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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
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+xOrdinarily courts are not quick to award costs in SHPO variation/discharge cases - not least because they are "civil" hearings and not criminal ones. Generally, a court would only be expected to award costs where at least one of the following criteria were met: - The Applicant brought a 'hopeless' or 'abusive' variation application
- The Applicant acted unreasonably in making their application
- The Applicant failed to engage sufficiently, causing additional expense
- The Applicant failed to appear at a hearing upon being ordered to do so
The general principle is that a Judge should not award costs if the Applicant acted in 'good faith' and/or if the variation application was "reasonable", even if unsuccessful.
This does very much seem like a "scare" tactic from the Police - I wouldn't worry overly about this. Do make sure you respectfully highlight to the Judge at your application your opposition to costs being awarded.
Thanks Evan None of that applies to me. I will update everyone with the outcome of the hearing when it has occurred.
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Evan Davis
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Group: Forum Members
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Ordinarily courts are not quick to award costs in SHPO variation/discharge cases - not least because they are "civil" hearings and not criminal ones. Generally, a court would only be expected to award costs where at least one of the following criteria were met: - The Applicant brought a 'hopeless' or 'abusive' variation application
- The Applicant acted unreasonably in making their application
- The Applicant failed to engage sufficiently, causing additional expense
- The Applicant failed to appear at a hearing upon being ordered to do so
The general principle is that a Judge should not award costs if the Applicant acted in 'good faith' and/or if the variation application was "reasonable", even if unsuccessful.
This does very much seem like a "scare" tactic from the Police - I wouldn't worry overly about this. Do make sure you respectfully highlight to the Judge at your application your opposition to costs being awarded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All views, opinions & contributions are my own and do not represent the views of Unlock unless specifically stated.
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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 70,
Visits: 486
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck Another quick question on this. The police have said if I lose the discharge hearing they will apply to court to cover their costs. They have given me a cost schedule. Is this usual to happen? I don't think there allowed to do that, sounds like there just trying to intimidate you. You have every right to apply for a discharge anytime with out permission once past the 5 year mark, it is then the police's job to prove why they think your SHPO should remain. Their costs usually get covered by the tax payer anyway, so it seems off to me that they would make threats to recover the costs from you. Thank You I didn't think it sounded right. They are using a police barrister and are charging for their time to produce a bundle of evidence for the court and for them to attend court. Part of me thinks they are unsure about winning and are hoping I will cave in at this point. Hi Sorry for my slow reply. I have never had that mentioned to me and if they have written to you, I would ensure you keep that document safe as I believe that could be classed as intimidation tactics. I would also politely reply asking if they could provide the "law/Act or policy" that supports that statement. The only come back I have heard of (and I cant remember where) is that if you fail then they can reset the 5 years; but I think that is just to stop time wasters. If you have the supporting evidence for your discharge request then stand strong no matter what. On checking under CPR44 the respondent can apply to the court to recover their legal costs. There is a minimum notice period they have to give. The notice period they have given me was the minimal notice period possible. Whether they have intended to do this all along or they have only just decided it at the last minute I dont know. It has now been over 6 months since I applied for a discharge and this is the first mention of costs. Obviously the costs are only payable if the discharge is refused, I have a strong case but my main worry is getting that across in court. I have provided the court and police with written evidence to back up my case I just hope it gets read. They have also only just disclosed evidence and statements they have had for 6 months at the same time. I have asked for copies of these since of the start of November when I first knew they existed. I think a lot of the tactics used are normal for solicitors. Perhaps I was being a bit naive at the start of this and thinking that it was just me and my PPU involved in the hearing.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 1.8K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck Another quick question on this. The police have said if I lose the discharge hearing they will apply to court to cover their costs. They have given me a cost schedule. Is this usual to happen? I don't think there allowed to do that, sounds like there just trying to intimidate you. You have every right to apply for a discharge anytime with out permission once past the 5 year mark, it is then the police's job to prove why they think your SHPO should remain. Their costs usually get covered by the tax payer anyway, so it seems off to me that they would make threats to recover the costs from you. Thank You I didn't think it sounded right. They are using a police barrister and are charging for their time to produce a bundle of evidence for the court and for them to attend court. Part of me thinks they are unsure about winning and are hoping I will cave in at this point. Hi Sorry for my slow reply. I have never had that mentioned to me and if they have written to you, I would ensure you keep that document safe as I believe that could be classed as intimidation tactics. I would also politely reply asking if they could provide the "law/Act or policy" that supports that statement. The only come back I have heard of (and I cant remember where) is that if you fail then they can reset the 5 years; but I think that is just to stop time wasters. If you have the supporting evidence for your discharge request then stand strong no matter what.
Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.
