First, your SHPO should not have been made 2 years longer than the time on the SOR. Your solicitors should have challenged this quoting the Smith court of appeal. As long as the SHPO is still in place, the time on the SOR will match the length of your SHPO.
If a SHPO is given, the conviction will not become spent until the end date of the SHPO. As for contact restrictions, you are correct that it is disproportionate to the actual offense which the Smith court of appeal also states. The SHPO can not impose restrictions "just in case" you escalate to other offenses.

You can apply to the courts yourself for amendments quoting the smith court of appeal which you can read here, Courts will then decide whether to list a hearing for it (which you may have to attend) or, the judge can look at it with in chambers and accept or deny the application. Some might suggest talking with your PPU, the officer who attends your home visits to inspect devices. But it is very unlikely they would support anything.
You can either represent yourself, (for free) if working pay for solicitors services, complain to your original solicitors requesting they fix this mistake, or if not working find a solicitor who would support you with legal aid.

I am in the process of discharging my order entirely, I have had multiple court hearings and so far no reporters. There is always that risk but it is something I have to put in the back of my mind in or order to move on.

As for relationships, one way or another whoever it is you decide to spend your life with. You wouldn't want to hold anything back, if your conviction was reported on which the public has access too. the last thing you want is for your partner to find out through the media, or even by police. None of them will tell your partner the hardships you faced leading up to the offense, or your reasons for doing it.

Disclosing convictions has many disadvantages, but there are some which do make things easier.
1, you will find out who your true friends are.
2, you are not having to look over your shoulder when a majority of those you care about already know.
3, it will bring you closer to those who stay.

You mentioned you would like to find someone, eventually start a family. One possible outcome that may happen are child services, even after convictions become spent, if they are made aware of an upcoming pregnancy they will become involved. I have seen this happen before with someone 20 + years after the conviction was spent. Hopefully this is not the case, and you will be able to move on and form healthy relationships. But, it is just something to keep in mind.

I wish you luck

I received a conviction in July 2022 for 53 cat C and 2 cat A. It was a low point of my life but it is what it is.

I got a 3 year community order, 5 years on the SOR and 7 years SHPO. I had to do 200hrs community service and I've been given courses to do, but they haven't started yet.

Firstly, why is my SHPO 2 years longer than my SOR? 
Secondly, my offence, whilst disgraceful, was not a contact offence. So why does it say no contact with under 16s? My two nephews for instance? It seems disproportionate. 

Finally, my community order should become spent immediately following the new updates to ROA act (came into force Oct 28th 2023). But the 7 year SHPO affects things too. Does that mean that my community order will remain on my file until the SHPO has finished?

And I guess as a bit of an extra question, is it realistically possible to get my SHPO reduced by 2 years to bring it in line with the duration of my SOR registration? I hear you can write to the court and request it, but that I may need to attend in person to represent myself. And with that, I assume there's the risk of a nosy reporter drifting in and picking up on my case which would be disastrous. So is it better just to leave it?

Once the community order and SHPO are "spent" - can I pretty much get on with my life more or less as normal? How do relationships work after it's spent? I'll be nearly 40 when the SHPO is spent. I'm hoping to be in a relationship before that but I'd need to disclose my conviction to them. Do I need to do that after it's spent? Would they find out if I didn't disclose? Would we be able to have kids after it's spent? 

Hi
Even 1st time contact offenders have a low re-offending stat; you have to look at the data behind the stats to understand the reality. Just ask Elon Musk and what he is investigating before paying for twitter; off the wall but you get the picture.

In the end; and as I have said many times, there are always victims with any SO offence: be it pictures, videos or as in my case prostitution.

I support all SO's as I do not know the true circumstances behind the offence.

The main function to concentrate our efforts on is: that of "self control" so we do not re-offend.

