theForum is run by the charity Unlock. We do not actively moderate, monitor or edit contributions but we may intervene and take any action as we think necessary. Further details can be found in our terms of use. If you have any concerns over the contents on our site, please either register those concerns using the report-a-post button or email us at forum@unlock.org.uk.


ROA and ancillary orders


ROA and ancillary orders

Author
Message
Christopher Stacey
Christopher Stacey
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 715, Visits: 75
In response to the question of whether it's just the Order, or whole conviction, that stays unspent?

For each conviction, there may be a number of 'sentences', 'disposals' or 'orders'. The conviction doesn't become spent until the various elements of it does.

So for example, if you got a fine and a 2 year restraining order. The fine could become spent after a year, but because of the restraining order, the conviction will stay on a basic disclosure (and disclose both the fine and the restraining order) for two years.

I hope that clarifies things.

Need Unlocks advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
Christopher Stacey
Christopher Stacey
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 715, Visits: 75
Hi All,

I just wanted to clarify a few things

1. There is mention in this thread about "why is this information nowhere else" - that's precisely why we put out the update, as we discovered this problem with plenty of evidence through our helpline of people with basic disclosures as proof. Hence the update.

2. That's also why we've encouraged people to get their own basic disclosure. We know that to many people this will be news to them, as it was to us.

3. There have been a few requests for the 'MoJ' view that confirms our update. I understand how people might want to get this "from the horses mouth" so to speak. We're not the MoJ (nor are we funded by Government, which I just want to reiterate, as some seem to think we arre). What I have done is copied below the paragraph that we received from the Ministry of Justice - this is what formed the basis of our update.

"In our view, and that of Disclosure Scotland, a SOPO falls within the definition in the ROA of an order that imposes a prohibition. The rehabilitation period of an order, made on conviction, which imposes "any disqualification, disability, prohibition or other penalty" has not changed following the amendments made by the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. The relevant provisions were previously set out in section 5(8) of the ROA. They are now set out in the last entry in the table in new section 5(2) and in the definition of relevant order in new section 5(8). In both cases the rehabilitation period ends on the date when the prohibition, etc, ceases to have effect. Therefore if an order is imposed for an indefinite period then it seems to us that it will be subject to disclosure indefinitely."

4. I can assure all members of this forum that we do not provide updates like this without ensuring that our information is accurate. Sadly, we know that the information that people get given elsewhere can make things confusing. We've been careful to make sure that we saw evidence of this happening in practice, where people were showing us basic disclosures with orders on there, and then confirming the position with MoJ.

5. As was mentioned in the update, we don't agree that Orders should be working in this way, and we're actively looking at ways that this can be challenged, hence why we're asking for evidence from individuals.

6. Finally, although this forum is monitored regularly from a moderator perspective, questions that are put to Unlock through the forum won't necessarily be answered straight away. However, people can get our advice directly by contacting our Helpline (see link at the bottom of this page)

I hope this helps.

Chris

Post Edited (Christopher Stacey) : 13/06/2014 15:09:34 (GMT+2)



Need Unlocks advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
Christopher Stacey
Christopher Stacey
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 715, Visits: 75
If you're very clear on your record, then you may decide not to bother.

However, as others have posted elsewhere on here recently, they'd rather "see it in black and white" which is understandable.

Need Unlocks advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
Christopher Stacey
Christopher Stacey
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)Supreme Being (34K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 715, Visits: 75
I understand Stig. It's absolutely heart-breaking to hear from people who call our helpline and they're in tears because of this news.

Ultimately, the ROA changes help a lot of people. Sadly, the devil is in the detail, and we're doing what we can to raise these issues. Hopefully the update points out of couple of areas which is probably news people don't want to hear.

Sadly, as much as we disagree with the ways things are working, we believe it's important to make sure that we do our best to help people get access to accurate, reliable, information. Sometimes, that means providing information we don't like. Thankfully, the fact that we're independent of Government means that we can raise these issues. Unfortunately, that's also why we have very little resources, because ultimately we rely on donations to help us to carry on the work that we're doing.

Need Unlocks advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
Christopher Stacey said...
Hi All,


2. That's also why we've encouraged people to get their own basic disclosure. We know that to many people this will be news to them, as it was to us.



I don't mind getting a basic disclosure but what is the point in spending £25 just to confirm that the orders there and your sentence is unspent as the MoJ have pointed out? There is only one item on my order and I think most people would think it pretty whimsical, so it may be more expeditious to go to court and try and get the order quashed so your conviction can be spent.
forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
This seems such a basic infringement of rights and against what the spirit of what Parliament was trying to achieve (based on the press releases of the time), but how can it be challenged and how does anyone go about it, is it a case for judicial review (not that I really know what that means) or someone to raise it theough the European Court of Human Rights?
forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
charlie37 said...
...

The only option left is either to get the Order discharged, or shortened in duration. That means getting legal advice which will cost. I'll probably then look into representing myself. Any useful information that I find out along the way I'll either post here or send to the helpline.
.


Just to point out when I got my order amended from indefinite I first approached the court thinking it would have to be a diy thing but the court told me why are you doing it yourself -get your solicitor to deal with it - it turned out my original legal aid certificate granted for crown court extended to any subsequent challenges to the order. Even my solicitor hadn't realised that so worth checking to take some of the load off yourself. Also like you say a decent judge will realise the absurdity of how these orders militate against rehabilitation so it's a route i'm considering as i've only got one item on mine which now seems irrelevant. It's also a pity solicitors weren't/aren't alert to the ROA impact of having an order at time of issue so they could argue against them
forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
Has anyone here who was applying for basic disclosure got it back yet and does it mention the order?
forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
just thought i'd bump this - Has anyone here who was applying for basic disclosure got it back yet and does it mention the order?

Post Edited (forever changes) : 15/08/2014 23:43:25 (GMT+2)


forever changes
forever changes
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)Supreme Being (17K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 554, Visits: 68
any updates on this after such a long time, i'm desperate to work but dont want to say I have no unspent convictions if an order would reveal that I had one from many years ago that otherwise would be spent based on the length of sentence.

Post Edited (forever changes) : 24/06/2015 10:22:42 (GMT+2)


GO


Similar Topics


As a small but national charity, we rely on charitable grants and individual donations to continue running theForum. We do not deliver government services. By being independent, we are able to respond to the needs of the people with convictions. Help us keep theForum going.

Donate Online

Login
Existing Account
Email Address:


Password:


Select a Forum....
























































































































































































theForum


Search