punter99
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 811,
Visits: 6.2K
|
+x+xhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25046790/not-enough-paedophiles-jailed-warns-national-crime-agency/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/13/eight-in-10-convicted-in-uk-over-child-abuse-images-avoid-prison-nca-saysConsidering that the countries prisons are full up , this was a surprising comment from Graham Biggar of the NCA . The College of Policing even says that custodial sentences increase re offending rates , because they expose people to criminal influences in prison and remove them from protective factors on the outside . But when you read into the story , its clear that he doesn ' t get what is actually going on . He ' s conflating the worst offenders on the dark web with the low hanging fruit , who make up most of the people arrested . A report by the Guardian showed that 50 % of them are in fact children . Does he want those kids locked up too ? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/04/thousands-young-people-caught-watching-online-child-abuse-images-scary-figures-show-england-walesAt the most extreme end of the spectrum , are the people running these dark net websites , and when they do get caught , they usually receive very long prison sentences . But the vast majority of offenders are not running websites , they are clicking on links to what they think is legal porn and getting referred to the police by social media firms . Something like 80 % of all the referrals come from the NCMEC in the USA , which then passes them on to other countries Most of the people being arrested are porn addicts , not pedophiles and they need treatment for their addiction not prison . The House of Lords recently produced a report recommending better use of Community sentences and in particular mental health treatment and addiction services . But they missed a trick . They only considered drug and alcohol addiction , not porn addiction . This is a health and addiction issue , not a crime issue , so it should be dealt with by the NHS , but unfortunately they don ' t recognise porn or sex addiction , as a real addiction . Until that changes , we are going to see more ignorant comments from people like Graham Biggar , sadly . Whilst I completely agree with what you say , the majority of the public would not . I remember being on a " employing people with convictions " course a few years ago and the tutor had data on the screen and stated something like " people with a sexual offense are disproportionately less likely to reoffend than the majority of other offences ". To which there was a chorus of " I don ' t believe that " and arguments . The guy put up the data and the rational , and the consensus from the group was that it simply couldn ' t be true and dismissed it .& nbsp ; You talk about sexual offending . I wholly believe that if we gat to a place where it is openly accepted that sexual offending is 100 % unacceptable , but it is understood that f people seek help early and without stigma ( almost like drugs / gambling etc ) the number of people being prosecuted would drop massively and ultimately everyone would be safer . But again this doesn ' t fit the narrative the majority believe .& nbsp ; There was outrage when it was discovered that the NSPCC provided funding to the Lucy Faithfull foundation ( a charity that works with adults to stop them offending against children . This speaks volumes in my opinion . Prevention is better that dealing with the outcome , but people simply don ' t want to accept this . The problem is that people ' s perception doesn ' t match the truth . Government and political parties align themselves with what the public want and therefore we are where we are . I can ' t see it changing. It ' s isn ' t necessary to convince every member of the public , in order to get change . Really , you only have to convince a few people in positions of power and they will make change happen . It ' s also about appealing to the specific interests of those in power , which often include financial considerations . The debate around prisons is a good example . The govt would really like to get offenders into work and paying tax , not have them sitting around in prison , which costs the taxpayer £ 50 , 000 per person per year . When it comes to SO , it ' s really a numbers game . If there are only a few SO , then they can afford to lock them all up and take the hit financially . But what if there are tens of thousands of SO ? Then it becomes more expensive . Also , what if those SO are mostly children ? It looks bad for any govt , to be locking up thousands of children . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12944949/Children-committing-18-rapes-DAY-15-000-rapes-sex-attacks-year-shocking-report-finds-police-warn-sexual-violence-normalised-online-pornography.htmlI kind of like this headline from the Mail . It ' s a great illustration of how to misuse statistics . They give the impression that every child in Britain is committing 18 rapes a day , when of course what they are really saying is the average figure for all children . But the reaction to it is interesting . Even the Mail readers don ' t want to lock up children , so how you present the argument matters too .
|
|
|
AB2014
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 7.7K
|
+xhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25046790/not-enough-paedophiles-jailed-warns-national-crime-agency/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/13/eight-in-10-convicted-in-uk-over-child-abuse-images-avoid-prison-nca-saysConsidering that the countries prisons are full up , this was a surprising comment from Graham Biggar of the NCA . The College of Policing even says that custodial sentences increase re offending rates , because they expose people to criminal influences in prison and remove them from protective factors on the outside . But when you read into the story , its clear that he doesn ' t get what is actually going on . He ' s conflating the worst offenders on the dark web with the low hanging fruit , who make up most of the people arrested . A report by the Guardian showed that 50 % of them are in fact children . Does he want those kids locked up too ? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/04/thousands-young-people-caught-watching-online-child-abuse-images-scary-figures-show-england-walesAt the most extreme end of the spectrum , are the people running these dark net websites , and when they do get caught , they usually receive very long prison sentences . But the vast majority of offenders are not running websites , they are clicking on links to what they think is legal porn and getting referred to the police by social media firms . Something like 80 % of all the referrals come from the NCMEC in the USA , which then passes them on to other countries Most of the people being arrested are porn addicts , not pedophiles and they need treatment for their addiction not prison . The House of Lords recently produced a report recommending better use of Community sentences and in particular mental health treatment and addiction services . But they missed a trick . They only considered drug and alcohol addiction , not porn addiction . This is a health and addiction issue , not a crime issue , so it should be dealt with by the NHS , but unfortunately they don ' t recognise porn or sex addiction , as a real addiction . Until that changes , we are going to see more ignorant comments from people like Graham Biggar , sadly . Another aspect of this issue is covered by the BBC here. As you say , many of these are low - hanging fruit , and in this case many of the suspects are unaware of the implications . Ignorance of the law is not a defence , but this sort of thing is the reason why Outcome 21 was introduced . Of course , Outcome 21 is an informal outcome , not a conviction , but it must still feature in official statistics . I doubt the NCA is involved in any of those cases , but I ' m not going to make any excuses for them . They should make a point of knowing what they ' re talking about . I think it ' s unlikely that those two newspapers would distort or misquote what he said in the same way , but it does show the attitude of at least some people in law enforcement .
