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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xThanks for that. I feel that's more targeted when police are called out, rather than the unique situation of regular visits. Regardless, I note: if it becomes clear that the incident is not a police matter (e.g. not an allegation of a suspected or potential offence) and as such would not have been the subject of an entry in an officer’s pocket notebook, then the officer should cease recording.
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Footage taken in private dwellings should be deleted as soon as practicable if it is not relevant to any criminal investigation or prosecution.
We're not under investigation, so I'd still argue it's not necessary. I don't disagree, and it also states quite importantly (re GDPR) that the operator of the bodycam should give a general warning that he/she has one and is going to record. In my case, he didn't share that important detail until I said I was recording the visit. How convenient....or do I mean deceitful ?? Even then, they could dress it up as a reminder.... I'm sure they're trained in all this, one way or another.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Lineofduty
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 69,
Visits: 345
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+xThanks for that. I feel that's more targeted when police are called out, rather than the unique situation of regular visits. Regardless, I note: if it becomes clear that the incident is not a police matter (e.g. not an allegation of a suspected or potential offence) and as such would not have been the subject of an entry in an officer’s pocket notebook, then the officer should cease recording.
...
Footage taken in private dwellings should be deleted as soon as practicable if it is not relevant to any criminal investigation or prosecution.
We're not under investigation, so I'd still argue it's not necessary. I don't disagree, and it also states quite importantly (re GDPR) that the operator of the bodycam should give a general warning that he/she has one and is going to record. In my case, he didn't share that important detail until I said I was recording the visit. How convenient....or do I mean deceitful ??
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 7K
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+xThanks for that. I feel that's more targeted when police are called out, rather than the unique situation of regular visits. Regardless, I note: if it becomes clear that the incident is not a police matter (e.g. not an allegation of a suspected or potential offence) and as such would not have been the subject of an entry in an officer’s pocket notebook, then the officer should cease recording.
...
Footage taken in private dwellings should be deleted as soon as practicable if it is not relevant to any criminal investigation or prosecution.
We're not under investigation, so I'd still argue it's not necessary. They still take notes, though, and it is clearly a police matter, which is probably all the pretext they need to claim.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 454,
Visits: 5.5K
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Thanks for that. I feel that's more targeted when police are called out, rather than the unique situation of regular visits. Regardless, I note: if it becomes clear that the incident is not a police matter (e.g. not an allegation of a suspected or potential offence) and as such would not have been the subject of an entry in an officer’s pocket notebook, then the officer should cease recording.
...
Footage taken in private dwellings should be deleted as soon as practicable if it is not relevant to any criminal investigation or prosecution.
We're not under investigation, so I'd still argue it's not necessary.
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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Lineofduty
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 69,
Visits: 345
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+xSo while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0085/1197/9567/files/Body_Camera_UK_Guidance_for_Police_Use_of_Body_Worn_Video.pdf?449See Page 14 for "Private Dwellings"
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !! 