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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The reconviction rate for non contact indecent images offences is less then 5% so 95% of people convicted of this never do it again but the police because of their job  treat everyone as if they are in the 5% who will reoffend

I don't think anyone will notice. The legal system moves so slowly anyway, that it hardly matters if the courts are shut for a couple of days.

Finally. The criminal bar have voted for strike action. I'm with them on this!

That is a very good, informative book. I would like to add "In your defence" by Sarah Langford. It is a difficult read in places, but it backs up what the Secret Barrister says, with perhaps a more personal touch.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Hi
As we know, budget cutting is happening throughout business but seen more when it affects us i.e. government departments.

Could I suggest following; though they would never listen I am sure:
Her Majesty's Inspectorate for Probation states "Reoffending amongst sexual offenders is lower than that of general offenders. Indeed, those who are deemed lower risk have measured reoffending risks similar to the general population and some researchers argue that the resources to manage such cases would be better expended in primary prevention and victim support."

If they can state this then why not assess properly the individual as they are today; not think of them as at the time of their offence, then discharge any activities that require the expenditure of such valuable (scarce) funds. Else as suggests, they should be monitoring "ALL" society. I forget, that is the aim of the Government now with its CCTV etc, but especially its persuasion to start any offence investigation on the belief everything the accuser says is the truth.  

As with most Government policies, expenditure is only a "conversation" as is "rehabilitation", when it comes to vote winning topics.

P.S. i firmly agree with the last few words of the statement. 




Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Two words: Secret Barrister

It's a book everyone should read, but particularly anybody who has had experience of the criminal justice system. It helps to explain why the system doesn't function as it should. But in simple terms, it all comes back to funding. Everyone involved in the system; police, probation, courts, solicitors and prisons are overloaded with work and that leads to them cutting corners and doing a half a*sed job

To be honest, if I'd known of the full impact of disclosure at the time I might have taken it to trial. I wasn't even aware that it was a consequence. 

I too have avoided matters that could cause "problems". Luckily my sisters were quite robust when contacted. One told the PPU "If you interfere with the relationship my daughter has with her Uncle, I will take you to court." She never heard from them again.

I can /do agree with your comments, and it is always on my mind. However, I believe in myself as I have survived the feelings after acknowledging my guilt and that is in the past! The shame is more "damaging" as it cannot be let go as that is arguably controlled by "society".

I have lost and given up so much in regard to relationships just to protect others due to "shame", in particular the consequences of "disclosure".

As said previously, just use the experiences of the past to enable you to enjoy the future and freedom you have.



Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Fair comments, you seem like a positive person. All the best for the future.

Indeed. You can't change the past, but you can shape your own future. The court of public opinion has always loomed large, and from rumblings in Parliament, I suspect we are going to see more of it. Effectively the executive are manoeuvring to allow themselves the ability to override judicial decisions by ministerial diktat. Flawed as judges sometimes are, I prefer them to Daily Mail readers' justice.

P.S. I'm not checking out from here just because my SHPO will soon be over. Lived experience is what we all have in common. The greater the plurality of views, the better chance there is of helping others. 

I can agree with the overall perception of your words. It is like any relationship, some work out some don't. In the end both parties have their own emotional versions to describe. The issue I find is that the "party" with the biggest supporting audience is always believed.

Enjoy your future as it is the only one you have.

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

I've got 3 weeks to go!

Yes, I too was convicted of category C images. Your solicitor was not being optimistic. I was sentenced to a 2 year community order, which involved a course run by probation with a total of 24 visits, no community payback, and court costs, which was downgraded to magistrates court levels, as it was acknowledged that the case did not merit being passed to a Crown Court.

On the basis of the sentencing guidelines, I think he set your expectation correctly (he'd have been bleedin' Nostradamus if he'd been mine), but judges are humans. They will read pre-sentencing reports differently and apply slightly different weight. That's why you can appeal a sentence if you think they got it wrong. I chose not to.

