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Can probation unilaterally disclose a criminal record to an employer


Can probation unilaterally disclose a criminal record to an employer

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philfer
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I don't know where to turn.

I have a conviction for an internet downloading offence. 

I got a job as an accountant in an office where there are no children and where the employer does not require a DBS check (as it is not a relevant job).  I have provided evidence to probation showing that the internet access is controlled and shown them a screenprint of the message showing what happens if you try to access a website that is not in their policy.  I have also shown them the IT security policy which explains that the IT department actively monitors staff internet access and activity.  I feel that this is enough to show there is no risk.

Probation have now said that they would still want disclosure and if I don't disclose they will.

My previous probation officer had no problem with my employment and was happy that it was part of my rehabilitation.  She went off sick and my new probation officer is pushing this issue.

My question is whether probation are legally allowed to disclose without my permission or any request from the employer?

Also I was wondering if you has any contacts at law firms in London who would be able to advise me on this issue.

The other thing probation are aware of is that in the past I had issues with suicide and self harm.  For the past 2.5 years I have been moving forward positively and rebuilding my life and my previous probation officer was very supportive of this.  This change and development has set me back three years and is very negatively affecting my mental health.

Any help would be very very very gratefully received
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philfer - 10 Oct 19 7:26 PM
I don't know where to turn.

I have a conviction for an internet downloading offence. 

I got a job as an accountant in an office where there are no children and where the employer does not require a DBS check (as it is not a relevant job).  I have provided evidence to probation showing that the internet access is controlled and shown them a screenprint of the message showing what happens if you try to access a website that is not in their policy.  I have also shown them the IT security policy which explains that the IT department actively monitors staff internet access and activity.  I feel that this is enough to show there is no risk.

Probation have now said that they would still want disclosure and if I don't disclose they will.

My previous probation officer had no problem with my employment and was happy that it was part of my rehabilitation.  She went off sick and my new probation officer is pushing this issue.

My question is whether probation are legally allowed to disclose without my permission or any request from the employer?

Also I was wondering if you has any contacts at law firms in London who would be able to advise me on this issue.

The other thing probation are aware of is that in the past I had issues with suicide and self harm.  For the past 2.5 years I have been moving forward positively and rebuilding my life and my previous probation officer was very supportive of this.  This change and development has set me back three years and is very negatively affecting my mental health.

Any help would be very very very gratefully received

My advice would be to speak to your PPU officer...and a solicitor.

I know this isn't going to help but speaking from my own experience, any time i've disclosed  i've either been refused employment or got fired. I've been lucky to manage to get work that doesn't involve any computers and is actually in a dangerous environment  (construction) and PPU and my probation officers (when i was on probation) were happy with that, but it wasn't always like that.

It is going to be more difficult to maintain a job role where access to a computer and the internet is part of the job, irrespective of the IT safeguards in place by the company. But that all depends on the powers that be.

When i was dealing with probation, initially i was advised to disclose at every opportunity (even when not asked about unspent convictions) all that ended up doing was nurture a deep seated feeling of apathy and yes my mental health suffered as well, these were all low key blue collar jobs not public facing and no real risk of any children being present.

It was an awful time, giving out my home address and contact details to people i didn't know whilst disclosing my offense.

I've always found it very difficult when you are faced with someone new , be it PPU officer or probation officer, because you have to basically start back from square 1 again, going over your life story etc. Personally i have been very lucky with my probation officers and they have all wanted to see me progress, but it still makes it difficult when you have to build up a relationship again.

I wonder if maybe you could consider becoming a private accountant? it is a profession like mine in some ways where you could work for a big company or be self employed, at least if you work for yourself you can't fire yourself!

Today, being able to work is absolutely vital to keeping me in a stable and positive mindset, i think if you work in a very low to zero risk environment with regards to the nature of our kind of offense then i think probation can do more harm than good when they decide to take a moral stance which could cost the individual the very thing that is giving them stability and is a vital part of the foundation of living an offense free life. I think sometimes by trying to reduce or eliminate their perceived risks, they can be counter productive and actually cause more risk further down the line, if the loss of employment will lead to a poorer mental state and potentially bad coping strategies again.

