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Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Btur — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi I am thinking of applying for University as a mature student ( Im 56!) and having spoken to a couple of course heads I am confident I would get a place. However I have a conviction for a serious offence. What I would like help with, is if you tick the criminal convictions box, what happens after that? What exactly is the process? Also, I would also be a Google away from being embarrassed.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

NigelV2 — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Good luck on the course :)
I studied an Art degree and had to declare my convictions, I didn't get rejected but they only agreed on the deadline date for places. Conditions were not living in student accommodation etc. again nothing that bothered me.
Finished my degree last year (with a first :))), only down side was that during the last month, someone googled my name and found out about my past. Lost a few friends, but could have been worse.
Since then I've gone through a few things - just waiting for new passport as I've changed my name and looking forward (with a bit of trepidation) to a new start :)

It's always worth giving things a go - hard work is sometimes rewarded by great opportunities!

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Deb S — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi RM

This is absolutely fantastic news - a great Easter present for you.

Hope it all goes really well for you.

Deb

Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*FINAL UPDATE*

Hello Everyone. Just to confirm that the University sent through a formal offer of a place on the course last week and today I emailed my acceptance. It's official - I'm in. I guess I had a (very irrational) fear that they would change their mind and withdraw the offer - pessimistic I know - so I wanted to wait until I had the formal offer in my hand (or my inbox at least). Now I've got it, it feels real.

I hope my story encourages those of you out there in a similar position. Never, never give up because it will work out for good in the end.

RM

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hello JohnL

Thanks for your post. The nature of the conditions will probably not come as any surprise: they simply restrict my access to places like the University Creche and Sports Centre. Not really a problem as I want to study - not get a six pack!

The DBS appeal process has been covered well by other folks on the Forum (cut and paste the thread below into your browser - I think you have contributed already).

https://forum.unlock.org.uk/default.aspx?f=39&m=25680&g=27052#m27052

My own experience is very similar. I was notified by what was then called the ISA that I had been included on the Barred Lists and I had a limited period of time to make representations to be removed. They sent through all the documentation they had received to date. This packet can include a wide range of data, from your entry on the PNC to minutes from safeguarding meetings about behaviour, Police interviews and so on. Don't be surprised about how much information they provide and where it comes from - it is all part of the process.

Write a factual, evidence-based document that shows you are not a risk of future offending/recidivism. Don't write in a whining, 'It's not fair, I've been treated so harshly' tone - they don't care. All they are interested in is assessing any future risk you may pose. All your representations should be geared towards addressing this understandable concern. Make clear you have taken responsibility for your choices and have sought to address your offending behaviour. Give context and where your offending behaviour sits on the sliding scale as defined by Sentencing Guidelines used by both Magistrates and Judges. Was it out of character? Were there other victims? Has there been similar offending in the past? Are you genuinely remorseful? Use reports and insight from external sources if at all possible to corroborate all this. For example, Probation Reports, TVSOC Reports, Therapist reports (I paid to see a private therapist and she was willing to write a detailed reference) as well as character references from people who know you and can help the DBS see the bigger picture of who you are.

Once you have put together your case, ask two or three trusted people to read it with a critical eye. I am sure folks at Unlock would be happy to assist too. This is important - it is all too easy to lose perspective and letting other people see it will help improve your submission and address 'blind spots'. Once you have done that, send it off (registered delivery) and wait and see what comes back.

Remember: the appeal process is there for a reason. Make full use of it. Hope this helps.
RM

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Deb S — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi RM

Bet that's the best Easter present you've ever had.

So pleased for you.

Keep us updated.

Deb

Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #6*
Great news: I found out this morning that the Vice Chancellor of the University has granted my appeal and I have been offered a place on the Course starting in September. It does come with certain conditions about where I can (and cannot) go but I suppose that was to be expected. Many, many thanks to you all for posting and encouraging and also to Deb S at Unlock who helped review my appeal before I sent it.