I never saw my SHPO before I was given it. It was a fait accompli. Reading this site, I later discovered that you are meant to be able to query the conditions as relevant, but I didn't. It effectively ended my career in IT, but a google search would have had pretty much the same effect, so I didn't fret about them.

I was perhaps luckier as I had legal aid. However, it wasn't granted until a month after the magistrates plea hearing. This meant my solicitors did no work until just a month before the Crown Court Pre-Trial Plea Hearing. I never saw the images I pleaded guilty to. I was convinced by my solicitor that if I pled not guilty then each one would be shown to the jurors and if they deemed a single image to be category 'C' I would be found guilty. This was a risk I wasn't willing to take, but I own that decision. No-one pressured me into it.

Unfortunately, I was known to local media. That had photos of me on file. They sent reporters. Even more unfortunately the prosecution "accidentally" read out the original arrest charges in open court. These had been dropped (because they weren't true) but were reported as fact in the local press. Yes, I could have asked them to print a correction, but my barrister told me to not bother, it would be "chip paper". I agree. It would have given them a reason to run a second article. The Streisand effect is an actual thing. The "wrong" articles are still online, but in the last 5 years only one person had found out and confronted me because of them.

However. I agree. NEVER EVER TRUST THE POLICE. They lie. They manipulate. One even suggested I illegally report my phone stolen and claim off insurance when I asked when I would get it back. (For those running a sweepstake, it was 38 months later).

Whilst they have been on courses, my opinion of PPOs is that they are amateurs trying to do something that at least a degree level of study is required for. Some are reasonable and others use "under colour of law" tactics to hide their inadequacies. I've felt that a lot of their interpretations are challengeable in court. Unfortunately that is the only remedy. If one wanted to breach you for not declaring an internet connected Freeplay TV despite it not being able able to surf websites or independently store images, they could. I'd hope a court would throw it out but who is going to take that risk. Report everything by email. Save the responses, preferably offline (print) as well.

My understanding about the risk interviews, is that they are not under caution. It's a tick in the box exercise. You can lie. You can also refuse to answer a question, but they will note this on file. I did in the first two years refuse to answer some and told them it was because they were irrelevant, but in the end I didn't care. If they get their jollies asking deeply personal question that have no legal standing then I guess everyone needs a hobby. I treated it as your GP asking "so how much do you actually drink?" A plausible answer is required, not the number of units to the correct decimal point. My actual answer is anything between 60 units a week and zero, depending on how many football matches and gigs I go to or whether it's my end of season dry month. Currently my weekly alcohol consumption is zero and has been for 3 weeks. It is, however, not representative. 60, 28 or zero units are all correct answers depending on when I am asked.

To be fair to my local station, I've never had a problem with notification and update visits. They've always been discrete, even when filling it out at the front desk. It could just be you've got a bunch of arseholes at yours. I wasn't aware of having a "designated" station. I was given a list of stations that accepted notification across the force region, which wasn't all of them. I guess each force runs their SOR scheme differently.

I have no complaints about my probation officer. This may have something to do with my local office was one of those which had real probation officers and hadn't been outsourced in the failed scheme. I actually looked forward to the meetings. I'm not going to dox myself by being too specific, but I know someone with a doctorate in a "related area" and I gave my PO a book she'd had published in the academic press based on her thesis (Just checked Amazon. It's £120 for the hardback which is the edition I gave her! It cost me £54 at the time.) I found my probation meetings very interesting and totally worthwhile. Other products are available.

I guess my only reason for posting this is that everyone's interactions with solicitors, courts, the police and probation will be different. In my case, I can only agree with your "Don't trust the police." The rest is subjective and an individual experience.

Best thing I did for my own piece of mind was to own my decisions. Picking over them again and again with hindsight is self-destructive. Yes, I discovered so much wrong with "the system" (too much to document here) but I got myself in this mess. No-one else.

