By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
Hello
Last week my unspent criminal convictions came to my employer's attention (and to all the other staff) due to the 'Google Effect'. Thankfully, I declared them on my application form when I applied for the job 18 months ago - the employer checked! - and because I have done the right thing and been an exemplary employee, they want to support me. I had an emergency meeting with my Department Manager last Friday to discuss this and I will see him again today (Tuesday 3rd) to discuss options. The problem is I am not sure what options I have! eg Can they force me to remain in my current position despite possible risk to my safety? Can I request a re-assignment to another part of the business? Am I obliged to accept any offer they make? Under Employment Law what rights, if any, do I have to protect me from being forced out?
I am sure some of you in the Forum have been through this so would appreciate any thoughts/feedback
Thanks
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By caterpillar - 6 Jan 12 6:36 PM
You have the same rights as any other employee. Are you out of your probationary period?
You say that the employer is supportive, so where is the issue?
If you are dismissed or forced out you will be able to take it to tribunal based on above.
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Yup would also advise if you can if your company is good enough and has a trade union representative(check with management or ho) that can assist you in your interviews they should attend it and support you during the actual interview, do your best to get it done first time round afterwards it may not matter!
Its important to note that employers themselves can abuse and manipulate circumstances or as I put it make up the law, a trade union rep is like a mini solicitor and would pretty much shut down any such tactics that is if your management is attempting to do so.
How come it has taken 18 months for management to have an interview ? Did an staff or manager colleague Google you and why now and not 18 months ago ?
Seems strange a 2nd interview is required if it was just a simple "chat" a quick talk would have been sufficient- I certainly would ask what is the interview about and ask the right question as in is there a dispute or complaint since then I would ask for a union rep or solicitor to be present you do have a right to rearrange the interview at least this way the manager maybe frank and just inform you its a quick chat nothing serious etc....
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By HelpNeeded - 20 Jan 15 4:53 PM
Hi RunningMan,
From an Employment Law point of view as you have disclosed there shouldn't be an issue, legally. The points you outline below would seem to evidence to me that your business wants to support you now, practically, given the fact that information has got out into the workforce. It's hard without further background to provide clear advice. You mention that you feel there is a risk to your safety, i really can't see how an employer could force you to stay in a role if there was a genuine risk of this (i would expect your employer to complete a formal risk assessment on this point before coming back to you about it) which then opens up the question, what other suitable roles are available within the organisation that they could offer you?
If you are stating that you feel you CANNOT continue in your current role due to your fears for your safety then you may force your employers hand if they cannot source a suitable alternative, again it's difficult without knowing the specifics.
As long as the conversations are 'chats' (as positioned with you) i wouldn't worry to much about Trade Union Representation as long as you're able to remain professional (sometimes the emotions can take over), if the meeting was formal i.e. part of a grievance or disciplinary process you would know as you should have received a formal letter outlining your right to be accompanied and they would be recorded/notes taken.
It would be good, if you feel comfortable, if you could share the outcome of your meeting?
I wish you all the best and hope a solution that works for all can be found.
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
Thanks Caterpillar and Damag3d for the replies. According to the person I spoke to on the Unlock 'Helpline' yesterday I do NOT have the same rights as other employees as I have not been working there for 2 years. He also seemed to suggest there was very little I could do as I have limited legal recourse and they could get rid of me very easily even though I have followed the correct disclosure process when I applied for the position.
So a brief update. I met with my manager today. He was very helpful and reassured me I have done nothing wrong and the Business would support me. I could return to my job but they could not guarantee how others would react. They would remind all Staff about professional respect/conduct and would discipline accordingly if staff fell below those standards. Yet, they can't monitor things 24/7! Not sure where that leaves me really. Even if I did go back what sort of impact would such a potentially hostile work environment have on me and my future prospects?
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Pretty much as expected I don't think at this point they want you period, even under a new name and new company.... bad news travels even faster and the risk is high of it happening again.
I think by law bad references can't be given anyhow, then again how can you get a bad one when you done nothing wrong?
I would use a few guys names or previous companies as ref anyhow, if never hurts.
Otherwise perhaps get a 2nd opinion from a solicitor you could stand to make big money possible or a rather big redundancy package if they offer you it followed by changing your name and working hard to move those bad internet articles down and going for another job sounds the ticket.
