theForum » Criminal record checks for employment (including DBS checks) » How the Disclosure and Barring Service works » Standard and enhanced DBS checks » New name, new DBS?!

New name, new DBS?!

Mr W — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 14:26:18 GMT

A story I saw on the news today... A lady was jailed for killing the man who abused her sons.
She's now out of prison and wants more restrictions for offenders and she speaks about the ability to change your legal name.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0dj4vsx/the-big-cases-killing-my-childrens-abuser

I know it's not the main part of the story but at 21:45 the MP talks about changing names and that a new name would mean a clean DBS - is that right?!

RE: New name, new DBS?!

Mr W — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 14:26:18 GMT

Thanks, JASB.
Thanks AB2014, this one is not enhanced, but that's very interesting to know.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

AB2014 — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 11:08:18 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 26 Oct 23 5:47 PM[/b]

Quick Q. Will my ppu be notified that I'm having a DBS check for a job? Not sure how DBS system works. Thanks.

[/quote]

They will only be told if it is an enhanced DBS check and you are on the relevant barred list. Otherwise, they are not involved.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

JASB — Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:53:58 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 26 Oct 23 5:47 PM[/b]

Quick Q. Will my ppu be notified that I'm having a DBS check for a job? Not sure how DBS system works. Thanks.

[/quote]

hi no idea but i hope you are successful with the job application.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

Mr W — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 17:47:39 GMT

Quick Q. Are ppus notified about a DBS check? Not sure how DBS system works. Thanks.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

JASB — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:04:33 GMT

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[b]Mr W - 24 Nov 22 4:16 AM[/b]

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Hi I changed mine and all that happens is your record is changed, this is still the same record i.e. historical data is still there including your old details. It is just the same as all old addresses, bank details are still retained when they are changed.

More importantly in my opinion this is again just trying to defend those who are not undertaking their duties responsibilities correctly and blaming the easy target - the SO!
If the DBS checks are undertaken correctly, someone's name would at the very least highlight the name(s) for a possible link and further investigation.

Just think how many "Joe Smith" are out there!! There is hardly any name that is unique.

Again this particular female (the complainer) is trying to use the "Victim" sympathy aspect to remove the crime she committed! You imagine a man trying to do the same and so gain the sympathy of the media and MP's!

Anyone and everyone can be a victim but it doesn't mean you should be allowed to take the punishment into your own hands. If this was allowed the illegal hunters would have a field day; remember last month the gang murdering the wrongly identified man!!

RE: New name, new DBS?!

AB2014 — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 15:45:56 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 2 Mar 23 3:18 PM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 2 Mar 23 11:46 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 2 Mar 23 10:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 1 Mar 23 6:07 PM[/b]

This MP is back again, calling the ability to change your name a 'scandal'.

The Google effect, a private American company deciding the fates of people's lives and careers, is a scandal.
Vigilantes effectively making a 'public register' by copying newspaper stories on an online searchable 'database' is a scandal.
But of course nothing about that is mentioned in the article, but both are two of many reasons to change your name, especially after being in the press.

There is one line of sense, thanks to LFF:
Donald Findlater, director at the Lucy Faithfull Foundation charity, which is dedicated to preventing child sexual abuse, said some offenders changed their name to build a better life and not offend in future, or to "protect their family from the stigma of their identity".

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The fault surely lies with the DBS checking process. They ought to have some way of finding out if a person has changed their name, but it sounds as if they just take the persons word for it, if they say they are not known by another name. The simplest way of checking is to look at the National Insurance Number. A quick cross check with DWP records will show their last known address and even people they lived with.

To completely disappear, you need a new NINO, not just a new name.

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I don't know if it still applies, but I'm old (ancient?) enough to remember a scandal about fraudsters using the ID of a dead person, as at that time deaths weren't cross-referenced against births. So, if you appeared to be in the right age group, you could change your name to the dead person's, get a birth certificate in that name, then use that to build a new ID for yourself. I'm not suggesting that, of course, just saying that you might not actually need to change your name, you would just steal the ID of someone who can't do anything about it and effectively become that person. The trail of the former ID would go cold very quickly.

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It certainly is possible to create a new identity, but what Sarah Champion and the other campaigners are saying is that it is just a simple matter of changing your name by deed poll. That's only one small part of the process.

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Yes, but if you adopt a real identity, settle into your new life, get to know people and then eventually get a countersignatory for a passport application in your new name, the world is your oyster. Of course, if all those many thousands of deaths have since been cross-referenced with the relevant birth records, this route is effectively closed.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

punter99 — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 15:18:57 GMT

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[b]AB2014 - 2 Mar 23 11:46 AM[/b]

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[b]punter99 - 2 Mar 23 10:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 1 Mar 23 6:07 PM[/b]

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RE: New name, new DBS?!

AB2014 — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 11:46:28 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 2 Mar 23 10:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 1 Mar 23 6:07 PM[/b]

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RE: New name, new DBS?!

punter99 — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 10:57:08 GMT

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[b]Mr W - 1 Mar 23 6:07 PM[/b]

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RE: New name, new DBS?!

Mr W — Wed, 01 Mar 2023 18:07:28 GMT

RE: New name, new DBS?!

