theForum » Other areas » Emotional support » The need to off-load

The need to off-load

Steadfast — Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:48:50 GMT

Hello all,
I have been going through a bit of a tough time, so felt that I would add to the positivity of this section.

I am writing this for my own wellbeing/ therapy. Sorry f it drags on but I need somewhere to vent!

About 15 years ago I was arrested, charged and found guilty of an offence. A follow-up conviction followed. It was pretty widely reported, and although I am deeply shamed and sorry for my actions, the convictions and the following media coverage were far from representative. My actions were made to seem magnatudes more horrific than they were. It was a tough time, but thanks to a strong family I managed to get through it and found a job.

I done all the things one should, complied to the letter. People I dealt with from social workers to Police officers from that point were hugely supportive - one police officcers even stated that it was a "waste of their time" coming to see me, but despite enjoying a chat there were better things they could be doing with their time.Work was basic and repetitive to start, but managed to work my way up in the company to something more intresting and representative of my skills. I applied for a middle-managment job elsewhere and got it. I stayed at that organisation for just over a year before being asked to apply for another at a rival employer- I did and got that job.

This is when a few strange things happened. I got called into a meeting with my line manager and HR director (terrifying!), they stated they had been sent information regarding my convictions from an 'anonymous source' and asked if it was true. I stated it was and offered to answer any questions they had. My managers response was "No, it's fine. We are more than pleased with the job you are doing." They went on to state that they had wondered whether they should tell me about this, but decided it was fair to do so. So life continued as normal. There came wholesale change - and as a result after 4 and a bit years my job changed, and my team moved on. I was asked by another company to apply work a job with them - so I did. I got the job.

Furig this time odd things started to happen. One day the police called me to ask if I was OK. It turned out someone had called them to saying I was bout to take my own life - the police were even at my home although I was on holiday. Other malicious things started happening too. The police seemed unintrested and done nothing.

The new job was going OK. I had relationship issues with my line manager, but was working over these. I had went on holiday for a few days, came back to find my probation was being terminated due to my past. Ofcourse, this changed pretty quickly to "performance issues", no doubt when HR thought about the RoOA. Because of my conviction type, the Union were unintrested too.. Moreover, news of my conviction has spread somewhat through the sites of my previous emplyers and my work-based friendship circles. I have literally lost everything I worked hard to rebuild.

So, I have been unemployed for the last few months. My finances are absoluetly shot - I believe I can survive for another couple of months on savings etc. I have debt - it was all easily managable on my previous wage, but not now. I am massively isolated, my mental health is not good. I keep applying for work, but I can't apply for anything with a CR check (almost everything seems care based at the moment), or anything that relies on my previous employer to give a reference - because of the situation. I want to work, but the sutters have totally come down.

Anyway... on a positive note, at least the rain has stopped :)

RE: The need to off-load

Mr W — Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:48:50 GMT

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[b]AB2014 - 12 Sep 23 10:25 AM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 8 Sep 23 3:03 PM[/b]

Steadfast - There's a ban the box list that Unlock updates, and a couple of other links that might be helpful:
https://unlock.org.uk/advice/ban-the-box-employers (There's a list there that also explains the latest time to disclose too)
https://www.ex-seed.co.uk/recommended-companies.html
https://www.personnelchecks.co.uk/latest-news/job-with-a-criminal-record

With regards to being told to 'go self-employed'... It is advice, but it is a bit of a get out because they know it's not easy to do that. Especially if people don't have the skills that we do.
Re: Facebook, I'm on there, police know. As long as there is nothing on your SHPO about social media, your username is registered, there's nothing stopping you being on there. I have to say, I've never used it for self-employed stuff though, it's just all noise and stupid videos now. LinkedIn is probably a better way to go and the police should certainly not have a problem you being on there.
Building everything from scratch takes time, you need clients and reviews, I've been at it for a few years now and only have some reviews. I sell my skills, so that's something I'm able to do from home on a computer though. It's not going out and doing garden landscaping for example. It's hard and no quick path to becoming a millionaire but it keeps money coming in *right now* and helps the ever-increasing outgoings. Is it sustainable forever? Probably not / maybe depending on what it is you do, but it means I can fill that gap on my CV since my life blew up. It's also worth mentioning when your mental health takes a kicking, there's no paid time off, which then adds to the stress because if you're not working, you're not earning, and that's just as true without a criminal record.
As for 'guaranteed interviews', a course I did earlier this year also 'guaranteed' an interview, a few of us were a bit annoyed that it didn't happen. Plenty of smiling faces, pointing towards job ads, confidence building and help with the CV, but no interview. The people on that course were just 'normal' people, by which I mean no criminal record, just job seekers. So there are people out there struggling too who don't have the barriers we do.

