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Is it spent or not?????!!!!!!!!


Is it spent or not?????!!!!!!!!

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Supreme Being
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BT said...
Just makes no sense whatever to make it so hard for people to try to obtain work & insurance & if it's not a little over-dramatic for a Saturday night, to actually give a damn about the rest of society.

I suppose my only option would be to try & challenge the length of the SOPO on the basis that if anyone was at all bothered about me & the need for me to be on any sort of order, they would have actually checked by now. But the pessimist in me just thinks all that would do is end with me out of pocket & the PPU deciding to check on it frequently having decided I must be trying to commit an offence rather than move on with my life.

And breathe......


I'm afraid youre right to be pessimistic. After 5 years I applied to get my 10 yr sopo discharged so my sentence was spent. I didn't think there'd be a problem as I only have one item on the SOPO, which if I contravened would be breaking the law anyway so its existence had no practical effect on my behaviour. I was told by PPU I was low risk (and SOPOs are for serious risk) and only visited once a year and complied with SOR requirements etc However before it got to court the Police solicitor opposed it and said they would get a QC and if they won they would apply for significant costs and if they lost they would appeal to the highest level etc. Asked PPU about it and he claimed it was not his decision but I didnt believe him, its just part of their culture to punish you as much as possible, gives them some satisfaction of being able to exert power and hinder rehabilitation.
Debbie Sadler
Debbie Sadler
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Hi BT

It could well be worth asking that the Order be varied or totally removed.

As you haven't been bothered by your PPU Officer they clearly don't deem you as a risk so it may be worth getting in touch with him/her to find out whether they would support your action (will certainly help the process).

Have a look at the information we've got on the Hub about the process (https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/sexual-offences-prevention-order-sopo/) but if you need any further help or advice, please feel free to give the Helpline a call.


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Debbie Sadler
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Hi Loxley22

Please feel free to contact the Unlock Helpline. Alternatively, have a look on the MOJ website as there will be information relating the the changes to the ROA which you may need to show to the Police Officer concerned.

Good luck


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Debbie Sadler
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Hi BT

Just to clarify - if you were given a Relevant Order for example a SOPO as part of your disposal then the whole conviction would not be spent until the relevant order becomes spent. You are right therefore in saying that a six month suspended sentence would be spent after 2.5 years but if you received a SOPO for a period of say 5 years then the entire conviction would be spent at the end of the five year period.

This should not be confused with time spent on the SOR which has no impact on the time that a conviction becomes spent. Thus your conviction can become spent but you can still remain on the register.

Hope this makes sense.


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BT
BT
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Hi Debs, yes your reply makes perfect sense, thank you. I think I'm just shocked though that a SOPO which does nothing but prevent me from deleting internet history, can be used to extend the length of time that my sentence (which was a short suspended one taking into account the manor nature of the offence) remains unspent. PPU have never even bothered to check it which is why it feels even more ridiculous. 7 years is standard SOR for a 6mth suspended sentence & the SOPO was just set to run for the same length of time. Just makes no sense whatever to make it so hard for people to try to obtain work & insurance & if it's not a little over-dramatic for a Saturday night, to actually give a damn about the rest of society.

I suppose my only option would be to try & challenge the length of the SOPO on the basis that if anyone was at all bothered about me & the need for me to be on any sort of order, they would have actually checked by now. But the pessimist in me just thinks all that would do is end with me out of pocket & the PPU deciding to check on it frequently having decided I must be trying to commit an offence rather than move on with my life.

And breathe......
BT
BT
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Am I completely misunderstanding this thread? I received a 6 month suspended sentence for what is categorised a sexual offence. When the changes came about I checked here & did the disclosure calculator which suggested my sentence was spent & I no longer needed to disclose for things like insurance etc. I've just done the calculator again, & there is nothing there that states that a sentence is not spent if there were any orders added. Because of the sentence, the standard period on the SOR is 7 years & I think that's pretty much the only reason the SOPO was set up for that length, simply to match.

You're not seriously telling me that because I have an order saying I can't delete internet history for 7 years, that this means that instead of the sentence being spent in 2.5 years, it's not spent for 7 years are you? That would be completely stupid surely? But if that is the case, then presumably it always applies in every case where some sort of order is put in place? So for example if someone is convicted or stalking/harrassment & isn't allowed to contact someone or be in a certain area for x number of years, their sentence is no longer spent until that order runs out?

Thanks
BenS
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BT - I don't know about dispositions like for harrassment/stalking, but I do know that with SOPOs and similar, they are only spent when the SOPO expires. But don't know if this means only the SOPO is unspent or the actual conviction is still unspent.

If you do a basic disclosure, would such a (spent) conviction still show or would only the SOPO show - anyone know this? For example, I got a 9-month sentence, which fits the "6-30 months = spent after 4 years" category and is now spent. But I also got a 10-year extra disposition, which is not finished yet.

Similar to BT's question - does this mean one's actual prison conviction is still unspent, or just the order? On a basic disclosure would it list a SOPO only, or the conviction as well (even if the latter is legally spent)?

This is important because some forms (insurance, political office, foreign countries' landing cards, etc.) only ask about if you've been to prison - NOT about any other things like orders or convictions which didn't result in a prison sentence. So it's important to know so that you can tell the truth. Legally my prison sentence is spent but I don't know if the order will make it unspent or if it's only the order itself which remains unspent.

It seems absolutely perverse and unjust that you can get a 30-month custodial sentence, with no other dispositions, and it will be spent in 4 years, no exceptions. Yet you can get a 3-month suspended sentence with a disposition and it might not be spent for 10 years. confused
BenS
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It depends if you also have a SOPO or similar orders.

If you have a SOPO, you only have a spent record once the SOPO expires.

Your 1-year sentence from 2004 should indeed be spent by now. However, if you had a long or indefinite SOPO attached to your conviction, that will make you still have an unspent conviction. It is only spent once the SOPO (or similar) has expired. You can apply through your local police force to have a SOPO removed or amended after a certain number of years (not sure exactly how many). It's important to keep on good terms with the police as they can help you remove it.

Are you still under a SOPO? In this case, this is why it is not spent.

If you are not subject to a SOPO or similar, I have no idea why the police are telling you this. I would advise contacting Unlock directly or getting a free half-hour with a criminal-law solicitor.

Good luck.
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Thank you for clarifying this, Deb.

It does suck that there are so many exceptions to what at first appears to be a simple and unambiguous table showing when a conviction is spent!
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I'm currently trying to get my order varied - it was made in 2008 and so far after talking to the police they are having to replace all of the conditions as the police themselves described them as draconian. The main thing I want varied is that it was made for an indefinite period - and I believe that it is not proportionate.
One thing that one of the police officers said when we had a meeting about it was that at the time my order was made, the police had an attitude of "let's see what we can get", which I think is an abuse of these orders and the criminal justice system.
I am going to call the court today as it's been 6 months so far in trying to get the case heard and it's been moved to the third crown court to be heard.
GO


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