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? Hi Understand your point however, I think they will just say that "as a public protection meeting" they do not have to ask; could be classed in same manner as CCTV on your local street. Maybe it's my problem then. I've lost so much trust in my force I don't actually trust them to do this above board. Hi In principle I agree with the lack of trust but then my last PPU officer was 100% different, my current one I am learning about but he seems to accepted his predecessor's judgement. Truth will come to the fore when I raise the question on my 15yr date as They still owe me a written agreement though they verbally agree. Ten years after being convicted of 20 indecent images I am still unable to take my 16 year old daughter out for an ice cream simply down to social services as unsupervised access was allowed from day one. I even said I would wear a bodycam but they are literally a law unto themselves. Hi I think we all can feel your frustration; even the SS! Please do not let use that as a reason to carry on their reserved or rather self protective, practice. In my case I had a SOPO condition that did not allow me to converse with "female" under 16 without ..... you know the rest. Though I had moved areas, a bad OM told the SS that my ex-girlfriend (from when I lived in the other area) had a cousin (who was aware of my offence) with a "Son" under 16 and all hell was let lose!! The cousin was actually in hospital when the SS kept phoning her demand to talk to her about me. The SS went to his school etc and interviewed the boy by himself. I had to chase my OM to understand why he contacted the SS bearing in mind I had no conditions concerning "boys" etc and why the treatment of this "distant and extended family (ish) member" was allowed. The only reply I got was "they came back with positive comments about you which I expected so what is the issue!" Thankfully he moved on and his replacement was of a completely management style.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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HarryT
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4,
Visits: 3
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? Hi Understand your point however, I think they will just say that "as a public protection meeting" they do not have to ask; could be classed in same manner as CCTV on your local street. Maybe it's my problem then. I've lost so much trust in my force I don't actually trust them to do this above board. Hi In principle I agree with the lack of trust but then my last PPU officer was 100% different, my current one I am learning about but he seems to accepted his predecessor's judgement. Truth will come to the fore when I raise the question on my 15yr date as They still owe me a written agreement though they verbally agree. Ten years after being convicted of 20 indecent images I am still unable to take my 16 year old daughter out for an ice cream simply down to social services as unsupervised access was allowed from day one. I even said I would wear a bodycam but they are literally a law unto themselves.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+x+x+x+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? Hi Understand your point however, I think they will just say that "as a public protection meeting" they do not have to ask; could be classed in same manner as CCTV on your local street. Maybe it's my problem then. I've lost so much trust in my force I don't actually trust them to do this above board. Hi In principle I agree with the lack of trust but then my last PPU officer was 100% different, my current one I am learning about but he seems to accepted his predecessor's judgement. Truth will come to the fore when I raise the question on my 15yr date as They still owe me a written agreement though they verbally agree.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 454,
Visits: 5.5K
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+x+x+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? Hi Understand your point however, I think they will just say that "as a public protection meeting" they do not have to ask; could be classed in same manner as CCTV on your local street. Maybe it's my problem then. I've lost so much trust in my force I don't actually trust them to do this above board.
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+x+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok? Hi Understand your point however, I think they will just say that "as a public protection meeting" they do not have to ask; could be classed in same manner as CCTV on your local street.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 454,
Visits: 5.5K
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+x+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording. So while they were on your property and recording you, did they ask for your consent? Did you say it was ok?
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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Lineofduty
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 69,
Visits: 345
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+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Dan, i've just partly referenced this on one of your other threads. However, I've got their system Notes on all my visits going back 5 years and throught a SAR every time. It's not your officer's job to get them, only to redact what they feel needs redacting, e.g. references to third party names. They have 30 days and if they can't provide in 30 days they have to advise you of the delay. The Notes/Minutes are kept digitally stored outside of the PPU offices so they have to apply there. As I've said to you before I recall just be prepared for what they've said about you or how they've twisted anything they can about you not thinking that most SO's would ever apply for copies... Just an aside for other readers, my last visit was recorded with their bodycam. I asked for the recording (needs to be requested within 30 days of vist otherwise deleted). They said, and I'm not joking here, that it was too long to provide me with as someone would have to spend time editing it for data protection/redaction/editing purposes...so...would I like the first 30 mins or the last 30 mins !!
Now if there had been an incident that THEY wanted to pursue, you can bet they would have trawled through the whole lot no matter how long the recording.
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 454,
Visits: 5.5K
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+xI have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included. I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request. Yes, it's probably worth getting an updated one. Don't worry too much about it though, I don't think the judge read half of what was available to him when I went back to court. It's a big thing to us but the judge will probably have far more pressing matters. The day itself seems to be more important and what you want to say, so make you sure you have that clear in your mind with the help of your legal rep.
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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xDanx
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 355,
Visits: 10K
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I have made a Subject Access Request in the past (2019) but I was not given anything regarding the notes made during the visits. I did ask specifically for all reports made including the home visits but they were never included.
I will speak to my Solicitor about it tomorrow and may put in another request.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+x+x+x+xThere was a story on the news a few weeks back that said they couldn’t report what had happened to the children because it was so bad. Another story where there were very weird goings on somewhere in South Wales. Jimmy *avile would probably fit that description too. We have no idea what's really going on out there. So he’s probably not wrong in saying that. Nobody can be seen to be showing any sympathy towards offenders, it’s all wrong, no ifs or buts. I certainly don’t envy the police’s job in ‘management’, especially the amount of backlash they would get if they got something wrong.
