Post Brexit- impact on travelling to Europe


Post Brexit- impact on travelling to Europe

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Normallife
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Is anyone else worried about what might happen if we choose to abandon freedom of movement during Brexit negotiations?

One area of concern is we would require visas to travel to the continent and may be required to declare convictions! This is unbelievable! Our right to travel, move freely and live in Europe is under threat. This is an extremely important issue that affects all of us and I'm surprised it hasn't been raised much on this forum. One would think that as time goes by, a country becomes more civilized- in a civilized country the citizens have rights- such as what we have currently with EU freedom of movement. However, that's not the case with the UK as it seems we're gonna be hit hard by the impact of Brexit. 



AB2014
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Normallife - 13 Aug 17 1:54 PM
Is anyone else worried about what might happen if we choose to abandon freedom of movement during Brexit negotiations?

One area of concern is we would require visas to travel to the continent and may be required to declare convictions! This is unbelievable! Our right to travel, move freely and live in Europe is under threat. This is an extremely important issue that affects all of us and I'm surprised it hasn't been raised much on this forum. One would think that as time goes by, a country becomes more civilized- in a civilized country the citizens have rights- such as what we have currently with EU freedom of movement. However, that's not the case with the UK as it seems we're gonna be hit hard by the impact of Brexit. 



One probable reason why it hasn't been raised much is that nobody knows how it will turn out. The government is committed to ending freedom of movement, and is clearly happy to cut off their nose to spite their face, but then the European Commission previously aired the idea of all UK citizens being given associate EU citizenship, whatever that is. I'm not aware of the legality of EU citizenship, as there are only citizens of EU member states. Sadly, there are still members of the Cabinet who seem to believe that we're calling the shots on Brexit and that the EU will end up doing what we ask and give us a better deal than we already have, even though they've been told time and again by senior EU figures that it won't happen.
Debbie Sadler
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Hi Normallife

The idea of a European Travel Information and Authorisation Scheme to enter the EU is certainly worrying. 

However as AB2014 says and the European Commission have confirmed, the exact details are yet to be finalised and a visa scheme is still very much in the proposal stage. As it's something that's likely to affect anybody with a criminal record, we'll be adding information to our Hub site as and when we know more. 

Debs





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AB2014
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Deb S - 16 Aug 17 8:16 AM
Hi Normallife

The idea of a European Travel Information and Authorisation Scheme to enter the EU is certainly worrying. 

However as AB2014 says and the European Commission have confirmed, the exact details are yet to be finalised and a visa scheme is still very much in the proposal stage. As it's something that's likely to affect anybody with a criminal record, we'll be adding information to our Hub site as and when we know more. 

Debs




Today's news is that the UK Government is suggesting visa-free travel for EU nationals visiting the UK for tourism, but not for work or study. Now if that is accepted and the EU does the same, that shouldn't be too bad. Don't give up hope just yet.
paulbarker
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Normallife - 13 Aug 17 1:54 PM
Is anyone else worried about what might happen if we choose to abandon freedom of movement during Brexit negotiations?

One area of concern is we would require visas to travel to the continent and may be required to declare convictions! This is unbelievable! Our right to travel, move freely and live in Europe is under threat. This is an extremely important issue that affects all of us and I'm surprised it hasn't been raised much on this forum. One would think that as time goes by, a country becomes more civilized- in a civilized country the citizens have rights- such as what we have currently with EU freedom of movement. However, that's not the case with the UK as it seems we're gonna be hit hard by the impact of Brexit. 



This is a useful post from Unlock - http://hub.unlock.org.uk/weve-voted-leave-eu-consequences-people-criminal-record/ - also copied below:

The votes have been counted and we now know that we’ll be leaving the EU. The consequences could be huge, and the coming years may initially be economically and socially disruptive. But, how will it affect you if you have a criminal record?

This is a question that’s come up quite a bit over the last month or so. It’s still very unclear, but we’ve tried to answer some of the questions that we’ve had.

Travel

There has been talk that in the event of the UK leaving the single market, we’ll need a visa to travel to other EU countries.

The UK is second only to Germany in terms of tourists visiting other countries in the EU. We think it’s unlikely that the governments of Spain and Greece would single us out for tougher treatment at borders and we doubt there will be a need for visas to travel to the EU on holiday. If this were the case, there’d be no need to worry about disclosing your criminal record to get a visa like you do if you want to travel to the US.

