rely on medication to enable me to move properly due to back issues otherwise I'm essentially crippled
How I'm seemingly using my deceased fiance as an excuse for my crime - I did no such thing, I mentioned at the time that I believe that was a big tipping point for my spiraling alcohol issues which in turn had led me to pornography addiction and thusly into more illicit material
I have a complete lack of empathy - This again, was taken after the interview was over and was in a more casual setting. We were talking about victims of this offence and I asked how do they quantify that looking at these images causes the people in the images to be abused again as that is one thing I couldn't grasp as it didn't make any sense to me (still doesn't to be honest). They made that out like I didn't care about the victims, which is a very twisted way of what I said and factually not true.

There were a couple of other little bits but those are the main ones that got my blood running in anger.
Anyway, the judge did see through some of that after I was allowed to explain and put some context on it all. I was then sentenced and that was that.

RE: Limbo

switchr — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:42:12 GMT

Have you thought of getting psychological help to look at why you looked at child sexual abuse images? I've done that in the last year since the Knock, and found it really enlightening and helpful. Its given me a toolkit to ensure I don't reoffend and the peer support aspect has been so important. I am also really hopeful the judge will see I've done these programmes of my own volition and take that into mitigation.

There are programmes for sex offenders, you've mentioned Lucy Faithful which does the Inform Plus. There's also..

Safer Lives: https://www.saferlives.com/
Aurora Project: http://www.saferlivingfoundation.org/what-we-do/adult-projects/aurora-project/
StopSO: https://stopso.org.uk/

I've done all four of these programmes and it's been a life changing experience. Would recommend.

RE: Limbo

Mr W — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:22:37 GMT

Welcome Switchflip, glad you've found this forum! Khafka is spot on. There are so many people who have been where you are and there are many more going through it now, I’ve no doubt. Reaching out, like you have here, is one of the best things you can do for yourself and others.

The wait varies on where you are in the country but it’s often well over a year. My wait was about a year-and-a-half but that was before the pandemic, I carried on in my job and just saved and saved. If you’re able to earn, do it, it’ll help keep your mind focused on something else too.

On a practical note one thing I did which I’d recommend to everyone in the post-knock ‘waiting’ time is Google image search yourself and get rid of as many pictures of you as you can. Your future self will thank you for it. Make all your social media profiles private or even delete profiles if they’re not worth keeping. The ones you do keep, change your profile pictures to something generic. It takes a while for them to drop off Google but by the time the big day came there was only one left of me on there. I tried to get rid of it but couldn’t and a vigilante site still managed to find it, luckily the press didn’t.

I’m glad to hear your friend has stuck by you and by all means come and vent here. Stick with Lucy Faithful, they have a sobering tone. It sounds weird but I’d never talked out loud about it all before, so to start talking about it felt very weird and they help with that. All efforts you make to tackle the question of ‘why’ will really help you in your defence in court. It’s a rocky road ahead but making some good moves now will help you in the long run.

RE: Limbo

Craniumbre — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 17:44:33 GMT

Thanks. That is a pretty good reply and better than what I’ve heard or received over the past two months. I still feel the damage I’ve done goes beyond images and that I am looking at a prison sentence even though I have not yet been charged. I’m mentally prepared for prison. The hardest bit has been not having spoken to other people who has been through it or are going through it and your responses helps that way rather than talking to professionals who handles situations like this. The discovery section is really helpful. That didn’t come to mind so will be something for me to think and prepare about. Did you go through those with your solicitor before the interview with the police and how many interviews did you have in total before pleading guilty? Yeah, I’ve decided to vent myself as much as I can on this forum now. I wasn’t certain about saying anything but glad I did. The hardest bit will be telling my friends. I’ve only told one person who took it well. The others I’m not so certain. I am looking for other jobs really. Just looking helps pass the time and gives me something to do. Ha! I did grow a beard but then it got itchy and decided to cut it. I think prison will be the time for me to grow a beard. Has anyone on here gone to prison and how has life been since release? I’ll try and take on your other advices as hard as it will be to do. What hobby did you get into doing?

RE: Limbo

khafka — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 16:25:02 GMT

Hey there,

Welcome, we're happy to have you here. You'll find most of the regular users here are for images and/or sexual offences so there's absolutely no judgment here and we also know what you're going through as we've all been in your position.

You haven't mentioned if the police have actually found anything or if you've been charged but given the rest of your post where you appear to own up to it I'm going to assume if they haven't found anything yet they potentially will. I won't sugar coat it, the early stages are grim and uncomfortable to go through.

I remember getting my discovery and going through it with my solicitor and I was cringing and wincing all the way through it, it was almost like it wasn't actually me I was looking at, I couldn't believe it. Very weird feeling. But that for me was easily one of the hardest things of the whole situation was coming face-to-face with it. Saying "Oh yeah I did it" is one thing but actually seeing the file names and stuff made me super uncomfortable.

The waiting around also sucks, from arrest to sentence I was about a year almost to the day.

While the investigation was on going for me I just carried on with my life and kept it to myself and tried to for as long as possible then eventually when I pleaded guilty I was reported about in a local paper which then hit my work and needless to say I was let go pretty promptly. I would've honestly suggested this tactic as with you stepping down from your role you'll not be eligible for Universal Credit/income support as you made the choice to leave so unless you are secure financially I think this will be a struggle for you. My solicitor helped me wipe out my savings with their fees so I'm now left with debt after having to get a loan to help pay for more costs.

Now, as for getting through it - Luckily I found this forum (back before it had a little wobble and stopped working) which helped. It was great to have someone who had experienced what I was going through, even just as a means to vent about everything that's going on. I also took a dive into some new hobbies, one of which I'm getting pretty decent at if I don't say so myself.

My biggest advice for now is to not let yourself rot away, keep yourself tidy, your home tidy, all of that - bathing regularly and all that. I don't want to jump to conclusions but I'm going to assume you're male based on the high percentage of these sorts of offences being carried out by males - So that means if you have a beard, keep it trim like you normally would. Or clean shaven. Or if you fancy it, actually try grow a beard, see how you get on! That can also be a way to help you transition a bit - I completely changed how I looked when it all crashed for me and I feel much better for it, it was almost like 'killing' the old version of me.

Letting yourself and your home slowly rot away will create nothing but further negativity in your life and that's the last thing you need right now. Might I also suggest getting a house plant? That can help give you a sense of purpose again and gives you something to care for and take your mind off things a bit. It sounds super stupid but it did a world of good for me. Otherwise you're just sitting around worrying which will not solve anything or produce any positive results. Worrying is like sitting on a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.