RM (with a big smile on his face)

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

JohnL — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

RunningMan, congratulations. This is a great win for you and just shows us all that fighting your corner can often produce a good result. Would you mind sharing what sort of conditions they've applied, even if it's just a rough idea.

I'd also be very interested to know more about how you managed to challenge your original inclusion on the barring lists, and what the eventual outcome was?

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #5*
Just got back from the meeting. It went extremely well; they asked positive questions with a focus on seeing the bigger picture of who I am as well as considering any potential risk and how it might be managed if they offered me a place. I felt a 'warmth' from them and they both seemed to come to the table with genuinely open minds about my past. How refreshing! They did not give an indicator of their recommendations but I picked up that it would be in my favour. However, this is, of course. no guarantee of an offer. That is up to the Vice Chancellor alone. They aim to have a final decision for me by the end of Feb. I will keep you all updated.

Thanks again to you all for reading/posting.

RM

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Square — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

I am pretty sure that they would not be going to all this effort unless they were taking your application very seriously.

I would be preparing answers to some of the harder questions you could expect:
- Why did you commit the offence?
- What exactly was your offence?
- What was your sentence?
- What work have you done to ensure that you don't reoffend?
- Why should we trust you?

You should also think about some of the standard university application questions:
- Why do you want to study x?
- What do you know about the institution?

Good luck - and keep us posted.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Hola — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

I have a similar offence to yours, so without realizing it would think you're being risk assessed every time you see your PPU officer, so think of what questions they and the PO ask you. I'd expect the interview to be similar to your early days under supervision - have you taken responsibility, understand victim empathy ( primary and secondary ), what intervention mechanisms have you got ( even if you don't have any make some up ! ), hobbies, are family supportive, why do you want to do the course ? etc

I suppose also they might ask how you feel being in contact with so many ' young people ' will affect you ? If I were you I'd go ready with an answer to that - won't be alone with them, no longer interested in anything but your own age range, realise your maladaptive thinking etc etc - ie pull out all the learnings / observations from the ISOTP course ( if you did it ? )
Finally I know what DtS means, but I don't think I'd be contrite ... I'd say be accountable but assertive - you have taken responsibility for what happened, been punished ( rightly ) for it, but now you want a fair chance to move on !

GOOD LUCK !

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

DeterminedToSucceed — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

RM - although of course you shouldn't pre-empt the outcome, I read that as really positive. Are they obligated to meet with you as part of their own policies? - if not, I'm doubly reassured. Be confident (but contrite)! Best of luck.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Deb S — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

This is fantastic news RunningMan

I can really appreciate how you must be dreading the meeting but at least you know that the people you're meeting with are not totally oppose to the idea of your studying. Sounds like your PPU Office is a pretty good bloke and he's probably done a lot to put the Uni's minds at rest. Hopefully the meeting will just be a formality with the chance for you to confirm what the PPU Officer has already said and for the Uni to tick a few more boxes.

Wishing you the very best of luck - hang on in there and let us know what happens.

Debs

Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Bachman — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

My advice for anyone wanting to go into higher education with convictions is to go down the open University route. I started my degree in custody and I am now undertaking my penultimate module for a BA in Business and Environment Management. The OU recognises that a small percentage of leaners will be people with convictions, They don't exclude people because of this and the only restrictions would be if your offence somehow made you a risk to the course you are undertaken (violent offender/sexual offender wanting to study social care).

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #4*
A new development: today I received an email from the Dean of the University Faculty. He is conducting the risk assessment along with an external staff member ('Mrs X') who is on the Senior Management Team of a local HE College. I was unaware my personal details and all correspondence had been passed on to this third party outside the University. I was also unaware of a meeting that took place between 'Mrs X', the Dean and my PPU Officer as part of this risk assessment. This is a positive development, however, as the PPU Officer is very supportive of my application and even agreed to act as a referee.

