theForum is run by the charity Unlock. We do not actively moderate, monitor or edit contributions but we may intervene and take any action as we think necessary. Further details can be found in our terms of use. If you have any concerns over the contents on our site, please either register those concerns using the report-a-post button or email us at forum@unlock.org.uk.


Passport Countersignatory: "A person of good standing in their community"


Passport Countersignatory: "A person of good standing in their...

Author
Message
rme123
rme123
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 38, Visits: 1.4K
Hi all, wondering if anyone is able to shed any light on this one. Someone I know has just asked me to act as a countersignatory for their UK passport. I'm in a "profession" in one of the listed occupations, so no concerns there. However, in the small print it says that the countersignatory must be a "person of good standing in their community". To be clear, it does say someone in one of the listed professions OR "a person of good standing...", so technically I pass their test! Nevertheless, the alarm bells have started ringing. I have a (spent) criminal record for a quite serious offence, and I'm wondering if this is going to get flagged up somehow. The person I endorsed doesn't know about this, and it could cause significant problems at work if they found out.

Has anyone with a record (spent or unspent) had any experience of endorsing a passport application? Or perhaps someone from Unlock could share their advice?

AB2014
AB2014
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)Supreme Being (230K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.4K
rme123 - 15 Oct 18 6:58 PM
Hi all, wondering if anyone is able to shed any light on this one. Someone I know has just asked me to act as a countersignatory for their UK passport. I'm in a "profession" in one of the listed occupations, so no concerns there. However, in the small print it says that the countersignatory must be a "person of good standing in their community". To be clear, it does say someone in one of the listed professions OR "a person of good standing...", so technically I pass their test! Nevertheless, the alarm bells have started ringing. I have a (spent) criminal record for a quite serious offence, and I'm wondering if this is going to get flagged up somehow. The person I endorsed doesn't know about this, and it could cause significant problems at work if they found out.

Has anyone with a record (spent or unspent) had any experience of endorsing a passport application? Or perhaps someone from Unlock could share their advice?

I've just had a look through the government info, and they're quite clear it's an either/or thing. Given that there is nothing stopping someone from being in a recognised profession and having a conviction for a serious offence, I can't see there's a problem. Although I don't know for sure, I remember a friend who was a civil servant (permanent) countersigning my application saying they just contact you to check your identity, if they contact you at all. He'd signed quite a few and never been contacted, but they might be a bit stricter these days.

=========================================================================================================

If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Square
Square
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)Supreme Being (33K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 85, Visits: 339
I don't believe the authorities will look at the counter-signatory too much unless there is genuine concerns about the application of the picture itself. If you are happy to do it - do it. You are clearly operating within the guidelines issued by the government.
rme123
rme123
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 38, Visits: 1.4K
Hi both, thanks for your replies. I think you're probably both right. But you know how it is with these things - you tend to prepare yourself for the worst!

Another reason I was slightly hesitant to do this is because I have an Irish passport (though I'm a UK citizen). It's not an issue in terms of my eligibility to endorse the application (you need to provide a UK or Irish passport number). Rather, I was hesitant because the UK government doesn't have details of my current passport as it's relatively new - having been convicted of an offence that landed me on the SOR, they did have details of my previous one. Since my time on the SOR ended a couple of years back, I haven't had to give them my new passport number, nor do they have any legal right to ask for the details. When I got my new passport, it felt like a fresh start. But the paranoid part of me can't shake the feeling that this is a pretty easy way for them to get this info, and that somewhere, somehow, someone will add me to a "watchlist" (or at the very least, a "person of potential interest" list). I have zero confidence in the UK governments' data protection, and would much rather avoid this kind of contact with them altogether! I know this probably sounds overly paranoid but the truth is that we do live in surveillance state in which the collection of an individual's data is a routine activity. 
BenS
BenS
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 301, Visits: 2.9K
I totally understand your hesitation, given the reasons you explain. I don't think it's paranoid. Unlike most European countries, the UK doesn't care about data protection. When I lived abroad, every official form you filled in had a long clause saying your data won't be shared with anyone, including government. In the UK it's the opposite.

If you're a UK citizen, don't you also have UK passport you can use for countersigning? If you don't, then it would be useful to get one anyway, so that any "monitoring" is based on your UK passport and you can just use your Irish passport for travelling, as it will be both easier post-Brexit and less likely to be monitored by the UK.
rme123
rme123
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)Supreme Being (12K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 38, Visits: 1.4K
BenS - 17 Oct 18 8:29 AM
I totally understand your hesitation, given the reasons you explain. I don't think it's paranoid. Unlike most European countries, the UK doesn't care about data protection. When I lived abroad, every official form you filled in had a long clause saying your data won't be shared with anyone, including government. In the UK it's the opposite.

If you're a UK citizen, don't you also have UK passport you can use for countersigning? If you don't, then it would be useful to get one anyway, so that any "monitoring" is based on your UK passport and you can just use your Irish passport for travelling, as it will be both easier post-Brexit and less likely to be monitored by the UK.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't hold a UK passport so that isn't an option on this occasion. However, I have a feeling that even if I were to have a UK passport, they would almost certainly ask for the details of any other passports that you hold. So, they'll have the details either way. 

To go back to my original quandary - given that I agreed to do this and have already filled out most of the paperwork, I fear that it's a bit too late to backtrack now without raising any suspicions. I think I'm just going to have to follow through and hope that there are no consequences!

Thanks again everyone for your input.  
BenS
BenS
Supreme Being
Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)Supreme Being (99K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 301, Visits: 2.9K
rme123 - 17 Oct 18 12:46 PM
BenS - 17 Oct 18 8:29 AM
I totally understand your hesitation, given the reasons you explain. I don't think it's paranoid. Unlike most European countries, the UK doesn't care about data protection. When I lived abroad, every official form you filled in had a long clause saying your data won't be shared with anyone, including government. In the UK it's the opposite.

If you're a UK citizen, don't you also have UK passport you can use for countersigning? If you don't, then it would be useful to get one anyway, so that any "monitoring" is based on your UK passport and you can just use your Irish passport for travelling, as it will be both easier post-Brexit and less likely to be monitored by the UK.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't hold a UK passport so that isn't an option on this occasion. However, I have a feeling that even if I were to have a UK passport, they would almost certainly ask for the details of any other passports that you hold. So, they'll have the details either way. 

To go back to my original quandary - given that I agreed to do this and have already filled out most of the paperwork, I fear that it's a bit too late to backtrack now without raising any suspicions. I think I'm just going to have to follow through and hope that there are no consequences!

Thanks again everyone for your input.  

No problem - I think you'll be fine as it's an OR question and you satisfy one of the criteria. Who knows how often (if ever) countersignatories ever get followed up for confirmation.
GO


Similar Topics


As a small but national charity, we rely on charitable grants and individual donations to continue running theForum. We do not deliver government services. By being independent, we are able to respond to the needs of the people with convictions. Help us keep theForum going.

Donate Online

Login
Existing Account
Email Address:


Password:


Select a Forum....
























































































































































































theForum


Search