If Brexit were to lead to a more radical split of the EU, then the Schengen arrangements (which controls border crossing between most of the member states) would presumably end and border checks may be re-introduced. We don’t feel this will happen any time soon.

Studying

Undergraduates in England pay the highest tuition fees in the world, leading to some students looking to go to cheaper European universities. The National Union of Students have said that the effect of Brexit may lead to student visas being required and international fees being charged for courses. The introduction of student visas may mean there would be a requirement to disclose a criminal record, irrespective of the course that you’ll be studying.

Work

The ability to work in the EU without a work permit is down to our EU membership. One of the key arguments of the leave campaign was that we operate a quota system for migrant workers. If this is imposed, British citizens may face similar restrictions. As in the case of student visas, applying for a work permit (and perhaps a Police Certificate) may require you to disclose your criminal record in a way you don’t need to at the moment.

Exchange of criminal record data

Through the European Criminal Records Information System (ECRIS), an electronic exchange mechanism is in place for the sharing of information between EU members. ECRIS is not extended to any non-EU countries, however countries that are fully part of Schengen (i.e. Norway and Switzerland) do exchange information.

Broadly speaking, the EU court has rules that personal data can only be transferred to non-EU countries that have data protection laws ‘essentially equivalent’ to EU law. The UK would therefore have to commit to continuing to apply a law similar to EU law or risk disruptions in the flow of personal data. It’s likely that our data protection law will be ‘essentially equivalent’ to EU law.

European Convention on Human Rights

Currently the UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), a code of conduct enforced by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. It exists separately from membership of the EU but it does have a fundamental impact on EU law decisions.

It’s worth noting that withdrawal from the EU will not automatically affect the UK’s status as a signatory to the ECHR.

Are our rehabilitation laws at risk?

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is a piece of legislation that the UK Government reformed in 2014. It should not be impacted by the UK leaving the EU.

The filtering mechanism brought into force in 2013 was off the back of a successful legal challenge which used ECHR arguments. However, the way it was introduced was through amendments to UK legislation, the Police Act 1997. Again, it should not be impacted by the UK leaving the EU.

 

AB2014
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paulbarker - 17 Aug 17 3:43 PM
Normallife - 13 Aug 17 1:54 PM
Is anyone else worried about what might happen if we choose to abandon freedom of movement during Brexit negotiations?

One area of concern is we would require visas to travel to the continent and may be required to declare convictions! This is unbelievable! Our right to travel, move freely and live in Europe is under threat. This is an extremely important issue that affects all of us and I'm surprised it hasn't been raised much on this forum. One would think that as time goes by, a country becomes more civilized- in a civilized country the citizens have rights- such as what we have currently with EU freedom of movement. However, that's not the case with the UK as it seems we're gonna be hit hard by the impact of Brexit. 



This is a useful post from Unlock - http://hub.unlock.org.uk/weve-voted-leave-eu-consequences-people-criminal-record/ - also copied below:

The votes have been counted and we now know that we’ll be leaving the EU. The consequences could be huge, and the coming years may initially be economically and socially disruptive. But, how will it affect you if you have a criminal record?

This is a question that’s come up quite a bit over the last month or so. It’s still very unclear, but we’ve tried to answer some of the questions that we’ve had.

Travel

There has been talk that in the event of the UK leaving the single market, we’ll need a visa to travel to other EU countries.

The UK is second only to Germany in terms of tourists visiting other countries in the EU. We think it’s unlikely that the governments of Spain and Greece would single us out for tougher treatment at borders and we doubt there will be a need for visas to travel to the EU on holiday. If this were the case, there’d be no need to worry about disclosing your criminal record to get a visa like you do if you want to travel to the US.

If Brexit were to lead to a more radical split of the EU, then the Schengen arrangements (which controls border crossing between most of the member states) would presumably end and border checks may be re-introduced. We don’t feel this will happen any time soon.

Studying

Undergraduates in England pay the highest tuition fees in the world, leading to some students looking to go to cheaper European universities. The National Union of Students have said that the effect of Brexit may lead to student visas being required and international fees being charged for courses. The introduction of student visas may mean there would be a requirement to disclose a criminal record, irrespective of the course that you’ll be studying.