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By The Pineapple Thief - 3 Feb 15 2:54 PM
Damag3d said...
I think by law bad references can't be given
On the previous page I said...
With regards to bad references, the official guidance on references states that a reference must be fair and accurate. 'No such thing as a bad reference' is a bit of an urban myth.
All good advice so far - Whilst you haven't resigned, and I don't think they're comfortable with the situation, it's a bit of a stalemate situation. I think they'd be happier for you to resign but compensate you for it rather than going down the tribunal route and possible backlash. However, the backlash could work both ways - although if you're bringing tribunal action against your employers, as the one bringing the action, you may have the option of keeping it confidential. I'm no expert though so yes, I would seek professional advice.
I haven't stolen any Pineapples, but they are a great prog rock band!
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE 6*
Bad news. Today I went in for a meeting and they sacked me for 'Potential Serious Misconduct - namely the potential damage to the reputation of the business'.
Bit gutted but I think deep down I knew it was coming. I'm going to make an appointment to speak to a solicitor and consider my next move.
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
It was to be expected so nothing new, they really had no other course of action it was just a delaying process to attempt you to leave willingly and freely so no legal course of action could occur.
If anything you could go to a solicitor and sue them, maybe a good or bad thing you wont know till you discuss it with one.
Did you by chance keep a copy of your application form where you ticked yes to criminal conviction or any evidence of this even if it was just something your management said?
Or did you keep your interviews with them recorded on phone?, ask them for all the papers, disciplinary papers and interview papers/cassettes etc
you will need all the evidence. Any colleagues still working and willing to sign to a witness statement ? etc
Otherwise it does not sound like you did anything wrong, I am quite surprised they did not offer a redundancy package since it was always a question about money at the end of the day perhaps they feel you will not fight or go down the legal path....
I speak from experience since I got gross misconduct too ! I wish I went to a solicitor to get a proper opinion, goodluck and keep us updated!
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By link - 27 Nov 10 7:09 PM
Hi RM,
It sounds like they have bitten the bullet and had enough...
I am surprised they haven't offered you some way out but maybe they weren't prepared to make the first move, or hope you would and try and use it against you in some way! Like damag3d has already said now is the time to get all your evidence together, find a solicitor put all your cards on the table and go after them for anything and everything!
"potential serious misconduct" sounds a bit laughable to me, I mean you either have or haven't committed serious misconduct during your employment - your not the forefront of the company so it's not like your reputation can directly infer on the businesses and since you worked there for 18 months without any issues that proves itself, you were honest about your conviction (I hope you have a copy because don't be surprised if HR suddenly "lose" it) so you have done nothing wrong...
Get yourself signed on ASAP and start looking for work slightly further afield... Keep us updated!
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By DeterminedToSucceed - 30 May 14 5:40 PM
Just wanted to lend my support RM - this sounds truly Orwellian.
I hope you have the all the necessary resources (financial, emotional) to challenge this. It is absurd and, well, plain wrong.
Good luck.
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By HelpNeeded - 20 Jan 15 4:53 PM
Hi RM,
Just wanted to wish you all the best with everything, awful situation, made even worse by your former employers actions.
I can't imagine how you're feeling but please try and remember, you did nothing wrong from an employment point of view. I appreciate it may not feel that way to you right now though.
Best of luck with everything.
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By Deb S - 16 Sep 11 1:36 PM
Hi RM
Please feel free to give the Unlock Helpline a call. May be able to provide some contacts for you to speak with.
Best wishes
Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE #7*
This week I spoke with a solicitor. She agreed that I had been unfairly dismissed but because I have not worked there for two years, I have no legal recourse. I am, therefore, unable to pursue the company for unfair dismissal. How frustrating! My only option is to appeal the decision through the company's internal appeal process. My solicitor will also look at any other possible avenues or angles that may assist my case but the simple fact is: the law is not on my side. It seems entirely unjust that those who want to work hard, do well and rebuild their lives after making bad choices can be treated like this. However, that is the state of play in this instance.
So what's next? I will appeal and see what happens. Yes, it is disappointing to be in this position, but I plan to persevere and I am sure that something better will come in the fullness of time. I also wanted to say thanks to all of you who bothered to read these updates, especially those of you who were kind enough to post. Many of us who have to live with the everyday consequences of a criminal record can often feel marginalised, isolated and just plain useless! Reading your posts helped me a lot and reminded me that I am not alone. Thanks again and I will keep you updated on the appeal and my future plans.