The Dean has now invited me to come in for a meeting. He writes, "Mrs [X] and I believe that we should offer you the opportunity to meet with us in order for us to finalise the assessment." I am not sure if this is good news or not. They do seem to be taking the process seriously, following their own written procedures and looking at the facts and evidence surrounding my case. An opportunity to meet with them and for them to see the 'real' me is a huge step in the right direction. I know it is not a guarantee of being offered a place but at least they are approaching this with an open mind. To be honest, though, I do not relish the thought of this meeting - is it going to be akin to a police interview/interrogation? - and wondered if anyone has been through a similar 'risk assessment meeting' and could offer some insight.

Whatever the outcome, it is a positive move on their part. I will let you all know how it goes.

RM

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #3*
Today I received a brief letter from the Vice Chancellor which states, "I have asked the University's Secretary and Registrar to reconsider your case after carrying out a full risk assessment." This is a step in the right direction and I should have a final decision from them in January 2016.

Happy Christmas to you all.

RM

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Square — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

RunningMan, I am going through a lot of crap so I was so happy to hear of your victory. Now, you may not be offered a place to study but you have shown that you are not a risk and someone with some intelligence has seen that. Whatever happens from her, you must remember how important this response is.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Deb S — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Fingers crossed RunningMan.

Deb

Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #2*
A very quick message to let you all know that I sent in my appeal to the University's Vice-Chancellor today. I will keep you all posted and many thanks to those who have left feedback. Thanks also to Deb S from the Unlock Team for the helpful advice and for proof reading the appeal before I sent it.

It's out of my hands now so watch this space and I'll let you know what happens as soon as I do!

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Square — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

I think you need to appeal again. The response you got sounds pretty damning but is actually quite helpful. The reason for not admitting you is based on:
1. a current student being convicted
2. intimates the safety of the current student body

Part 1 could easily be dismissed by stating that you are not a current student and that a period of time has elapsed. You can also go on to explain that as you have been convicted and undertaken a period of work and are [possibly] no longer being supervised. You could also go onto state that certain agencies (if any) support your application as positive.
Part 2 you may need to think hard about. How can you evidence that the safety of other students are not at risk? Removal from barred lists is one, 18 year old + students is another. If your offence was not a 'contact offence' you could mention that but be very careful about the wording.

You could also offer to meet with the dean to discuss any issues they may have.

Whatever you do I think that before you send off the appeal you need to get someone impartial to read it through. Ask Unlock if they would be willing to do that.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RemorseA — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Its unfair ....the dean of students need to give people the opportunity to move on
To err is human , to forgive is divine

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

Deb S — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi Runningman

It's disappointing that the Dean has taken this view.

Would it be possible for you to contact the Unlock Helpline with further details of the offence, the date and the disposal you were given in Court. Once we have this information, we may be able to provide you with additional information and advice.

Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

RunningMan — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

*UPDATE #1*
Following people's helpful feedback on this Forum and my own feeling that it was the right thing to do, I appealed the decision to bar me from the University's HR Course. After several weeks of delay as well as a couple of phone calls to University Staff from me, I received an email from their Dean of Students today which stated,

"The decision reached [to bar from me from the Course] took into account the University Code of Conduct and Sanctions and Penalties ... for existing students, although at this time you were not enrolled at the University. The penalty for such an offence would have been immediate and permanent exclusion from the University, the time of the offence and conviction were also taken into account. I have investigated your request for a review and ... I have to consider the student community as a whole. The offence that you have committed is so serious that the University policies and regulations stipulate that expulsion is the penalty for our current students."

I do have an option to appeal to a senior Staff member which I plan to do. Any more helpful advice or thoughts most welcome!

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

JohnL — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi Runningman,

Thanks for the update. Can you reply to my message above re lists and I'll come back to you on the appeals separately.

Rejection from Uni to study due to convictions...advice needed

JohnL — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 22:56:53 GMT

Hi Runningman,

Are you able to share your offence? I'm assuming that it was a caution for a possession offence? If that's the case, how did you manage to get removed from the barring list? I'm asking as I'm in the same situation. I'm not actually sure if I'm on the barring list as I didn't receive anything from the DBS, though I did move addresses shortly after accepting my caution.