Several years back I was convicted of one count of ‘making’ an indecent image of a child (for making read downloading). There were less than a hundred category C images on my computer and I fully accepted responsibility for my actions.
While I was on the register and still under a SHPO I would sometimes search for stories of people who had finished their sentences, trying to find out what they had been through and maybe what their life was like now, I could never find anything. The only written material I could find was from people still serving their sentences or still on SHPOs etc.

So for what it’s worth, this is my experience of the criminal justice system.

Solicitors:

1.
The solicitor I had on the day I was in court said that as my crime was at the bottom end of the scale I would be looking at a community order which would most likely consist of visits to probation and maybe some courses to address my offending. He said that I would not be getting any community service as this was for ‘scrotes’ as he called them. The magistrates sentence was thirty visits to probation and 250 hours of community service… so much for his prediction.

The police had requested a SHPO (more about this later) to run for five years while I was on the register and in it there was a ‘no contact with anyone under sixteen’ clause, this affected the work I was doing. The solicitor looked outraged by this and said ‘I’m going to challenge this, it wasn’t even a contact offence’. In court he made a simple request to have it removed which the magistrates denied.. so much for his outrage. 

From what I could tell, his being there or not would have made no difference to the outcome.

At the end of the proceedings he asked for the usual exorbitant fee and said that his colleague back in the office had wanted to charge me a lot more, (that was his colleague who had turned up late as the legal representative at my police interview and got a telling off from the police).

2.
During the thirteen months I had been waiting for my case to come to court, I had set up a business with my partner, one of the clients was a solicitor’s office. I had made sure to end my relationship with them before I went to court but I presumed that they would have found out about my case from the court listings or through talking with other solicitors in the area. Fast forward and about three years into my sentence I did some work for another client but was told afterwards that the payment would be made through the solicitor who had been our client. I told my partner that I suspected they wouldn’t pay us because they knew that if I began asking for the payment I would have to deal with them or deal with others to try to get the money back and that I wouldn’t want to risk being more visible. Sure enough, they didn’t pay us.

3.
A year before my SHPO ended my dad died. I was on medication and wasn’t allowed to drink and in fact I hadn’t had a drink for about three months. I was the one who organised my dad’s funeral and I had to deal with a lot of friction from other family members. I was quite upset and had a lot to drink at the wake and then drove my car. I got arrested for drink driving (first time ever). Even though I offered good mitigation I was given a two year ban (more about this later). A couple of months into my driving ban a member of probation assigned to me for the driving offence began picking on me over the first (sexual) offence (more about this later). I felt I had good grounds for complaint and possible compensation but I could NOT get a solicitor to represent me. I tried the one who first represented me in court and two others online who boast about how they tackle the police and probation etc. for unfair treatment but they wouldn’t help me. I am certain that my offence was the reason.

The Police:

At my police interview before I went to court, I admitted responsibility and when the recorder was switched off I said that off the record I would just like to say sorry to the officers for the fact they had to deal with things like this that I had caused. The senior officer said something like ‘well, that’ll go on the record’ and later as I was leaving she said that she thought I’d done well and acted honestly and that she would put a word in for me.. (sounds ridiculous and naïve now but I believed her and felt a bit more relieved). As I’ve already stated, when I got to court the police requested the SHPO with quite a few extra conditions and it was signed by that very same senior officer.

There was one PPU officer I had after I first received my sentence who I didn’t particularly like. He suggested I change my name and move area which I didn’t do, preferring to see if I could survive without that. I’d already established a new business in the area after losing my job thirteen months prior. As the date for court approached he called by and asked to take an updated photo of me. He said, and I quote ‘when the papers ask for a picture of you, this is the one I’ll give them’. Obviously I was thrown into a panic at that since I now supposed I would be in the papers. I burned the candle at both ends working, printing new leaflets, preparing to leaflet a different area about forty miles away and in between looking for somewhere to live in the new area. After the court date I continuously scanned the local papers for any photos of me. Eventually my offence came up as a small caption in the court files but that was it. When he came on one of his visits, he asked about all the activity in the house and I said that he had told me he would be giving my photo to the papers… ‘Oh no, he said that was just if they asked’!
On another occasion he started asking extremely personal questions about my partner’s sexuality, he said I didn’t have to answer if I didn’t want to but not wanting to appear to be obstructing things I felt obliged to answer but I feel he was overstepping the mark, I’m not sure that he had a right to do it.