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
2 years min for legal action, no wonder why they were so strong in their action to ditch you they must have contacted their internal legal team and got that same wording back otherwise I doubt they would have done such a thing.
I would get confirmation of that 2 year clause imo, while it must be true perhaps ask your solicitor for where exactly it is written that exist? Or perhaps contact ACAS:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/dealing-with-grievances-at-work/#acas
more guide lines here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/dealing-with-grievances-at-work/
maybe unlock can confirm that 2 year thing also ?
I don't personally feel your solicitor will be able to do much but hopefully am wrong, otherwise if you really are brave you could perhaps have a meeting with the company with your solicitor present and perhaps attempt a wild bluff and suggest rather then go down the legal route you are willing to discuss redundancy packages or ££.
Failing any of that wait for the solicitor perhaps..... but in mean time perhaps its not a bad idea to work religiously on making those bad internet websites go down to page 3-4, I would open 20 social media accounts on twitter, facebook, myspace and hammer it and then change your name and join then retry for another job, if anything in your next employment you will be more confident and a cleaner and safe concious of it not occurring again.
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*FINAL UPDATE*
Today I received a letter from my former employer telling me my appeal had failed. They acknowledged that had they picked up on the unspent convictions on my original application form, I would never have been employed in the first place. Despite this, they still employed me and I was an excellent worker, but because my convictions have come to light (through the google effect), the dismissal still stands due to "some other substantive reason" and because "of the breakdown of the working relationship between [me] and your colleagues as well as the potential reputational damage to the Company."
Six months of my life wasted! Very disappointed. Made worse by the fact that this dismissal is now on my permanent employment record and will make finding another job even more difficult.
Many others on this Forum have a similar story, I know, and I will follow their advice: keep applying for jobs - maybe in lower paid/lower skilled positions - but get some extra qualifications under your belt and stay positive as they will be spent eventually. Thanks to those who have posted in the last 6 months especially with practical, positive advice. It has helped a lot.
Never, never give up.
RM
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
Thanks 'Help Needed' - your advice came in as I was drafting my response to the others.
Yes, none of this is part of a formal disciplinary process or investigation so I am so glad I did the right thing and 'ticked the box'. The Company is a big one so I can look elsewhere for possible vacancies. They won't simply create a post elsewhere and move me. And at the moment, there are limited opportunities. TBH the thought of having to go back and face people's possibly negative / hostile reactions is not a pleasant one. My Manager has given me until Monday to consider what I want to do...
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By HelpNeeded - 20 Jan 15 4:53 PM
Hi RunningMan,
I can imagine it must be difficult for you.
You did the right thing by disclosing and the company have supported you because of this, that is a good thing.
Sure, the company couldn't create a post and with limited alternatives i guess it's totally down to you and how you feel about returning to your role. Your response is interesting, do you feel other teams/departments in your business wouldn't know about your conviction? Just on the back of your point about looking elsewhere for opportunities within the same organisation. Why do you feel that your current team/department would act badly but not others in the same business?
I'm assuming from your comments that this has come about through someone on your team/department using google to search your background? If so would it be worth consulting with your HR/IT Team around an internet usage policy and potentially restricting access to any web pages which make reference to you? While you'll never be able to control 'office gossip' that may help some of your concerns and make any return slightly more bearable for you at least?
I just think it would be a real shame for anyone with a conviction to be honest at disclosure but then feel they couldn't continue in the role, especially after 18 months.
Just a thought.
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By Deb S - 16 Sep 11 1:36 PM
Hi RunningMan
A very good friend of mine was in a similar situation in her job. Like you, she had disclosed her conviction at interview and her employers were more than happy to keep her on and support her in any way they could. They could not offer her a role elsewhere in the company as there were no vacancies available. However, her Line Manager spoke to everybody in her department pointing out that any form of bullying or harassment would not be tolerated and could lead to disciplinary action.
It wasn't an ideal situation and I know that for a couple of weeks there was a certain amount of gossip and whispering - she kept her head down, acted the same towards colleagues as she had done previously and worked hard. I know there were days when she wondered whether it was all worth it and did consider leaving. However, very quickly this 'big issue' was no longer 'news' and her colleagues had found somebody and something far more interesting to talk about.