Work

The ability to work in the EU without a work permit is down to our EU membership. One of the key arguments of the leave campaign was that we operate a quota system for migrant workers. If this is imposed, British citizens may face similar restrictions. As in the case of student visas, applying for a work permit (and perhaps a Police Certificate) may require you to disclose your criminal record in a way you don’t need to at the moment.

Exchange of criminal record data

Through the European Criminal Records Information System (ECRIS), an electronic exchange mechanism is in place for the sharing of information between EU members. ECRIS is not extended to any non-EU countries, however countries that are fully part of Schengen (i.e. Norway and Switzerland) do exchange information.

Broadly speaking, the EU court has rules that personal data can only be transferred to non-EU countries that have data protection laws ‘essentially equivalent’ to EU law. The UK would therefore have to commit to continuing to apply a law similar to EU law or risk disruptions in the flow of personal data. It’s likely that our data protection law will be ‘essentially equivalent’ to EU law.

European Convention on Human Rights

Currently the UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), a code of conduct enforced by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. It exists separately from membership of the EU but it does have a fundamental impact on EU law decisions.

It’s worth noting that withdrawal from the EU will not automatically affect the UK’s status as a signatory to the ECHR.

Are our rehabilitation laws at risk?

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is a piece of legislation that the UK Government reformed in 2014. It should not be impacted by the UK leaving the EU.

The filtering mechanism brought into force in 2013 was off the back of a successful legal challenge which used ECHR arguments. However, the way it was introduced was through amendments to UK legislation, the Police Act 1997. Again, it should not be impacted by the UK leaving the EU.

 

These are all good points, but some need a bit of qualification. The issue of travel will be greatly affected by the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. As the Republic will still be in the EU, our arrangements with them can't be different to with the rest of the EU. That one will run and run.

Students might need visas, and the UK Government's latest suggestion backs that up, but many EU countries are far more tolerant of criminal records, especially in relation to juveniles and young adults.

Access to ECRIS and the Schengen Information System is subject to accepting the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, which the UK Government is determined not to do, so maybe our law won't be seen as 'essentially the same', and the detail suggests the UK won't have access once we leave.

The ECHR is intimately involved in the Northern Ireland Peace Process, so if the UK pulls out of that, it pulls out of the Peace Process as well, no matter what Brexiteers claim. Can't see anyone wanting to be the Prime Minister responsible for that.

The rehabilitation laws are independent of European law, so we'll still have them, for better or worse.

Still plenty of time for all that to be sorted out, once the financial settlement is agreed.
One Time Crim
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http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-4162_en.htm

While I think it's unlikely that most British citizens will require a visa to travel to Europe after Brexit, there are plans afoot to introduce an electronic authorisation system to pre-assess people travelling under a visa-waiver scheme by 2020. This would be like the ESTA system for the US and similar electronic authorisations for travel to countries including Australia, Canada and India. The system is likely to be named ETIAS. While the details haven't been agreed yet, given my background I could be excluded from Europe for up to 20 years.

The Independent newspaper suggests "Personal information including name, address, contact details, passport details and occupation (with your job title and employer, or for students, the name of educational establishment). There will also be questions about your state of health, particularly any infectious diseases. You must give details of any convictions in the past 20 years for serious crimes, including those involving terrorism, armed robbery, child pornography, fraud and money laundering, cybercrime, illicit trafficking in endangered animal species, counterfeiting, industrial espionage, arson, racism and xenophobia." But the proposals haven't been approved yet, so this is just speculation at the moment.

Let's hope the Brexit negotiations include preferential travel arrangements, otherwise no more Spanish sun in the depths of winter for me and my ability to conduct business in Europe will be severely limited. A topic worthy of discussion in our community I think.
AB2014
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One Time Crim - 29 Oct 17 11:45 AM
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-4162_en.htm

While I think it's unlikely that most British citizens will require a visa to travel to Europe after Brexit, there are plans afoot to introduce an electronic authorisation system to pre-assess people travelling under a visa-waiver scheme by 2020. This would be like the ESTA system for the US and similar electronic authorisations for travel to countries including Australia, Canada and India. The system is likely to be named ETIAS. While the details haven't been agreed yet, given my background I could be excluded from Europe for up to 20 years.