Eventually I started to get other officers and the visits were less frequent. One officer visited several times to check my computer but of course there was never anything to see.. One day he turned up and said… ‘right I’d better have a look at your computer…. er actually, I won’t bother, I don’t think there’s anything there’. I was a bit uncomfortable with this and said, ‘No, check it if you want’. He hesitated and then said.. ‘No, I’ll leave it this time’. I found that very strange. What was worse was that about six months later two female officers turned up and asked to look at the computer. One of them asked me when was the last time someone had checked it, obviously the previous officer hadn’t checked it so I said ‘about ten months’… ‘About ten months???’ she exclaimed. ‘Oh sorry’ I said realizing that the other officer would be in trouble…’er no, I mean about six months’. Crazy! Having to cover for them because they can’t be bothered to do their jobs.

When I was arrested for the drink driving offence after my dad’s funeral the police had a field day. I was visibly upset and angry with them. They put the cuffs on me tightly and caused some nerve damage which thankfully has cleared up. They kept me in the cells long after I’d sobered up. After I’d been in the cells twelve hours I asked a female police officer who was outside the door how long people were normally held for drink driving, she said about six hours, I told her I’d been there twelve already. She said ‘right I’ll go sort this out’ She never came back. The desk officer must have told her that they’d decided to have a little fun at my expense based on my previous record. It was only after I told them I wanted to see a duty solicitor that I was let out. I had been in there seventeen hours!!

Some months later another couple of PPU officers came to visit as I was nearing the end of my sentence. They said that I must be feeling relieved and looking forward to better things but I asked them what I had to look forward to from them as if I ever got arrested for anything in the future I would expect to be treated unfairly. One officer said, ‘no, the police aren’t allowed to do that’ so I told him the story about being locked up for seventeen hours. He didn’t say anything in response, he just looked blankly at me.

The courts:

Just before my court date my solicitor had told me that it would be best to go and sign on the register which I did. For anyone who has to do this, you know how problematic it is. My designated police station was a big place with a large front desk area, you don’t really want to be stood with a group of other people when the duty officer asks you what you want. Anyway, a couple of weeks after sentencing I received a letter that told me that as soon as I got this letter I had to report to a different police station and register and that it had to be done before a certain date. That date had already passed. I went straight down to the other station and the desk officer after looking at the letter said in a loud voice ‘Sex offender eh?’….. He went off and then came back saying it was a mistake and that I wasn’t supposed to be at that station but the first one and that I was already on the system. So all that messing me about for nothing, courtesy of the courts.

When I was in court for drink driving, the magistrates instructed a court probation officer to take me to a back room and work out appropriate punishment. As they got up she asked ‘er sorry, what is it you want me to do?’ so they had to explain it all to her again, things didn’t get any better after that. She took around an hour to write out a short report that I guess should have been about twenty minutes. Half way through she made a mistake ruined it and had to start all over again. She couldn’t figure out the computer which kept slowing her down. She got the wrong file out (the one for the first offence) and said ‘Oh no, I can’t possibly do anything with this’ in shock.. I suggested she was looking at the wrong file. Back in court she read out her report describing me as unmarried. As I am married and she hadn’t asked my marital status I had to jump down from the stand as the magistrates went out to consider their verdict in order to correct her. ‘You should have told me’ was her response..

I’d decided to represent myself in court for drink driving as I had first-hand experience of the uselessness of the solicitor during my first conviction and I wasn’t prepared to throw money down the drain again. I prepared what I considered was strong mitigation. I had not had a drink for over three months prior to my arrest for drink driving as I had been told not to by my doctor due to medication I was taking. I had only lapsed at my dad’s wake because I had been living a stressful life for five years and his death was a bit too much. I also needed my car to visit clients in the business I had set up. Even with this the magistrates gave me a two year ban.