On the same hand... it recommends: I recommend that the government commissions research into non-judicial diversion options for some online offenders. I said this years ago and I was accused of playing down the offence and here they are putting it into action.
But also:
Action: I recommend that MOSOVO staff routinely video/audio record home visits and retain recordings alongside risk assessments and risk management plans.Timeframe: Within 6 months.Within 6 months.Within 6 months. I'm sorry, you can't just decide that. What for? Is there not an issue of consent here? We have a human right to a private life.
If this happens, I can foresee a lot of silence for the **voluntary** questions we’re asked during visits. When it comes to recording home visits, they already make notes, but then SO complain that they didn't record all the positive things people have done, in their risk assessment. So it would lead to a full record being kept of what was said, in case of any disputes. You could then ask for a copy of the recording in your SAR request too. I can see upsides to it, as well as downsides. The PPU would no longer be able to deny that they had said something to you. When I was building my case for my SOPO discharge, I spoke to the head of the PO to retrieve documents etc. I found conflicting info between my memories and what they wrote at meetings (I had kept a diary writing after each meeting). I mentioned about meetings being recorded and they listed so many reasons it would not happen ranging from storage of media, to its security and who would validate interpretation of the meaning behind words said. Its hard enough to get the tapes of police interviews. I was in my local corner shop the other day and I noticed that the staff were all wearing bodycams, just like the police do. The technology to do it is cheaper than ever. Hi I understand the point you are making but as you know; there is more required than a cheap bodycam
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+xI have not read this headline in full as yet, but will in due course. From what has been said so far I would be in agreement and change with the system needs to happen. In regards to the visit reports, I do have one question to ask as I am not sure how to proceed. Around 3 months ago around the same time I put in my application to discharge my SHPO, I submitted a request for information with my local force specifically asking for the visit reports. I have a response confirming my request was received but I have had no further response since. I believe someone told me it usually takes 1 month? I have asked my solicitor for advice on this, but she too has failed to respond advising me. I am not certain who I would need to contact in order to find out why it is taking so long. If any one could advise that would be great. Hi In ways my experience was similar but I was trying to get answers from the Force Solicitor and other agencies working with him. I had developed a good relationship with my OM and just kept sending a polite email to him asking if any response was coming. Obviously I would do this once a month ish. I did get responses and managed to actually get his support due to the points surrounding my question was backed up with the relevant regs. In the end I proved their record was incorrect as I had emails from the visiting OM saying something positive on two dates but his entry to their record on a date inbetween those dates was negative! All I got was an apology; but gained moral support from the new OM for my case and the way I handled it. But know that it did take a few months; even probation took a couple of months and most was redacted so little to be gained. Hope that helps
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 454,
Visits: 5.5K
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+xI have not read this headline in full as yet, but will in due course. From what has been said so far I would be in agreement and change with the system needs to happen. In regards to the visit reports, I do have one question to ask as I am not sure how to proceed. Around 3 months ago around the same time I put in my application to discharge my SHPO, I submitted a request for information with my local force specifically asking for the visit reports. I have a response confirming my request was received but I have had no further response since. I believe someone told me it usually takes 1 month? I have asked my solicitor for advice on this, but she too has failed to respond advising me. I am not certain who I would need to contact in order to find out why it is taking so long. If any one could advise that would be great. Subject Access Request should suffice, Dan? When I got my SAR I didn't get the exact notes of the visits, they're handwritten, but they do update the system and that's what's on the SAR. As for time, piece of string. They originally told me they couldn't because they were too busy and then some time later it just arrived in the post.