Try and stick with it. The fact that your employers are so supportive will be a great help and will offer you a certain amount of protection.
Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
Thanks Deb S, that is an encouraging story and makes a refreshing change from the usual narrative around people with convictions. I am not sure what the nature of your friend's offence was but in my case it is something which brings out the worst in people. The rules of this Forum prohibit me from going into details but I am sure you can read between the lines. Moreover, I am based in a big warehouse environment with men who would have little sympathy for my position and the "news" has spread across the whole site. If it were just a few blokes in our department then I guess this would be more manageable but I am not sure how the managers can control it when 500+ people know.
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Well glad you at least came back to just discuss your interview outcome.
I understand your exact situation since I was in a similar situation it is a great shame the google effect has done this to you, you will always have good or bad eggs in any company, sounds like someone did not like you or decided to do some digging on you its one of those moments where you feel like saying who was it ! but that is not important right now.
I would suggest if your time is "spent" ask google under the right to be forgotten to remove the articles and also google "how to move bad websites about me down" plenty of tips and guides they do sadly take a very long time to do, I know one guy made several accounts on social outlets(facebook, twitter etc) and this pushed the negative news about himself to pages 2-3 where most don't look but this took much effort and posting. You can of course change your name.
The type of offense is what would be the issue I would imagine you could attempt to stick it out and see how colleges treat you if you are finding people have changed or stopped working and talking to you then that is a whole other thing you may then wish to ride it out or ask for a transfer if possible.
You can also if you know anyone well enough in your department let them know x, y, z give your side of the story bet you 9 times out of 10 most don't understand you could just click a url and 5 minutes later in prison it is just that easy.
The reason why I suggest this since we all know how difficult it is to get a job let alone a job with a past and money is still money at the end of the day.
If you work in a warehouse can I ask why you declared the information ? if they asked for a standard check or dbs check then there would have been a risk of your past....
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By paulbarker - 29 Jan 15 8:50 AM
This goes to show how much of a problem Google can be. It's obviously proved how it important it was to disclose - some people will take a risk and not, but if you're details are online, you're taking a big risk.
It's good the company has supported you. I'm with 'HelpNeeded' on this - it would be a real shame if you felt you couldn't continue, but then we're not in your shoes!
I hope you have the confidence to carry on!
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE*
Thanks to all for the advice and feedback. On Tuesday this week, with the agreement of the Management Team, I returned to work. It was difficult but not a disaster. Most staff blanked me but a few were OK. I was prepared to persevere with it as I want to keep working and have done well in this job.
This morning (Wednesday), my Department manager rang me. He told me I was being suspended due to 'the emotional distress it was causing the 500 staff in the warehouse." They have now started an investigation and I will be required to attend a meeting at some point in the future.
I am not sure what to do! Any feedback or advice would be welcome as I seek to find a way forward.
Thanks again
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
What advice to give in these kind of circumstances I am sorry it has come to that but I think given the nature of the offense which I believe is the one we can't really discuss on this forum its not a shocker really, I understand it since I gone through it myself.
I think you gave it a good shot tbh most would have just grabbed their coat and emptied their locker and be gone without even a notice.
I think its a good idea just like many of us have learned ticking no to criminal convictions while not ideal and basically a lie it sadly does prove it is the only way sometimes especially for many type of offenses which people won't understand and want to understand, thought crimes will always be thought crimes sadly.
I would work effortless to bring those Google search results to page 3-4, not to mention changing your name and trying a new job position.
The alternative is fighting the case with the company due to unfair treatment possibly, but if they are willing to suspend you for doing nothing wrong it is going to be a challenge and long process. Really depends what you are willing to do next really.
You could attend the interview and perhaps inquire if you can move to another branch or h/o or other job position?, if that does not work and they insist on the made up 500 distressed 'Staff' and suspension play maybe ask for a very good redundancy package after all you have technically done nothing wrong in my opinion.
If possible you may wish to discuss your situation with 1-2 solicitors, while it may seem like quitting and leaving is an easy choice I would advise get a 2nd opinion before doing something so major use the time your suspended to take a breather and see your options fully a solicitor would be able to assess it well.
As I say depends on so many factors ie your wages if were just talking about a warehouse job under with basic wages under 12-16k or your financial situation it all factors in here.
