I believe that document you link to only applies to ACPO, and the release of information from the PNC in relation to police certificates (you have to obtain one of these if you are intending to emigrate to certain countries for instance).

The CRB process is different, and the guidelines you posted have been superseded by the CRB process and confirmed in unsuccessful challenges through the courts against the release of records (see Five Constables Case). There is a case coming up a November you may want to keep an eye out for. However, as a teacher, you will always be subjected to extensive scrutiny through the Enhanced CRB process. It's madness. Interestingly, your ACPO police certificate would most likely be clear (because of the stepdown process), so if you were to emigrate abroad, you would effectively be doing so with a clean slate! The system is broken.

There is also a really good synopsis of all that has been going on in this area on the Unlock website; it is the best (and only) I've managed to find on the internet.

Good point, I have to agree with you that people with certain convictions will always get a harder time. At the end what people think would be irrelevant if some day records could be either removed or never show up on record after a set period of time. Until then we must all fight to have the law changed to allow people with records a chance to start with a clean slate.

Peoples perceptions about SOME criminal convictions.

I don't want to turn into a Numan, but imagine it happened to be a sexual offence. You'd be met with the usual "Kill them", "Hang them" "Stone them" etc...

The way it stands now, and in my eyes for the foreseeable future, nothing is going to change.

In a lot of peoples eyes, you're deserving of every single hardship you get as result of your conviction. A life sentence it seems for most crimes.

Read the very last comment!

People like that are the very reason liberty for anyone (ex-offender or no) is under threat!

Ye gods!

Sorry to say if you have a record, however small, your life will change forever. There is no such thing as a "Spent" conviction. Its there until you are 100 years old. The Civil Liberties website lists over two pages of careers no longer open to you. This now includes anyone working with private, personal data, so that rules out even office work. Many private and public sector organisations are retrospectively asking staff to agree to CRB checks, so you need to hope the HR Director has the gift of "common sense". This is particularly galling when you hear more and more about people's supposedly "private" data (like "spent" convictions) being disclosed, by public and private sector employees either for money or for "a laugh". The employee with a spent conviction would be very unlikely to take a risk like this. Its the ones who haven't been caught that are the guilty ones.

There are hundreds of thousands of people with spent convictions from decades ago, now suddenly forced to revel all to their employer. These can include people convicted of things which are no longer a crime eg: shoplifting. Only persistent shoplifters get a record now.

Apparently only 1 in 4 crimes is solved. So 3 in 4 get away with it. They are allowed to continue with their lives, and could end up in the professions from which you have been barred. They are rewarded for getting away with it while you are penalised until you die for being caught.

Apparently 3,000 new criminals are created every day. Approx 20% of the adult UK population has a record. Official figures differ because they exclude people over 55 for some reason. Soon over half the population will have a record. In what way is that an attractive proposition for a country looking to invest in the UK? Once you realise that you will be trapped into low-paid, semi-skilled work is it any surprise that people re-offend? Do the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade not realise their taxes are supporting people who cannot get work because of their spent convictions? Do the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade not mind the fact that their doctors, teachers, neighbours and colleagues have committed offences, but managed to avoid being caught? For example, can you even begin to imagine how many million people have taken recreational drugs since 1950? An absolutely tiny percentage of them were caught and subsequently had their lives ruined not by drugs but by the "state". The vast majority grew up, got bored and moved on with their lives, finishing their degrees, moving into the "professions", getting married, buying a house and having a successful career. The same can be said for teenage shoplifters, or those who committed youthful "pranks" like stealing a car. My advice - just don't get caught!

Britain compares extremely badly to other western nations in its draconian refusal to give people a real second chance. There is no opportunity, as exists in other countries, to ask, after a period of time and demonstration of your "good character", for your record to be permanently erased. Your spent conviction, even if it is minor, could stop you visiting USA and yet your crime could be totally wiped out if you were a USA citizen and you had the right to appeal to the Sheriff of your State.

What you have to ask yourself is are the government really so stupid and out-of-touch, or are they doing this for a reason? It started under the Labour gov, but the Con/Libs have done nothing to change or improve it. Is it so we can sell our security systems abroad? Is it some form of "control"? To keep us all scared in case we loose our jobs? Or is it because the Crime industry (police, social services, legal, surveillance and IT systems, Orgs like NACRO and Probation Services, prison services etc) is a multi-million dollar business that depends on crime being committed?

Clearly none of this is working in terms of a deterrent. People do stupid things regardless. Its not until its too late that you realise how your life has been wrecked by the state. I am disgusted and ashamed to be part of Britain in the 21st century.

This is my first post here although I pop in from time to time to browse.

I felt quite depressed reading what Captain Sensible wrote above. It was an excellent post and basically revealed my thoughts and feeling about the system. I have been convicted on four different occasions from the time I was aged between 21 and I think around 27 for basically getting into fights and drunk and disorderly. All alcohol related. I did follow a degree course almost 20 years ago and then went on to do teacher's training. Yes, they allowed me onto the course with convictions. However, getting a job afterwards was a different matter. I've done all sorts of jobs from teaching abroad, factory work, and different types of driving. At the moment I'm out of work. I came here yesterday to see if there were any developments in the world of Crime and Punishment and was a little heartened to see on of the posts mention the "Step Down Model". I searched and found this:

https://www.unlock.org.uk/userfiles/file/employment/Retention%20of%20records%20on%20the%20PNC.pdf

Is there any chance of this being implemented? Where are they at now with regards to this?

I'm 47 years old now and I really want to do a job I'll be interested in doing. Not sure where to look. Any ideas of some good resources or case studies of people with convictions who've made a career somehow. Looking back over life.....I should have trained as a builder or a plumber or similar. But it's easy with 20/20 vision.

Anyway, this is an excellent site and keep up the good work.

"Everyone is guilty of something or has something to conceal. All one has to do is look hard enough to find what it is." - Solzhenitsyn

One way to remove the issues around punishments extending beyond ROA times would be to do away with them altogether and have sentencing take care of the time period required to show rehabilitation. At the moment it seems to be a sentencing judge does not consider the ROA as the second tier of punishment/rehabilitation after court ordered requirements have been met. The sentencing and ROA are not linked up. I guess it's because it's the law and the state both doing the punishing whereas it should be just the law. In this way someone could have a supervision order for five years and then it's all over. No declarations and a clean basic check. The sentence reflects the severity of the crime and the length of time for deemed rehabilitation. Thus only those sentences to life imprisonment would be affected by the ROA for life. I assume this is the way it was before 1974 anyway.

As a slight aside, it appears LASPO started life as LASRO with the R for Rehabilitation which is now Punishment.

"In fact, the central piece of the Coalition’s criminal justice legislation, the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill (LASPO), was originally due to actually include the word Rehabilitation (i.e. LASRO) but No. 10 decided that they needed the ‘hang ’em, flog ’em’ faction in the Tory Party (not to mention in the Media) on board in order to get it passed through Parliament"

www.freedompress.org.uk/news/2012/08/15/a-brave-new-outsourced-world/

Nice to hear from you again Captain and wish that what you are saying wasn't true. Another one from the old skool who's been through it, seen it in action and despairs that we can 'fight' or complain to our MP's and they'll do something about all this. The Progressives Captain, they're winning and it's all in our best interests - from cradle to the grave! Remember?