=========================================================================================================
If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
|
|
|
Steadfast
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 53,
Visits: 1.4K
|
+xhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25046790/not-enough-paedophiles-jailed-warns-national-crime-agency/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/13/eight-in-10-convicted-in-uk-over-child-abuse-images-avoid-prison-nca-saysConsidering that the countries prisons are full up , this was a surprising comment from Graham Biggar of the NCA . The College of Policing even says that custodial sentences increase re offending rates , because they expose people to criminal influences in prison and remove them from protective factors on the outside . But when you read into the story , its clear that he doesn ' t get what is actually going on . He ' s conflating the worst offenders on the dark web with the low hanging fruit , who make up most of the people arrested . A report by the Guardian showed that 50 % of them are in fact children . Does he want those kids locked up too ? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/04/thousands-young-people-caught-watching-online-child-abuse-images-scary-figures-show-england-walesAt the most extreme end of the spectrum , are the people running these dark net websites , and when they do get caught , they usually receive very long prison sentences . But the vast majority of offenders are not running websites , they are clicking on links to what they think is legal porn and getting referred to the police by social media firms . Something like 80 % of all the referrals come from the NCMEC in the USA , which then passes them on to other countries Most of the people being arrested are porn addicts , not pedophiles and they need treatment for their addiction not prison . The House of Lords recently produced a report recommending better use of Community sentences and in particular mental health treatment and addiction services . But they missed a trick . They only considered drug and alcohol addiction , not porn addiction . This is a health and addiction issue , not a crime issue , so it should be dealt with by the NHS , but unfortunately they don ' t recognise porn or sex addiction , as a real addiction . Until that changes , we are going to see more ignorant comments from people like Graham Biggar , sadly . Whilst I completely agree with what you say , the majority of the public would not . I remember being on a " employing people with convictions " course a few years ago and the tutor had data on the screen and stated something like " people with a sexual offense are disproportionately less likely to reoffend than the majority of other offences ". To which there was a chorus of " I don ' t believe that " and arguments . The guy put up the data and the rational , and the consensus from the group was that it simply couldn ' t be true and dismissed it .& nbsp ; You talk about sexual offending . I wholly believe that if we gat to a place where it is openly accepted that sexual offending is 100 % unacceptable , but it is understood that f people seek help early and without stigma ( almost like drugs / gambling etc ) the number of people being prosecuted would drop massively and ultimately everyone would be safer . But again this doesn ' t fit the narrative the majority believe .& nbsp ; There was outrage when it was discovered that the NSPCC provided funding to the Lucy Faithfull foundation ( a charity that works with adults to stop them offending against children . This speaks volumes in my opinion . Prevention is better that dealing with the outcome , but people simply don ' t want to accept this . The problem is that people ' s perception doesn ' t match the truth . Government and political parties align themselves with what the public want and therefore we are where we are . I can ' t see it changing.
|
|
|
punter99
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 811,
Visits: 6.2K
|
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25046790/not-enough-paedophiles-jailed-warns-national-crime-agency/https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/13/eight-in-10-convicted-in-uk-over-child-abuse-images-avoid-prison-nca-saysConsidering that the countries prisons are full up , this was a surprising comment from Graham Biggar of the NCA . The College of Policing even says that custodial sentences increase re offending rates , because they expose people to criminal influences in prison and remove them from protective factors on the outside . But when you read into the story , its clear that he doesn ' t get what is actually going on . He ' s conflating the worst offenders on the dark web with the low hanging fruit , who make up most of the people arrested . A report by the Guardian showed that 50 % of them are in fact children . Does he want those kids locked up too ? https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/04/thousands-young-people-caught-watching-online-child-abuse-images-scary-figures-show-england-walesAt the most extreme end of the spectrum , are the people running these dark net websites , and when they do get caught , they usually receive very long prison sentences . But the vast majority of offenders are not running websites , they are clicking on links to what they think is legal porn and getting referred to the police by social media firms . Something like 80 % of all the referrals come from the NCMEC in the USA , which then passes them on to other countries Most of the people being arrested are porn addicts , not pedophiles and they need treatment for their addiction not prison . The House of Lords recently produced a report recommending better use of Community sentences and in particular mental health treatment and addiction services . But they missed a trick . They only considered drug and alcohol addiction , not porn addiction . This is a health and addiction issue , not a crime issue , so it should be dealt with by the NHS , but unfortunately they don ' t recognise porn or sex addiction , as a real addiction . Until that changes , we are going to see more ignorant comments from people like Graham Biggar , sadly .
|
|
|