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By The Pineapple Thief - 3 Feb 15 2:54 PM
Hi RunningMan,
Well done for returning to work under what I imagine to be difficult circumstances. Reading the reactions of your colleagues is something I'm sure all of us have experienced where you find out who your friends really are. It's an oft repeated sentiment on here that you should use the support of your friends and colleagues and as Deb said above, in a short while it will all be yesterdays news.
It does sound like your department manager has over-reacted by moving so quickly to suspend you less than 24 hours after you had returned to work. The reason sounds rather wishy-washy too.
As your employers sound as though they have been supportive during the process, I would assume that they may have realised that they should have made more provisions for your return with your colleagues. I refer again to Deb's post about a line manager reminding staff about harassment and bullying.
If it helps, here are the employment rights from the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
I hope it all turns out well for you and it's good that you have updated us.
I haven't stolen any Pineapples, but they are a great prog rock band!
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By link - 27 Nov 10 7:09 PM
Hi RM,
I completely sympathise with your situation because it could so easily be myself in the same position... I've been working for a number of years in a similar environment without my past catching up with me, like yourself my conviction is now spent and luckily when I got the job I was never asked about anything because they were desperate (I now know why but that's another story).
I can understand the position they are taking because no one is irreplaceable and the needs of the business will come first.
In a small company there is always the possibility they will see beyond your past but with 500+ workers mob mentality won't be far away. I know it's not what you want to hear but it's only a job at the end if the day... Your first priority needs to be to protect yourself, have you informed your RMO?
The company will probably go down the lines of "they can't guarantee your safety in the workplace" and dismiss you on those grounds (been there myself before I was convicted), what ever terminology they use I would recommend you either take someone with you (as a witness) to any meeting's or record them on your phone etc.
If they let you go you have nothing to lose taking them to the cleaners, legally your conviction is spent and they won't want there company name dragged through the mud in any context, they might offer a severance package but don't let them bully you into quiting just to save them a few quid!
I hope things work out but I'm not that optimistic, I could always be wrong though so try to keep your spirits up... How are you coping?
Living in fear is not a nice place to be, I've turned down two promotions and applying for two other senior positions at work just to keep my head down, and recently I started to think someone from a different department had found out about my past... Needless to say I'm giving them a wide berth, touch wood it's been a few weeks and nothings come of it so fingers crossed!
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By Christopher Stacey - 18 Jun 08 1:26 PM
RunningMan,
I feel for you.
It's obviously impossible for us to tell you what to do. Only you can make that decision.
But at this stage, I would strongly urge you not to give up on the job. It must feel like the easy way out, but you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
Could I suggest that you contact our Helpline, and speak to Debbie? She will be able to talk to you about the meeting you've got coming up with your manager, and depending on how you want to deal with this, she should be able to support you through this process.
Chris
Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE #2*
Thanks to all of you for the feedback and comments. After nearly a month of being suspended, I received a phone call this afternoon (9/3) inviting me to attend an 'Investigation Meeting' on Wednesday. I am being investigated for creating an 'untenable working environment' and 'potentially bringing the company into disrepute'. This is the first I have heard of it. It feels like I am being scapegoated for other people's reactions when I have done nothing wrong. The Manager conducting the investigation was given the case last week. Why it has taken three weeks to do that I am not sure. She wants to meet with me first to get some information. Although this is a first step, they seem to have decided to go down this formal route probably with a view to getting me out. I have taken some legal advice. Most lawyers were not interested unless I paid up front (one wanted over £3000!). However, one gave me some free advice over the phone. I do have a good case but a lot would depend on what the business did next. Once I know that, she recommended I give her a call and make an appointment for an hour's consultation (£200+VAT!!!). She would then be able to advice on my specific situation.
The stage is set. I will let you know how it goes....
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By Christopher Stacey - 18 Jun 08 1:26 PM
RunningMan - could I suggest that you speak with Debbie again?
Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
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By link - 27 Nov 10 7:09 PM
Thanks for the update RM,
Given the time frame I figure they have had plenty of time to discuss the situation with there legal advisors... As I said before make sure you take someone with you for support and as a witness, possibly your RMO would be a good option?
In terms of bringing the company into disrepute and creating an untenable working environment bear in mind your offences were before your current employment started?
I think you do have a good case for unfair dismissal but can you afford to put it to the test? Put on a good poker face and see if you can find a no win no fee solicitor?
