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forever changes
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Group: Forum Members
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I can't see where to ask this elsewhere in the forum but I pleaded guilty on date X and sentenced 6 weeks later on date Y. For the purpose of the 15 year ETIAS threshold which is the relevant date ie which counts as the date of conviction - X or Y? I'm going to be scuppered for at least a year anyway but would like to think i'll be able to plan travel to EU countries again someday post May 2023. This (15 year rule) has come as a real shock to me today, I already know I'll have to be economical with the truth to people in my rehabilitated new life who will wonder why I'm not going to Europe as often as I do now, plus all the bad memories of court, police, being shunned etc have come flooding back.
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dedalus
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Group: Forum Members
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+xI went to book a holiday for 2023 today and travel agent (fortunately it seems) mentioned if I knew about ETIAS - which i didn't - but once he explained the gist of it it set alarm bells ringing as I was on the SOR for 10 yrs and a frequent traveller abroad which caused me a lot of stress.and I felt so liberated once I could stop registering travel plans at Police stations and could go through borders without interrogations. Now depressingly i've ended up back at Unlock Forum after several years of freedom of movement trying to find out exactly what the ETIAS rules will be - but can't find a definitive answer. The travel agent today mentioned 10 yrs period general declaration and 15 for terrorism offences but going through this thread it looks like it's actually 15 and 25 respectively?. Once my time on the SOR finished I got rid of all documentation to do with my case so don't know exactly when my conviction was but I think sometime in 2009 which would catch me if the basic time period is 15 yrs. I also got a motoring conviction a few years back when instead of accepting a fixed penalty notice I disputed the case and lost and ignorant that this gave me a criminal conviction, I'm not sure what effect that will have on ETIAS. Also what about if you have to transit in an EU country, do you need ETIAS for that? So I'm going to maximise my travel this year now but annoyed and frustrated the details of what actually will be the rules and when application can be made don't seem available anywhere unless someone can provide a link I think we will just have to wait and see what happens next year when people start applying. The guidance is not clear. IMHO a lot of it will be dealt with manually by each EU country and that is th worrying aspect. My hope was that upon declaring a conviction the application process would scan through the relevant databases and if these were clear then the etias would be approved however upon reading the guidance I think that even if the checks are clear, the application will still go through a manual process with the etias department in the relevant country. So basically even if they cannot check the pnc, upon declaring a conviction, the application will land on someone's desk for manual processing.
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forever changes
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 561,
Visits: 101
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I went to book a holiday for 2023 today and travel agent (fortunately it seems) mentioned if I knew about ETIAS - which i didn't - but once he explained the gist of it it set alarm bells ringing as I was on the SOR for 10 yrs and a frequent traveller abroad which caused me a lot of stress.and I felt so liberated once I could stop registering travel plans at Police stations and could go through borders without interrogations. Now depressingly i've ended up back at Unlock Forum after several years of freedom of movement trying to find out exactly what the ETIAS rules will be - but can't find a definitive answer.
The travel agent today mentioned 10 yrs period general declaration and 15 for terrorism offences but going through this thread it looks like it's actually 15 and 25 respectively?. Once my time on the SOR finished I got rid of all documentation to do with my case so don't know exactly when my conviction was but I think sometime in 2009 which would catch me if the basic time period is 15 yrs. I also got a motoring conviction a few years back when instead of accepting a fixed penalty notice I disputed the case and lost and ignorant that this gave me a criminal conviction, I'm not sure what effect that will have on ETIAS. Also what about if you have to transit in an EU country, do you need ETIAS for that?
So I'm going to maximise my travel this year now but annoyed and frustrated the details of what actually will be the rules and when application can be made don't seem available anywhere unless someone can provide a link
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
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+x+xRegarding Was's point about time limits for disbarring people, that is just for automatic refusals. They still have leeway to refuse entry to people under Immigration Rules part 9. You are correct. A Home Secretary can refuse any application if it gets that far. I'm from a similar sub-continent community (or half of me is) background to her. We refer to it as "pulling the drawbridge up after us"! A former holder of that post brought in an immigration law that would have prevented his father entering the UK as a refugee before the war. Another minister at the time was also the son of a refugee. As a cynic, I suspect that the first rule of government is "Don't do as I do; do as I say." Did somebody mention Partygate?
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Was
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Group: Forum Members
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+xRegarding Was's point about time limits for disbarring people, that is just for automatic refusals. They still have leeway to refuse entry to people under Immigration Rules part 9. You are correct. A Home Secretary can refuse any application if it gets that far. I'm from a similar sub-continent community (or half of me is) background to her. We refer to it as "pulling the drawbridge up after us"!
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Blueman202
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Group: Forum Members
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It depends on which eu state some ask for police certificate for residency some don’t if you just want to live in the eu and not to bothered about which country choose one that doesn’t
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 7.7K
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask. I agree with you re the bureocracy. My issue is that potentially sometime in the future I will probably be applying for residence in one of the EU countries. I have a recent conviction which in the scheme of things isn't earth shattering but if I declare it I am afraid they will just refuse ECRIS permission. All well and good for them to say minor offences would not be an issue but in the guidance there is no red line regarding this so it will imho arbitrarily decided by one of their bureocrats....so I can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency.... To be honest, if you apply for residence in an EU member state, you will probably need to provide a police certificate anyway, and that will always show your conviction. They wouldn't need to refer to ECRIS for that. After that, it's a question of whether you applied for ETIAS without disclosing something you should have disclosed at the time. Regarding Was's point about time limits for disbarring people, that is just for automatic refusals. They still have leeway to refuse entry to people under Immigration Rules part 9. I wouldn't expect any other country not to have the option to exclude people they just don't want for any reason that they can make an attempt at justifying in the Court of Public Opinion....
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Was
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 299,
Visits: 3.7K
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+xI can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency.... Now I don't know what country you are referring to or level of conviction, but even the UK has a threshold for disbarring residential applications because of previous criminal convictions. | Sentence/disposal | Application will be refused until: |
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| Prison sentence between 12 months and 4 years | 15 years from the end of your full sentence (including time on licence) | | Prison sentence up to 12 months | 10 years from the end of your full sentence (including time on licence) | | Non-custodial sentence+ | 3 years from the date of conviction | | Caution | 3 years from the date of caution |
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dedalus
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 63,
Visits: 1.4K
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+x+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask. I agree with you re the bureocracy. My issue is that potentially sometime in the future I will probably be applying for residence in one of the EU countries. I have a recent conviction which in the scheme of things isn't earth shattering but if I declare it I am afraid they will just refuse ECRIS permission. All well and good for them to say minor offences would not be an issue but in the guidance there is no red line regarding this so it will imho arbitrarily decided by one of their bureocrats....so I can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency....
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 7.7K
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+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask.
=========================================================================================================
If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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