Hi xDanx,

You should read that book; 'The Secret Barrister', which shows how cuts to legal aid, have left the criminal justice system in a complete mess. Poor service is very common, because the CPS are so over worked. Like most people, I only found out about my SHPO on the day of sentencing, and there was no way I could take in all the long term implications, given where my head was at. As a result, I am not allowed to own a smartphone at all. This has not been a major issue for me, but as more and more businesses ask you to use their particular app, it does restrict what I can do. Smartphones are becoming more and more essential and the standard SHPO's don't reflect that.

But, when it comes to the question of being Smith compliant, I would say that SO don't only use their apps for contacting children, they also use them to exchange images with other people. Even if your offence is non contact, the PPU would still need to check your WhatsApp messages, to see if you were sending images, or receiving images, from other people, 

 

Hi yes I didn’t even get to go over the shpo I was just given it after the judge gave me a suspended sentence and on my way just like that. Only later reading I thought why I can’t I use WhatsApp with the first ppu I haven’t committed any offences by contact. Even the messenger he just said it best not just in case. As mentioned it leaves them to make up their own mind what one you can’t use. I did ask the solicitor to maybe get the shpo amended but they didn’t even respond to me. It’s like they done their job at court now just deal with it. I will ask next visit if they can get tell me exactly what I can and can’t use. I will also contact solicitors again with the info you supplied and see. Thank you.

I was issued my SHPO on the day and was given less than one hour to read and understand the order, I made issues with Aliases which my barrister tried to argue but did a very poor job of it. Never once mention the smith court of appeal. I put in my complaints to the legal ombudsman regarding the services I received from my solicitors, there conclusion was they found poor service in the firm by failing to provide me a copy of the SHPO 2 days or more in advance. Completely ignoring my arguments on contact restrictions and highlighting of the smith court of appeal. Despite this poor service being identified, they refused me compensation.

Solicitors are well aware of the smith court of appeal, I questioned the firm who "represented" me so it is something widely known but still refuse to do the work to follow what is outline in the smith ruling. Was I denied their full services because I was unable to pay my legal fees? I wonder.

If the lawyers chose not to give you two days' notice, that is their fault, but it is often the case (or at least it was) that the police don't give that notice. In 2008, we were given the proposed text of the SOPO by the court custody staff member who had come to escort me up to court for the sentencing hearing. She did at least give us a couple of minutes to discuss it, but if we had been given enough time to prepare, I'm sure we could have argued for something far more compliant with the eventual guidelines that were issued a couple of years later.

If they did have time to work out arguments but didn't bother, that is definitely down to them.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

It seems yet again, the courts are issuing unrealistic restrictions which could only serve the purpose to set up to fail. If your conviction was for images only and non contact, then there should be no contact restriction as out lined in the smith court of appeal. If there is no evidence suggesting you have committed a contact offence whether that be physically or online using these messaging apps. Then, you should not be restricted from using them because SHPOs should be tailored to the facts of the case. I will include the quoted text from the smith court of appeal below. Had your solicitors or barrister given you 2 or more days notice before being given your SHPO they should have properly amended it, but it would seem they choose not too. Contact your solicitor and find out why your SHPO is not "smith compliant"

Yes, I agree with that. The problem many people face is that the SHPO is worded quite loosely, giving a lot of leeway in interpretation. It comes down to the exact wording, as there is a huge difference between Snapchat and "apps like Snapchat". I don't know, as I've never used it, but you could argue that only Snapchat is like Snapchat, so what do they want from you? Someone must be able to make a decision on what they definitely wouldn't like and what they wouldn't pursue, rather than just saying it's up to the court to rule if they investigate and decide to charge you with a breach.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Sounds like the restriction is on any apps where messages can be 'fully' deleted. Presumably that is because the police want to check them. It's a bit like saying, you can delete your internet browsing history, so we are not going to allow you to browse the internet. Of course, they could still get all the details from your ISP, if they wanted, so internet browsing history is never fully deleted, even if it is deleted from your device.

But I saw this article.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/technology/in-other-news/290716/beware-whatsapp-silently-rolled-out-an-update-allows-recovery-of-deleted-chats.html

"Law enforcement agencies can issue a warrant with Apple to obtain your deleted WhatsApp chat logs. These would also include your deleted messages."

So the police can recover your deleted WhatsApp messages, if they really want to. The SHPO should really say, that you can use these apps, provided you promise not to delete any messages, not that you can't use the apps at all. 

Maybe mention this article to the police and see what they say?

Hey there,

Seems a bit extreme provided you grant them access to have a look when they do their visits. I'd argue having access to a messaging app like WhatsApp is crucial as without your social support network can basically fall apart and thus making you more likely to re-offend. Now, I'm not saying you will re-offend but things like social support networks are considered pretty highly and lack of them, in their eyes, can make you more prone to relapsing. So having a social support network is pretty crucial to getting you back on track.

It does sadly boil down to what your restrictions say - I'd ask your PPU to show you exactly on your SHPO the exact apps you can and can't use. You mentioned it said Snapchat but does it mention any others? Sounds like it could a case of your SHPO essentially being out of date with modern times and technology with a lot of it now being open to interpretation by PPUs. Like mine when it mentions aliases. Originally that's like nicknames and stuff but with the advent of the internet it's basically stretched to any username I have on any website which obviously won't fit in their little text box. I did follow their rules though, I noted down all my active usernames across all the forums and gaming stuff and everything - there were about 200. If that's what they want they're going to work for it.

That being said, it's definitely something I would consider discussing and perhaps getting a solicitor involved with and push the support angle. As always GET IT IN WRITING.

Hi in my shpo it says I can’t use anything like Snapchat. Ppu officer says including things like WhatsApp even though my conviction for indecent images only. My probation officer asked the ppu officer on the initial visit what about messenger. He couldn’t be sure and it all seems ridiculous. Many of my family use messaging apps. They rarely use text messaging. I’m now isolated from my mother and some members of the family because I find it difficult to talk over the phone especially to my mother for help and guidance. Is there any apps that people have had experience with that doesn’t go against their order. I am not to use apps where you can delete messages fully.