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The Ban the Box list is actually updated by Business in the Community. You can find their latest list here.

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Thanks AB, that's helpful.
I guess the thing to bear in mind is there are still some on that list I would suspect would not accept people with certain types of offences because of what they do (that's not necessarily a criticism of them), but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:25:09 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 8 Sep 23 3:03 PM[/b]

[/quote]

The Ban the Box list is actually updated by Business in the Community. You can find their latest list here.

RE: The need to off-load

Mr W — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:19:06 GMT

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 11 Sep 23 10:41 AM[/b]

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[b]Mr W - 8 Sep 23 3:03 PM[/b]

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Unless you have changed your name, isn't there going to be a problem with promoting yourself through Linkedin, or any social media platform? If they can find you on there, then they can google your offence too.

The other potential issue, is that if you work in a relatively small industry, where everyone knows everyone else, then word about your conviction will soon spread and employers will blacklist you.

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You can register another name with the police and use that online without changing it by deed poll.
As one ppu said to me, unironically, "You can call yourself Father Christmas if you like, as long as we know about it."
Obvs, it depends on what type of work you're looking for. I've been building that alternative name up with freelance stuff online. Again, with the self-employed/freelance stuff, no checks etc and using a generic profile picture if one is needed.
The scary bit was giving out bank details, because it's a different name, but nobody has asked why it's different so far. Or work through platforms like Upwork etc the money goes through the platform and I do self-assessments every year.
The things we have to put up with just to live a law-abiding life and constantly dodge bullets, it's insane, but I couldn't think of a different way to get away from the Google effect and be able to refer to my old jobs and experience without fear.
In my case, because I had an odd name: Old name plus company I worked for = newspaper, newspaper, newspaper. New name and company = nothing and my LinkedIn looks a lot better.
I realise it's trickier for in-person jobs but if you have to deal with the Google effect, that will come with its own barriers anyway whether you're called Father Christmas or not.

RE: The need to off-load

punter99 — Mon, 11 Sep 2023 10:41:22 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 8 Sep 23 3:03 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

JASB — Sun, 10 Sep 2023 15:20:45 GMT

Hi
Many will know my "line" about applying for roles over the years then offers rescinded when disclosure is made. Sometimes it is the HR rules; not they could show me were it was stated in the "Terms and Conditions" but my experienece has show me there is always a line that covers "everything".
Sometimes it is laziness; BAE for example, the hiring PM wanted me, knew of my offence but didn't care as the project needed my skill set and said they could justify me in the "security assessment". However the extra effort required of them in the end turned into a "can't be bothered" attitude; their words not mine so that was the end of that.

I know I walked away from every interview knowing I had maintained my self esteem and integrity no matter the result. I was not searching for "pity or forgiveness", in fact quite the opposite; I just desired to show that a "label doesn't define the character of an individual!"

As we all know, there is no single path we can all follow to gain whatever we define as a "successful outcome". That does not mean that we should not follow a well worn path; we just need to have the self belief to turn onto a new path if that feels "positive".

RE: The need to off-load

Mr W — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:03:40 GMT

RE: The need to off-load

xDanx — Thu, 07 Sep 2023 02:15:40 GMT

[quote]

[b]Steadfast - 6 Sep 23 12:48 PM[/b]

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 6 Sep 23 10:58 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 6 Sep 23 7:51 AM[/b]

So... life seems to be going from bad to worse. I have applied for a number of jobs, got to the final stages of a few, but always seem to suddenly get dropped - its become apparent my 'history' is getting around. My former employer is giving a 'factual reference' (basically stating my role and dates worked), but I believe (with no proof, sadly) they are 'unofficially' passing on the conviction information. So from an emotional point of view... I'm quite messed up.

Financially, my savings are disappearing and in a few months I wont be able to pay my debts. My debts aren't huge, and were more than manageable when I was working. My mental health has completely gone down the toilet - I am fortunate my family are supportive, however they shouldn't be required to support me either emotionally or financially.

I was reading in the press about someone convicted of an offence who was "let off easily" being given a community sentence... people really have no idea. There is nothing easy having to deal with this for the rest of your life.

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If it were your conviction that was the issue, then why did they let you go through to the later stages of the process? Why not just bin your application straight away?