On a similar note I read an article in a tabloid (you can guess which one) where someone with an undesirable conviction was working for a well known courier firm delivering to schools etc, they have since been relieved of duty and apparently they are carrying out criminal checks on all its staff... Need I say more than roll my eyes!
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Excellent advise from link and hopefully RM you do have a quick chat with unlock staff.
Yeah to myself it feels or sounds like that 3 weeks they took they were weighing up their options (legally) since they know you have not actually done anything wrong and they can be potentially sued which is what I said somewhere in my early post.
They seem to have set a time and date for you quite early on perhaps trying their best to get you in, see where they stand and then dismiss you etc since they said Wednesday (tomorrow) its like you have no time to include a solicitor even !
I am unsure if you will attend with a poker face, but you certainly do have rights and options.
You could cancel the appointment due tomorrow and advise them you require more time, no doubt this may imply you are getting your solicitor/defence ready !
I do agree with link you do need to take someone along if not just for your witness or help and support legally, a no win quibble solicitor sounds an idea. I would also record the interview on your phone and if you have an interview get copies of everything etc.
If you are on your way out why not get as much money as possible ? I wish I had done the same in my case, goodluck RM
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE #3*
The meeting went about as well as could be expected. They have decided to investigate me for "A breakdown in working relationship between Staff Member, Department and Branch due to a prior conviction that could cause reputational damage [to the Business]." Minutes were taken and I received a copy of them at the end.
I put across the basics of my case and my own concerns about their handling of it. I also asked some questions about a possible breach of confidentiality that may have 'tipped off' another staff member to google my name in the first place. I came away feeling I had 'set my stall out' and, if they choose to take disciplinary action, I have a strong and robust case. They are now investigating further and will come back to me in due course.
Thanks to all for the advice - especially Debbie on the helpline - watch this space for future updates.
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By Deb S - 16 Sep 11 1:36 PM
Hi RunningMan
Its good to hear that you have come out of the meeting feeling as though you did the best you could. It sounds like you put your case across well and it was a good move to point out the way they have handled it.
We look forward to getting an update on the Forum and if you need anything further from the Helpline, then please get in touch with me.
Need Unlock's advice? Visit our self-help information site or contact our helpline
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE #4*
This week I was asked to attend a second informal meeting with the manager conducting the investigation into my suspension. It was short but sweet. Before being suspended, I had discussed with my line manager a possible 'positive exit strategy' if I was unable to continue to work in my current role. This might include support to find a job elsewhere in the business, a guarantee of a good reference and other options. We never explored any of these options as I was suspended shortly after. However, at this most recent meeting the investigating manager asked more about this and what I might be willing to consider.
Clearly this is no guarantee of anything! I know they may still continue down the disciplinary route. However, I was able to state plainly I am open to negotiation and for the first time they seemed to be listening. I also made clear that dismissing me (and rendering me virtually unemployable), will leave me no choice but to resort to more formal avenues of relief. I would also speak to a solicitor if they do make any offer to ensure I am being treated fairly under UK employment law provisions.
For the first time I felt a bit more positive and, after six weeks off, I really want to see this resolved so I can move forward, even if it means finding another job.
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By Victor H - 15 Dec 13 7:37 PM
Nice you are doing well although technically you have not done anything wrong I would imagine the company suspending you or firing you without actually any real explanation other then staff are a upset, does not really cut the mustard even the company reputation line is rubbish.
Also I think the law maybe on your side surely they can't give you a bad reference anyhow you done nothing wrong...
Them suggesting they have to continue the investigation sounds like a stall tactic like they want you just to up and leave of your own accord making their life easy as pie.
Make sure you are getting fully paid also but I would personally ask a solicitor at least over the phone for some suggestions, ideas at the very least perhaps those free no win/fee ones.
Explore all the ideas and suggestions, severance package maybe an interesting one you could always suggest if the company reputation may get damaged you certainly don't wish it to go public to the media..... am sure they will turn Charlie Chaplin overnight on that one.
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By The Pineapple Thief - 3 Feb 15 2:54 PM
Hi RunningMan
It sounds as though both you and your employers are doing the right thing. The positive exit strategy is an interesting tactic by both of you and shows that you are both willing to do what's best and not leave each other open to any sort of litigation.
With regards to bad references, the official guidance on references states that a reference must be fair and accurate. 'No such thing as a bad reference' is a bit of an urban myth.
I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction because at the end of the day, you've been utterly compliant.