JASB — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 14:44:17 GMT

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[b]punter99 - 29 Nov 22 11:26 AM[/b]

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[b]JASB - 26 Nov 22 4:24 PM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 24 Nov 22 4:16 AM[/b]

A story I saw on the news today. A lady was jailed for killing the man who abused her sons.
She's now out of prison and wants more restrictions for offenders, and she speaks about the ability to change your legal name.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0dj4vsx/the-big-cases-killing-my-childrens-abuser

I know it's not the main part of the story, but at 21:45 the MP talks about changing names and that a new name would mean a clean DBS - is that right?!

[/quote]

Not telling the authorities you have changed your name is illogical as you would also change your passport, bank details, and so many other admin aspects of life which you are required to notify the authorities about so they would see you have.

If you are aiming to do a runner then eventually the "investigation" through the info they already know would give them the leads to your new ID. High level example, closing and withdrawing your monies from a bank account. I assume a lot would be in the account as pointless running if only a small amount, so how are you going to open a new one without suspicion? If you transferred it to another person that would be tracked and links to anything going out from that account investigated.

Known of us are James Bond with multi ID's or friends that can care for us in hiding; are we?

If you really think about it your offence and supervision must be "really bad" to consider it; especially with the consequences that may follow.

Chasing Votes?
As ever those who can will shout about things knowing that even if they are wrong, they will gain support for them!
everyone knows that even if they apologise the report will be hidden in the small print of the 20th page.....

The ex-offender who is calling for this could be accused on trying to deflect attention from her offence; interestingly the female Judge actually stated the female had gone to the victim's home with a knife and the attention of at least GBH!!!! However forbid for anyone to suggest she is in "denial".
But heck, there are so many inappropriate comments that could be said about that ex-offender, but I feel they would be seen as an insult to all us ex-offenders.

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The claim made by the MP, was that changing your name by deed poll allows you to get a new driving licence and new passport, which can then be used to get through dbs checks. If somebody was determined to re offend, then they might go to these lengths, even if most people would not.

But I would have thought there are other checks in place, to prevent people getting driving licences and new passports in different names. For example asking for birth certs and national insurance numbers, which are unique and can be traced back to the person's original name. I believe there is also a marker placed on the person's records at the passport office, when they become an SO, which alerts the police, if they try to get a new passport.

So there are already checks and balances in place, which should make it impossible to trick the dbs and that is why stopping SO from changing their names is not really necessary.

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As always I think we both agree not only on the stupidity of the MP but there are processes both known and unknown to us that will assist the authorities.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

JASB — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 14:41:37 GMT

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[b]Mr W - 2 Dec 22 3:39 PM[/b]

I understand we live in a cynical world and obviously, there is that thought about doing something like that to reoffend but I was coming at this from a slightly different angle. Self-preservation if nothing else.

If we're serious about being able to start a new career, I think there is a temptation of being able to construct our 'second chance' (if you want to call it that) as fair as possible. While being trusted to make responsible decisions (I know... god forbid!) about not considering jobs that would frown upon the past but giving ourselves the best chance of getting *that* job that would help us make our future a little more secure. For example, going for a project lead job at an energy company.

In other countries, if you apply for a banking job, for example, they will only check for money-related crimes on DBS, not anything and everything as we do here. In this country we're not that lucky, so do we have to make our own luck? Even though the crime I want rid of seems to affect people's ability to move forward in such different ways, I refuse to accept that what is on my DBS means my CV might as well be blank and have me languishing on minimum wage forever more. Yolo and all that...

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Hi
As we write I am emailing my request to have my sopo dismissed.
In that I have included a report on a female undertaking the same application BUT also all media reporting used only her name etc at the time of the offence NOT her new details. the Court and her PPU approved of this.

My PPU agree but we will have to wait and see if the Court/Judge also sees the "benefits" for this; never mind the security concerns as we all have and will continue to raise.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

Mr W — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 15:39:24 GMT

RE: New name, new DBS?!

punter99 — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:26:33 GMT

[quote]

[b]JASB - 26 Nov 22 4:24 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 24 Nov 22 4:16 AM[/b]

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RE: New name, new DBS?!

JASB — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:24:05 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 24 Nov 22 4:16 AM[/b]

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RE: New name, new DBS?!

punter99 — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:42:37 GMT

The real question here is what benefit did the offender get from changing ther name and how did it contribute to them re offending? The MP incorrectly assumes that offenders only change their names for one reason, which is so they can re offend. She also assumes that it is the name change that made the offending possible, but this isn't the case, because there are other checks, particularly on SO, which make changing your name ineffective, such as the requirement to inform the police of ALL names you are known by, including all online user names and the requirement to inform the police any change in your address.

People do disappear, and I guess an SO could go off the grid, by paying for everything in cash for example, but the MP is simply naive and wrong to assume that stopping SO from changing their names, which is what she wants to do, will prevent them ever offending again. Those who want to, will always fnd a way.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

AB2014 — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:11:56 GMT

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[b]khafka - 24 Nov 22 11:05 AM[/b]

It seems a bit murky when I was looking into it a couple of years ago but the short answer seems to be "No, that MP is speaking rubbish".

When you apply for a DBS certificate you need to mention previous names (like Maiden names/previous marriage etc.). You should also be updating the DBS system when you change your name too although the murky bit seems to be that there isn't a legal requirement to do so.

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While you're on the SOR, you have to notify your new name to the police, but after that it's not so clear. As there are different ways to change your name, it is unlikely that the police will find out unless you tell them or you are arrested for something.

RE: New name, new DBS?!

khafka — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 11:05:52 GMT