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I am applying for jobs which I don't have a requirement to disclose anything. The issue is, there seems to be people out there that are causing issues for me.

One thing I have found - and I don't know if others have found similar - that when I was disclosing in the box, often they would progress you almost ignoring 'the box', but come back to it at a later stage. I did find that odd. I am aware that many companies systems withhold personal information until an offer is to be made, so I assume it's in an attempt to minimise discrimination.

[/quote]

Time and time again over the years, I have been told "you should run your own business" "go self employed". This is something I have looked into and participated in various courses to learn more. I have decided that this path just is not for me for a number of reasons.

1. To make my business known, I am to heavily rely on social media to "spread the word". Facebook being the popular choice for many businesses, their policy states that no sex offender can use Facebook and if found, will be removed.
2. I am unlikely to set up shop in my local area on the off chance someone who I am known too, can easily spread word making it almost impossible to attract customers.
3. The lack of experience over all, I have many skills but hardly any hands on experience.

To keep myself busy I have applied for many training courses, some I was accepted in to, others I was not. The sad part is that those I was rejected from were for those offering guaranteed interviews with a high probability of getting the job. This is why I am currently fighting to have my SHPO discharged entirely. (court date soon, but I am not hopeful it will go the way I want but may likely get amendments)

What you are going through right now in terms of finding work, has been the one thing I have avoided for my own mental health. Being constantly rejected over and over again does nothing for any one's mental health even with out convictions getting in the way.
I am mentally the strongest I have ever been, when things become tough sometimes its just best to let go, embrace life for how it is and notice what positives you have still going in life, give yourself time to work the problem and find solutions, more importantly keep doing the things you enjoy and have fun doing.

If you need more to do to help pass the time and to keep your mind busy, look around for courses you can do. While you are unemployed, looking into improving your skills, I have recently been working on my Math (which I passed) and I will probably keep on working on it including my English. This is also "getting me out there" and socializing. I understand the fear of meeting someone who may know you and could say something, but you have to put that in the back of your mind.

As for your finances, are you currently receiving benefits? or are you purely living off your savings?

RE: The need to off-load

Steadfast — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:48:45 GMT

[quote]

[b]punter99 - 6 Sep 23 10:58 AM[/b]

[quote]

[b]Steadfast - 6 Sep 23 7:51 AM[/b]

[/quote]

If it were your conviction that was the issue, then why did they let you go through to the later stages of the process? Why not just bin your application straight away?

[/quote]

RE: The need to off-load

punter99 — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:58:12 GMT

[quote]

[b]Steadfast - 6 Sep 23 7:51 AM[/b]

[/quote]

If it were your conviction that was the issue, then why did they let you go through to the later stages of the process? Why not just bin your application straight away?

RE: The need to off-load

Steadfast — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 07:51:46 GMT

RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:08:27 GMT

[quote]

[b]david123 - 28 Jul 23 10:14 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 12:25 PM[/b]

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[b]david123 - 27 Jul 23 10:39 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

Thanks for the reply's.
I done everything right. I changed my name and moved away - so someone really has went to some effort to 'out' me!
I, again, done all the right thing regarding google. I waited until convictions were spent and requested they be removed. The response was that they wouldn't remove them as they were 'in the public's intrest'.
I know where I am - I know I need to start again. I know I can do it, but its exhausting and I really don't know how much mental resolve I have to keep going through this.
I am always a big believer in the concept of Karma - I know I done something wrong quite some time agao, but I have done lots and lots of good things since. I am not asking for forgiveness from anyone, all I want is to live some sort of lifae and pay my way.

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We've had reports of this "public interest" claim before. It might be worth involving the ICO, even if they do have a backlog. There are no guarantees, except that if you don't involve them you won't make any progress.

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I've tried a couple times to get links for my name to certain vigilante websites removed but each time the ICO have agreed with Google that there is a 'public interest' reason' for not removing them. Waste of time!

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I don't know if the convictions were spent when you complained to the ICO, but if they were still unspent then they almost certainly wouldn't help you. Sometimes, though, they do seem to refuse to act even when the convictions are spent. That was a particular problem for one guy on here who lives in Scotland. His conviction is spent there, but they still wouldn't help him. Not sure if that was because they base their decisions on the law in England & Wales or if it was personal prejudice by individuals affecting their professional decisions.

[/quote]

The conviction is spent and my SHPO has been dismissed 5 years early with the police consent but still Google and the ICO say there is still a public interest reason for not unlinking my name to theses vigilante sites!