I haven't stolen any Pineapples, but they are a great prog rock band!
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By RunningMan - 1 Feb 15 7:33 PM
*UPDATE #5*
More developments, but not in the direction I wanted!
This week (Wed 8th) the main Manager of the Warehouse rang me. He said the investigation is now complete. He would not tell me what the outcome of this might be. Instead he asked me to come in for an informal meeting to discuss the next step. At this meeting he said they wanted to try and find a way forward without going down the formal route of discussing the investigation outcome. I had also said I was willing to discuss a 'positive exit strategy'. Initially I was pleased they wanted to talk, however, as the meeting went on, it soon became clear to me they have no intention of helping. The Manager did not think it would be possible for me to return to the Warehouse. The other option was a move to another area of the Business. He said he would look into it. He did not seem very positive this would work. So the final option is my resignation. He told me he could not tell me to resign. Instead, he was asking what it might take for me to consider this eg extend my notice period, guarantee reference etc.
I said I was not making any decision as I wanted to see what other jobs may be available and to go down the transfer route. This seems fair, especially as have done nothing wrong. He promised to ring me the next day to let me know about job availability. He did ring to tell me they will not be transferring me to another area of the business. The reason given to him by HR is that the chance of this happening again (ie people googling my name) is highly likely, so it is not worth it. I pointed out that as an employee, I do have a right to a transfer (as stated in our Staff Handbook) and speculating on something that might or might not happen is no sound legal basis for such an important decision. I'd been there for over 18 months with no problems what so ever. Changing my name might also be a quick and simple solution.
He is waiting for written confirmation of this decision from HR then will ring me this coming week. I think this is all 'lip service' and they are simply moving towards the inevitable. I plan to stand my ground for now: resigning would make everything nice and easy for them. However, this can't go on indefinitely especially now they clearly want to get rid of me, either by putting pressure on me to resign or simply dismissing me and letting me fight it from the 'outside' as an ex-employee.
Any thoughts?
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By HelpNeeded - 20 Jan 15 4:53 PM
Hi RunningMan,
I know it must be difficult for you but you need to remember you have done nothing wrong, you were open when you should have been about your past and in doing so WILL be able to walk away from this with your head held high!
Do not resign, if what you have shared is the truth and you have done nothing wrong at work (consider work policies around social media, mobile phone and internet use (these are the most common)) do not resign. Your employers do have a duty of care to their employees however so based upon your experience so far they could use that as a basis to not transfer.
I am not a lawyer so if you take the following guidance or not is totally up to you but please consider the following - an employment tribunal would look at your 'loss' in this situation, to me and you that means how much money you would lose before you 'reasonably' found further employment (they can count this as income which would mean that they would consider benefits against this) so you may wish to consider that the best outcome for all parties is an 'enhanced redundancy package' (can you check to see if your employers have a policy?)
Asked another way you may wish to consider if the following is enough for you:
Role released on redundancy
Payment in lieu of notice (a lump sum payment for your notice period without working it)
Payment for any bonus due/average of bonuses over the last 3 months (tax free)
up to 1 (it could be more but very unlikely) months pay for each year worked (regardless of the 2 year minimum) (tax free)
A 'clear' company reference (you would see what would be shared as part of the settlement agreement)
You could also ask if they have any 'sister' companies (separate legal entities) that you could transfer to in a different name as you suggested above but i would, personally, not do this.
Please know that going to tribunal would cost you legal fees and please let me stress again that i am not a lawyer, i am however a HR professional so if you do wish to discuss further please ask Unlock to get a message to me and i'll share what i can.
Whatever you decide, all the best.
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By link - 27 Nov 10 7:09 PM
Hi RM,
It sounds like they clearly want 'rid' of you, the fact they are unwilling to talk about the outcome of the investigation is very odd... I suspect they know they are going to be leaving themselves wide open to an unfair dismissal claim!
Personally the last thing I would do was resign, a large cash sum and a guaranteed reference may sound nice but nothing is "guaranteed" in this life, just because they don't say anything bad doesn't mean an anonymous tip doesn't suddenly appear from elsewhere and then your back where you started... I would want several written references as well
You could state that you have no intention of resigning unless you had a new job elsewhere, offer to start looking but remain on full pay until you have a secure job in place... In any respects the bridge is now burnt so get what you can from them while you have the chance.
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