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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 70,
Visits: 486
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck Another quick question on this. The police have said if I lose the discharge hearing they will apply to court to cover their costs. They have given me a cost schedule. Is this usual to happen? I don't think there allowed to do that, sounds like there just trying to intimidate you. You have every right to apply for a discharge anytime with out permission once past the 5 year mark, it is then the police's job to prove why they think your SHPO should remain. Their costs usually get covered by the tax payer anyway, so it seems off to me that they would make threats to recover the costs from you. Thank You I didn't think it sounded right. They are using a police barrister and are charging for their time to produce a bundle of evidence for the court and for them to attend court. Part of me thinks they are unsure about winning and are hoping I will cave in at this point.
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xDanx
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 413,
Visits: 12K
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck Another quick question on this. The police have said if I lose the discharge hearing they will apply to court to cover their costs. They have given me a cost schedule. Is this usual to happen? I don't think there allowed to do that, sounds like there just trying to intimidate you. You have every right to apply for a discharge anytime with out permission once past the 5 year mark, it is then the police's job to prove why they think your SHPO should remain. Their costs usually get covered by the tax payer anyway, so it seems off to me that they would make threats to recover the costs from you.
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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 70,
Visits: 486
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+x+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck Another quick question on this. The police have said if I lose the discharge hearing they will apply to court to cover their costs. They have given me a cost schedule. Is this usual to happen?
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 1.8K
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+x+x+x+xI have an internet SHPO and have applied to the court to have it discharged. I expected a hearing so that I could put across my arguments. The police disagree with my application but I feel their arguments are weak and that they have made a statement to the court which is factually correct but written in such a way to paint me in a bad light. For example they mention alerts that have occurred on my devices and have implied I am doing something wrong to cause these and therefore the SHPO and monitoring software needs to remain to monitor me. I have only been made aware of 2 of these alerts both of which were dismissed by my offender manager as not requiring any further action. They were trigged by a picture of my own children as a desktop background and an invoicing package that I use for work purposes. I am sure the other alerts must be false as well otherwise they would have taken action. Today the judge has refused the application saying a hearing is not required and as my offender manager has concerns he is refusing the application. Is it correct a judge can just dismiss without a hearing. He quoted CPR 31.5 (4) for him to be allowed to do it but I have looked at this and the next section CPR 31.5 (5) suggests he can't do this unless I have had a chance to make representations at a hearing. The whole reason I want to do this is so I can get my conviction spent and move on with my life. I know it is a battle if the police don't agree but I have changed so much since my conviction, I am no longer the same person I was back then. I am not a risk to the public and believe I can prove this. I thought this is what criteria they were looking for. Hi Hopefully you will find the attached of some use. I'm sure you will be able to format it to your style as some may of been lost in my removal of hopefully all my personal data. I'm sure you will get the approach I undertook but if questions just let me know. As my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? There does not appear to be much press interest. You could always ask for it to be heard in chambers, but unless it is a straight forward situation of the SHPO being for the wrong length of time, the judge probably won't agree to that. Hi I am afraid the perception of requesting a "hearing in chambers" is becoming invalid in many Courts. I included in my SOPO discharge request (2023) that it be heard in that manner and was informed that the "Courts" (forgot the term actually used) no longer allows that. I discussed it with the Courts administration and they basically assured me that unless it was relevant to a national paper front page story, the press does not report or even go to the hearing. This was proved to be the case. One word of advise if I may. Do go smartly dressed and appear confident in your manner. Every hearing I have done this and was never shown any interest by "photographers" : in fact the Court staff of the day and even the Judge thought I was a solicitor. I represented myself and they all asked me directly if the the "applicant" was going to appear. In also presents a good image to the Judge that you respect them and their Court. you have got this far so stay confident in your manner and your case. Good luck
Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------
This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.
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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 70,
Visits: 486
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+x+xAs my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? I can't recall any local reports of it, even had a wee look on some local papers websites out of interest and there's nothing. Unless you're a famous person or your crime was particularly egregious then I don't think there's must interest in reporting stuff like this. Not exciting and salacious enough for the papers I'd wager. Thanks I had a look as well and can find just one article from a few years ago about a discharge being refused. There is nothing else I can see so reporting is rare. I suspect I will be okay. Just don't want to come all this way with moving on with my life just for my local paper to print something which sets it all back. Probably worrying over nothing.
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 392,
Visits: 21K
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+xAs my hearing approaches the one thing I am worried about is the press. Searching for other SHPO discharge cases I can only find one single press article for a SHPO discharge. My original case got no press coverage thankfully. Does anyone known if the press are interested in these type of hearings? I can't recall any local reports of it, even had a wee look on some local papers websites out of interest and there's nothing. Unless you're a famous person or your crime was particularly egregious then I don't think there's must interest in reporting stuff like this. Not exciting and salacious enough for the papers I'd wager.
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