[/quote]

The only thing I can think is that if you are still on the SOR they're using that as their justification. It doesn't tally with what the previous commissioner said, but I doubt they're losing any sleep over that.

RE: The need to off-load

david123 — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 10:14:56 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 12:25 PM[/b]

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[b]david123 - 27 Jul 23 10:39 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

Mr W — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 15:38:03 GMT

[quote]

[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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I can totally relate to the frustration of just wanting to get on with your life. It's disappointing to hear you're still having to deal with this after 1) being spent, 2) changed your name and 3) moved elsewhere. I don't understand how someone can still make the link when, as you say, you've done so much to protect yourself.
What I will say is you have shown great resilience and ability to get back on the horse already and you're not alone with these unfair, because they are unfair, scenarios.
As you can tell by the responses, there's lots of people here who understand and will all help if we can.

RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 15:00:53 GMT

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[b]khafka - 27 Jul 23 2:43 PM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 12:25 PM[/b]

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[b]david123 - 27 Jul 23 10:39 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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I'm going to assume you're maybe talking about me there?
Aye, ICO weren't much use at all. I've actually tried twice to get my name removed and both times failed.

The first time I was quite fresh-faced and still serving my sentence and it was denied (not to mention they ended up doxing me to the vigilante Facebook and that website), my complaint wasn't ever properly resolved to my satisfaction but at that time I just didn't have the mental energy to spend on it.

The second time my conviction was classed as spent (although I was still on the register) and Google and then subsequently ICO both told me they couldn't due to public interest - When I reached back to get them to define what they mean by public interest and the threshold for it I got radio silence.

As of this year my sentence is obviously still spent, I'm off the register and back to being a 'free' man as it were. I'm sure I'll try tackle it again at some point but I honestly don't know what else I can do about it.

[/quote]

It was you I had in mind, but I don't like to name names in that context. I strongly suspect that you were the victim of Anglo-centric ignorance (I'm English, so I can say that, BTW) and a failure by them to investigate properly. Hopefully, once you meet the "English" threshold, they'll finally get round to doing what they should have done some time ago.

RE: The need to off-load

khafka — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:43:40 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 12:25 PM[/b]

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[b]david123 - 27 Jul 23 10:39 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:25:59 GMT

[quote]

[b]david123 - 27 Jul 23 10:39 AM[/b]

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[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

david123 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:39:47 GMT

[quote]

[b]AB2014 - 27 Jul 23 8:57 AM[/b]

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 08:57:37 GMT

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[b]Steadfast - 26 Jul 23 4:06 PM[/b]

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RE: The need to off-load

Steadfast — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:11 GMT

RE: The need to off-load

AB2014 — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 11:26:14 GMT

[quote]

[b]Mr W - 24 Jul 23 2:41 PM[/b]

Hi steadfast,

Fiirst of all welcome, I’m glad you’ve found this forum if you needed space to vent, by all means, vent away! Plenty of people here can understand or sympathise with difficulties when it comes to employment. It’s such a shame that the wheels have come off for some reason when you’ve been doing the right things. It sounds like you’ve done incredibly well post-conviction to hold down as much work as you have, so far. So be proud of yourself for that.

Just a thought, have you changed your name? You mentioned being in the papers, is it because of the Google effect that this has happened?

With the skills you have, is there any chance you could start something yourself as self-employed / start your own business?

I’m sure you’ve thought of this already, but the employer who was aware of the conviction and happy with your work, can they help? Just a few thoughts.
Anyway, as far as isolated, make sure you’re getting out, going for a coffee or a longer walk around for a food shop or something, little things to keep you from staying in (Which is so easy to do these days). Keep us posted on how you’re getting on.

[/quote]

Another question to ask is whether your conviction is spent (under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act). If it is, then you can ask Google to remove links to webpages that contain information about it. There is some scepticism on here about that process, but once the conviction is spent, you are more likely to get those links removed from search results. You can read more about that on Unlock's website here. If you can get those links removed, it makes it that much harder for anyone new to find that information online, and also makes denial more plausible. If your conviction is spent, you don't have to disclose it for a basic DBS check, so please make sure you don't over-disclose.

RE: The need to off-load

Mr W — Mon, 24 Jul 2023 14:41:12 GMT

Hi steadfast,

Just a thought, have you changed your name? You mentioned being in the papers, is it because of the Google effect that this has happened?

With the skills you have, is there any chance you could start something yourself as self-employed / start your own business?