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RG
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Dear Andy,
Thank you. I expected it. Thats the reason I decided to scoot. Can earn wonderfully elsewhere than wait for these tossers! I will be back. I will get my passport without a doubt. But I take this as a challenge. Again being on a lucrative post overseas will do no harm on return. Rather than live with a stigma of a CRB check and worry.
cheers
RG
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RG
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Atleas its a start. Hopefully they will amend it to the lines of Dholakia Amendment. In France once the debt to society is paid back thats it. UK is more socialist in many things than many countries
RG
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RG
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Dear XL,
The French laws are amazing. There is a clear cut distinction between minor incidents(Crimes) and their treatment of suspended sentences is far more fair than in UK. There are separate courts to deal with different crimes.
I have read a lot on their Laws. Their suspended sentences are strict. But If you comply with their conditions and do not re offend during the operational period which could go upto 3 years, the sentence is erased. But if you reoffend unlike in UK, they will make sure you will have to serve custody, no more suspensions.
Now incidentally the LASPO bill amendments will also open a Pandora's box. I am sure many of the members of this forum would have witnessed, from their time in Probation that a lot of petty repeat offenders could be seen doing unpaid work. I saw a group smoke weed and even offered me weed. To such folks whether a sentence is spent or not makes no difference. I spoke to many out of curiosity. Some gun runners, some dope peddlers, some petty thiefs, some part of gangs that had terrific experience on how to run rings around the probation supervisors.
I had to do 60hours unpaid work and finished it up quickly so that I could escape from that mad , deluded world. I was taken to a club to mow the lawns. Most of the chaps sat in the club house smoking pot. The supervisor was with a newspaper. I was out with a mover trying to do something. A lot of them shouting at me to stop. One said they aint gonna pay you m8! The supervisor ''Take it easy man!''. Then a few breaks for food, coffee, chatting. Its a joke. The whole system.
I was treated specially because I helped fix the supervisors' laptop problems. Great Britain is where it is because of all these things.
RG
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RG
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Dear XL, Please check the next thread by Chris Stacey where I posted by mistake more info. Short term sentences do not figure in their CRB disclosure at all. And ones which have been expressly ordered by the courts, alone get disclosed. cheers RG Post Edited (RG) : 08/02/2012 14:03:54 GMT
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RG
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Dear Captain Sensible,
Yes but atleast they are thinking change now after 37 years. Unless spent convictions are wiped clean and strict rules to prevent employers from using conviction info to discriminate for posts which do not involve working directly with children and vulnerable adults happens its pretty much the same story.
Talking of violence there is no distinction between summary sentences and ABH and GBH . All attract the same rehab periods even though the law says summary offense should carry their own rehabilitation periods.
Take my case for disciplining my son, I was accused of Battery u/s 39 but the consequences are as bad as any other. I found a person who received a community sentence, I know another who received a fine, another a suspended sentence for similar ''Offence''. Until serious change comes about we have to endure.
cheers
RG
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RG
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Dear Peter,
Thank you for agreeing with it. Its incredible, this country. I am not criticizing. On the one hand they say people have to get back into jobs and today there was a headline highlighting the huge number of households without any working individuals as the cause of the recession and gloom.
Then red tape, new rules, health and ****ty (apologies for the pun), so many direct and indirect hurdles prevent people from leading a free life. It has been an eye opener. Necessity is the mother of all invention. The system is what it is. The lack of a sense of urgency speaks for itself. I do not expect any major changes to be ushered in. After these rules kick in May 2013, maybe they will wait for a few years to analyze the changes before even thinking of what needs to be done. By that time a generation would have lost their earning potential and prime time.
cheers
RG
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RG
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Rash,
You can count yourself amongst the lucky few. Since you are due to apply for ILR in APR 2013, the fine would be spent based on the amendments to the ROA 1974 which became law through the LASPO bill which is expected to become applicable from Apr-2013.
Yes ''No Rehabilitation for certain immigration decisions'' is tricky. You have no right of appeal against immigration decisions. So if a jobs worth decides you were of bad character because of a single conviction which was spent, you are done. All the National Insurance and Taxes you paid are usurped in one shot. It remains to be seen the aftermath of this change. Previously ROA was being used as the basis for deciding whether a person was of good character and in making the immigration decisions on whether to grant FLR,ILR and citizenship. Now the red tape powers are increased by this. It has the potential to open a pandora's box in the interim. For new people who migrate to this country (if at all) they have no recourse should this piece be used to deny them their legitimate expectations. So I will not be surprised to see litigations on this sentence bleeding the tax payer in the days ahead.
Since this is becoming the law in April-13, people that are already in this country as migrants and have contributed can sue the Home office on the grounds of legitimate expectations and for breach of Human rights should this change be used to deny them their dues.
Its all politics sans common sense m8. Count your blessings. If you had to apply for your ILR in Feb-2013, I would not be sure if they would have granted it to you.
RG
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crabbies
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Heres a link to the suns reporting on the subject if you haven't seen it yet www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4105946/Anger-as-Ken-Clarke-goes-soft-on-cons.htmlPost Edited (crabbies) : 03/02/2012 12:10:08 GMT
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crabbies
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No my mistake, should be ok now.
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AT
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https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0109/amend/su109-viib.htm
Government finally introduces the changes to LAPSO BILL.
Not sure what happens to the suspended sentences.
Anyone knows?
But screw your courage to the sticking place, And well not fail.