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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punter99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 721,
Visits: 5.3K
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+x+x+xThere was a story on the news a few weeks back that said they couldn’t report what had happened to the children because it was so bad. Another story where there were very weird goings on somewhere in South Wales. Jimmy *avile would probably fit that description too. We have no idea what's really going on out there. So he’s probably not wrong in saying that. Nobody can be seen to be showing any sympathy towards offenders, it’s all wrong, no ifs or buts. I certainly don’t envy the police’s job in ‘management’, especially the amount of backlash they would get if they got something wrong.
On the same hand... it recommends: I recommend that the government commissions research into non-judicial diversion options for some online offenders. I said this years ago and I was accused of playing down the offence and here they are putting it into action.
But also:
Action: I recommend that MOSOVO staff routinely video/audio record home visits and retain recordings alongside risk assessments and risk management plans.Timeframe: Within 6 months.Within 6 months.Within 6 months. I'm sorry, you can't just decide that. What for? Is there not an issue of consent here? We have a human right to a private life.
If this happens, I can foresee a lot of silence for the **voluntary** questions we’re asked during visits. When it comes to recording home visits, they already make notes, but then SO complain that they didn't record all the positive things people have done, in their risk assessment. So it would lead to a full record being kept of what was said, in case of any disputes. You could then ask for a copy of the recording in your SAR request too. I can see upsides to it, as well as downsides. The PPU would no longer be able to deny that they had said something to you. When I was building my case for my SOPO discharge, I spoke to the head of the PO to retrieve documents etc. I found conflicting info between my memories and what they wrote at meetings (I had kept a diary writing after each meeting). I mentioned about meetings being recorded and they listed so many reasons it would not happen ranging from storage of media, to its security and who would validate interpretation of the meaning behind words said. Its hard enough to get the tapes of police interviews. I was in my local corner shop the other day and I noticed that the staff were all wearing bodycams, just like the police do. The technology to do it is cheaper than ever.
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xDanx
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 355,
Visits: 10K
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I have not read this headline in full as yet, but will in due course. From what has been said so far I would be in agreement and change with the system needs to happen.
In regards to the visit reports, I do have one question to ask as I am not sure how to proceed.
Around 3 months ago around the same time I put in my application to discharge my SHPO, I submitted a request for information with my local force specifically asking for the visit reports. I have a response confirming my request was received but I have had no further response since. I believe someone told me it usually takes 1 month? I have asked my solicitor for advice on this, but she too has failed to respond advising me. I am not certain who I would need to contact in order to find out why it is taking so long.
If any one could advise that would be great.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 1.6K
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+x+xThere was a story on the news a few weeks back that said they couldn’t report what had happened to the children because it was so bad. Another story where there were very weird goings on somewhere in South Wales. Jimmy *avile would probably fit that description too. We have no idea what's really going on out there. So he’s probably not wrong in saying that. Nobody can be seen to be showing any sympathy towards offenders, it’s all wrong, no ifs or buts. I certainly don’t envy the police’s job in ‘management’, especially the amount of backlash they would get if they got something wrong.
On the same hand... it recommends: I recommend that the government commissions research into non-judicial diversion options for some online offenders. I said this years ago and I was accused of playing down the offence and here they are putting it into action.
But also:
Action: I recommend that MOSOVO staff routinely video/audio record home visits and retain recordings alongside risk assessments and risk management plans.Timeframe: Within 6 months.Within 6 months.Within 6 months. I'm sorry, you can't just decide that. What for? Is there not an issue of consent here? We have a human right to a private life.
If this happens, I can foresee a lot of silence for the **voluntary** questions we’re asked during visits. When it comes to recording home visits, they already make notes, but then SO complain that they didn't record all the positive things people have done, in their risk assessment. So it would lead to a full record being kept of what was said, in case of any disputes. You could then ask for a copy of the recording in your SAR request too. I can see upsides to it, as well as downsides. The PPU would no longer be able to deny that they had said something to you. When I was building my case for my SOPO discharge, I spoke to the head of the PO to retrieve documents etc. I found conflicting info between my memories and what they wrote at meetings (I had kept a diary writing after each meeting). I mentioned about meetings being recorded and they listed so many reasons it would not happen ranging from storage of media, to its security and who would validate interpretation of the meaning behind words said. Its hard enough to get the tapes of police interviews.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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