The Independent newspaper suggests "Personal information including name, address, contact details, passport details and occupation (with your job title and employer, or for students, the name of educational establishment). There will also be questions about your state of health, particularly any infectious diseases. You must give details of any convictions in the past 20 years for serious crimes, including those involving terrorism, armed robbery, child pornography, fraud and money laundering, cybercrime, illicit trafficking in endangered animal species, counterfeiting, industrial espionage, arson, racism and xenophobia." But the proposals haven't been approved yet, so this is just speculation at the moment.

Let's hope the Brexit negotiations include preferential travel arrangements, otherwise no more Spanish sun in the depths of winter for me and my ability to conduct business in Europe will be severely limited. A topic worthy of discussion in our community I think.

I followed the link and the EU document refers to "good faith travellers". It doesn't offer a definition of a "good faith traveller" or say how they would know who is or isn't one. It still comes back to UK access to EU systems, which are under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. So, it could be even more like the US system, if they have to rely on the honesty of travellers. Either the UK is involved in the system and accepts ECJ jurisdiction, or it refuses ECJ jurisdiction and there is no access either way. Of course, if the UK government does accept ECJ jurisdiction over this, that weakens their case in other areas, so it's not over yet.
Yankee
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One Time Crim - 29 Oct 17 11:45 AM
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-4162_en.htm

While I think it's unlikely that most British citizens will require a visa to travel to Europe after Brexit, there are plans afoot to introduce an electronic authorisation system to pre-assess people travelling under a visa-waiver scheme by 2020. This would be like the ESTA system for the US and similar electronic authorisations for travel to countries including Australia, Canada and India. The system is likely to be named ETIAS. While the details haven't been agreed yet, given my background I could be excluded from Europe for up to 20 years.

The Independent newspaper suggests "Personal information including name, address, contact details, passport details and occupation (with your job title and employer, or for students, the name of educational establishment). There will also be questions about your state of health, particularly any infectious diseases. You must give details of any convictions in the past 20 years for serious crimes, including those involving terrorism, armed robbery, child pornography, fraud and money laundering, cybercrime, illicit trafficking in endangered animal species, counterfeiting, industrial espionage, arson, racism and xenophobia." But the proposals haven't been approved yet, so this is just speculation at the moment.

Let's hope the Brexit negotiations include preferential travel arrangements, otherwise no more Spanish sun in the depths of winter for me and my ability to conduct business in Europe will be severely limited. A topic worthy of discussion in our community I think.

Unfortunately it is the UK side that is also pushing for criminal records checks on immigration post Brexit - it was one of the details in the government's earlier position paper on the citizens rights issue.
AB2014
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Yankee - 1 Nov 17 2:10 PM
One Time Crim - 29 Oct 17 11:45 AM
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-4162_en.htm

While I think it's unlikely that most British citizens will require a visa to travel to Europe after Brexit, there are plans afoot to introduce an electronic authorisation system to pre-assess people travelling under a visa-waiver scheme by 2020. This would be like the ESTA system for the US and similar electronic authorisations for travel to countries including Australia, Canada and India. The system is likely to be named ETIAS. While the details haven't been agreed yet, given my background I could be excluded from Europe for up to 20 years.

The Independent newspaper suggests "Personal information including name, address, contact details, passport details and occupation (with your job title and employer, or for students, the name of educational establishment). There will also be questions about your state of health, particularly any infectious diseases. You must give details of any convictions in the past 20 years for serious crimes, including those involving terrorism, armed robbery, child pornography, fraud and money laundering, cybercrime, illicit trafficking in endangered animal species, counterfeiting, industrial espionage, arson, racism and xenophobia." But the proposals haven't been approved yet, so this is just speculation at the moment.

Let's hope the Brexit negotiations include preferential travel arrangements, otherwise no more Spanish sun in the depths of winter for me and my ability to conduct business in Europe will be severely limited. A topic worthy of discussion in our community I think.

Unfortunately it is the UK side that is also pushing for criminal records checks on immigration post Brexit - it was one of the details in the government's earlier position paper on the citizens rights issue.

Yes, that is one of the main Brexiteer arguments - all those foreign criminals coming over here and putting British criminals out of work Wink and a no-deal Brexit would leave the UK government free to do whatever they want on criminal record checks. Even so, as with the US system, how practical would it be to ask everyone for a police certificate? They would need access to the EU systems, which would mean accepting ECJ jurisdiction. Problems for them either way....
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