When I had completed the requirements of the community order for drink driving, the probation officer who started picking on me over the first offence said that I had only completed half the order as a pretext to bring me back into the office. I contacted the courts to clarify that I had completed the order but they wouldn’t help me, they just referred me back to probation. I then wrote to the community service hub manager, He had sent me a letter telling me that I had completed the order some time earlier, his letter also said to get in touch if I needed to ask anything but as I’m sure you can guess… there was no response from him, obviously he wasn’t prepared to help me either..

Probation:

I have no complaints about the first officer I saw after my initial conviction, I had thirty ARMS days to complete with him, it all went according to plan and he treated me decently. When I got my conviction for drink driving I had one meeting with a probation officer, she noted my previous conviction (which at that time I had less than a year left of the SHPO to complete) we went through some obligatory paperwork and I thought that would be the end of it. Two months later I was contacted by another very young probation officer who I found out was a replacement for the other officer who had now left, things took a very bad turn, she brought me in for a meeting and started grilling me obsessively about the sexual offense! Some time later I got a call from her saying that I would have to come in for monthly meetings! I knew that this was not standard practice and that I was being singled out. She told me very confidently that if I didn’t like it I could talk to her manager because she was supporting her actions. I would say in some ways that this period was the worst I've experienced and left me feeling very depressed. I kept detailed notes of what she was doing including two instances where she'd lied to me. One of those lies was that she told me I’d only completed half of the requirements of my community order when I had actually completed it entirely, with a letter to prove it. This was to give her an excuse to keep bringing me into the office.
I put together a formal complaint of over three thousand words detailing minutely everything that had been going on. I sent it to the regional manager and it was escalated to a higher level than a first complaint would ordinarily be. The harassment stopped straight away and I was telephoned and given a half-hearted apology by the probation officer involved. When the formal response to my complaint came back I wasn’t happy with it. I felt it misrepresented my arguments and let the probation officer off the hook with feeble excuses about how she hadn't realised things about my case. I made a point by point appeal against it which was then dealt with by someone very senior in the probation service. This senior officer called me to discuss my appeal. I quickly realised that I would get nowhere with it, for one thing the whole process is internal, it’s the probation service looking into itself basically. Secondly the officer asked me what kind of outcome I was looking for, I really didn’t know, the rogue probation officer had been demoted to the best of my knowledge. I was not able to chase probation for compensation as no solicitor was prepared to represent me. All that remained was for them to note that I felt they had misrepresented my arguments or not taken them seriously enough. The most I could have hoped for was ‘Yes, you were right’. That’s it. To add insult to injury, I found out that the probation officer that had caused the problem was a trainee and that she had been taken off training at her own request. This was who they had put in charge of my case!

After finishing both sentences what advice can I give about the criminal justice system?

Solicitors are ineffective shysters! After I was convicted of drink driving I went on a driving awareness course. There was a young quiet Pakistani lad on the course with me and he said he had enlisted the help of a solicitor during his drink driving trial, the solicitor’s fee was a whopping £1,300 and the lad still got the conviction he was expecting. If you can represent yourself do it, if only to keep money out of their greedy hands.
Don’t trust the police and to add to that, don’t trust the police. As someone once said ‘the police are not your friend’.
The courts and associated bodies are staffed by people who are incompetent and have zero concern for you once they have finished with you, don’t bother asking them for help.
The probation service is an inward looking organization that protects it’s corrupt members. There is a lot more of retribution than rehabilitation about them so be warned.


After having said all that, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I would say don’t expect help from anyone, if you can do anything yourself do it. After having lost nearly everything, I managed to turn a disaster into a reasonable success, maybe I’ll write about that at some point. All the best. P.