AT
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RD
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Hi all,
It looks like someone with a 2 or 3 year community order (12M from end of order) will have longer to wait than someone who is imprisoned for 6 months (12M from end of sentence)! Is seems ludicrouse that an offence not deemed suitable for imprisonment remains declareable for longer than one that is!
Any thoughts?
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The Stig
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Yea i have just seen this on the BBC news tonight. It sounds good news but then again its been leaked out to the public so i wont count my chickens just yet. It is only words no action yet.
Only 2'699 days left on my SOPO,ROA,SOR
We all accept our crimes but should we be punished more for it?
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The Stig
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Ben230 I for one am afraid that the proposed changes will be shot down in the press.Yes I all so think this as well 
Only 2'699 days left on my SOPO,ROA,SOR
We all accept our crimes but should we be punished more for it?
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The Stig
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Reading some of the comments on the Sun and Mail papers is very shocking. Very true, last year my son who is a sparky worked at Cardiff jail a new wing was built....Each prisoner, had his own cell, sky, dvd/cd player, Tv, heated cells....Man these mp's r living in a land of make believe....Put oaps in jail as they will get 4 meals a day and no heating bills 2 pay. 4 meals a day / sky tv / heated cells I did not get this when I was in prison. where was he then HMP Savoy
Only 2'699 days left on my SOPO,ROA,SOR
We all accept our crimes but should we be punished more for it?
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DJ
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What's happened to a filtering system for old and minor offences?
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MC
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Here you go Marmite. No sooner than you ask how long before the start of the backlash...... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095484/Ken-Clarke-sparks-anger-opposition-longer-jail-terms.html (Pay particular attention to the blue box about half way down in the link)
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MC
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Don't mean to repeat you with this link Arv but just to make the link live.
Sorry, don't think I can help you with suspended sentences unfortunatly.
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d211q2
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I must say that firstly I appreciate that for some members the ROA reform proposals don't provide any improvement. For those in that category, I'm genuinely sorry - it must be very difficult, particularly considering that you by implication will also likely have served some long sentences.
Notwithstanding that, I do believe that any reform at all is a significant step forward. ROA reform cannot possibly at the forefront of many parties' political agenda. It is not something that enjoys wide public support, one only needs to look at the popular press's reaction to appreciate that. For a small organisation like UNLOCK to have pressed for reforms, of which a significant proportion seem currently likely to be acted upon, I feel is a good thing, and will make a difference to a great many former offenders. It undoubtedly is a pity that they don't go as far as they might, but I do strongly believe that any reform, particularly in the context of no changes at all in the last four decades, is a result that should not be regarded as a disappointment.
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d211q2
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Captain Sensible said...
Hi Christopher Stacy
The difference pre-96/7 was that the CRB question was rarely if ever asked by employers (eduction and training). In some cases you had to sign a Consent Form on acceptance of a job but this was not necessarily followed up. Perhaps they just wanted the option if you turned out to be a "problem".
The absolutely huge difference was that in those "golden" days your "Spent" convictions did not show up!!! Can you even begin to imagine how joyous that was? I happened to work in education and training (with young and vunerable people) pre conviction; during the time the conviction was live, and then with the "spent" convictions for over a decade, without incident. I was employed in FE until I left in 2002 to raise a family. It was some 5 years later when I tried to return to work that I realised it was now impossible to even secure an interview if you ticked the "yes I have spent convictions" box. If however you answered "no" to that question, you would get an interview, and you'd then go through the charade of explaining it when you were offered the job.
My gripe is that the 96/7 change has effectively ruined my otherwise successful and blemish-free career. Even though I have good references etc etc I feel like I am just not prepared to go through the "game" with employers, and have to drag up and relive something that happened over 25 years ago. The Taxpayer has subsidised my part-time education up to Masters level, and yet this small change in the law prevents me from putting something back into the community. I would not "volunteer" on principle. And I will not accept a "Mac Job". So it looks like I will be a burden on the Taxpayer for life. I just don't care any more. I could not have done more to establish myself as a good, hard-working trustworthy person. My record of promotions at work supports this. So to be suddenly "written off" halfway through your working life, 25 years post-conviction is really hard to stomach. I have zero faith in the State and almost wish I hadn't bothered with wasting my life studying and working. In some ways, however, your circumstances aren't necessarily a result of CRB legislation, but of your own actions as response to it. This brings up a wider issue for me, is that in some cases, ROA/CRB etc. though it is undeniably a barrier to employment in some cases, it isn't the only one. I worry that many members think there will be a huge variety of opportunities available once the amendments pass, but realistically that won't necessarily happen. Folk are going to have to be very pro-active in terms of seeking a job - just because one barrier has been removed, doesn't make it a cakewalk. Notwithstanding the above, I think the amendment is an absolutely huge achievement by UNLOCK and its members. For a small charity to be able to influence the political agenda and make a difference really is very well done indeed. I'd like to finish by saying I'm aware how precarious UNLOCK's financial situation is. I would like to urge fellow members to donate regularly - it's an important cause.
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Anonymous
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Yes, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Captain. I noticed the change in attitudes around ’95 whilst working in mental health. I jumped before I was pushed. Don’t agree with the education and life experience though; having plenty of both made you realize you’re banging your head on the wall, whilst those without are still struggling to convince the various HR departments that according to section blah blah they’re reformed and generally getting nowhere. In the ROA stakes some won whilst the majority lost; back to the declaring v not debate then.
With all due respect Regards Marmite
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