If you said 'they want to disclose to my employer who is a toy shop' or 'my employer is a holiday park where families take their kids' then i would agree with a decision to disclose, but i think most people with our kind of offense wouldn't be so stupid as to even entertain the idea of going for that kind of employment unless they were severely entrenched. I think your probation officers perceived risk is solely the access you have to computers and the internet, my argument would be we live in the 21st century where everything is connected and the internet is now very much a part of daily life, a necessity even so whether you are at work or not, being able to access the internet is not difficult

I'm no expert but i think risk is always down to the individuals mind set, irrespective of external/physical things. I think if an individual was hell bent on committing another offense they would find a way, hopefully you want to live the rest of your life offense free and i think when a person has genuinely made that promise to themselves, nothing anyone can do will make you go back to making those bad choices.








Mr W
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philfer - 10 Oct 19 7:26 PM
I don't know where to turn.

I have a conviction for an internet downloading offence. 

I got a job as an accountant in an office where there are no children and where the employer does not require a DBS check (as it is not a relevant job).  I have provided evidence to probation showing that the internet access is controlled and shown them a screenprint of the message showing what happens if you try to access a website that is not in their policy.  I have also shown them the IT security policy which explains that the IT department actively monitors staff internet access and activity.  I feel that this is enough to show there is no risk.

Probation have now said that they would still want disclosure and if I don't disclose they will.

My previous probation officer had no problem with my employment and was happy that it was part of my rehabilitation.  She went off sick and my new probation officer is pushing this issue.

My question is whether probation are legally allowed to disclose without my permission or any request from the employer?

Also I was wondering if you has any contacts at law firms in London who would be able to advise me on this issue.

The other thing probation are aware of is that in the past I had issues with suicide and self harm.  For the past 2.5 years I have been moving forward positively and rebuilding my life and my previous probation officer was very supportive of this.  This change and development has set me back three years and is very negatively affecting my mental health.

Any help would be very very very gratefully received

Welcome to the forum, I totally understand the frustration behind someone new making completely opposite decisions to their predecessor, you're not alone there.
It's always a problem when decisions that affect your life are based on the opinions of those who may or may not be competent at their job.

Assuming your ppu officer was okay with you taking the job in the first place, from my experience, they have more power than probation? I might be wrong there but that was the case in my situations when they disagreed and my ppu was constantly overruling my probation officer. So with that in mind, I wonder if you can get your ppu to fight your battle for you?

I'd also ask your probation officer directly: "Do you feel comfortable with overruling your colleague?" And ask them to explain why - especially when their experience will probably know what disclosure will lead to. Do keep us, and the lovely Unlock people, informed as to how you get on as I'm sure they will also be interested in this case.




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Mr W - 11 Oct 19 6:40 PM
philfer - 10 Oct 19 7:26 PM
I don't know where to turn.

I have a conviction for an internet downloading offence. 

I got a job as an accountant in an office where there are no children and where the employer does not require a DBS check (as it is not a relevant job).  I have provided evidence to probation showing that the internet access is controlled and shown them a screenprint of the message showing what happens if you try to access a website that is not in their policy.  I have also shown them the IT security policy which explains that the IT department actively monitors staff internet access and activity.  I feel that this is enough to show there is no risk.

Probation have now said that they would still want disclosure and if I don't disclose they will.

My previous probation officer had no problem with my employment and was happy that it was part of my rehabilitation.  She went off sick and my new probation officer is pushing this issue.

My question is whether probation are legally allowed to disclose without my permission or any request from the employer?

Also I was wondering if you has any contacts at law firms in London who would be able to advise me on this issue.

The other thing probation are aware of is that in the past I had issues with suicide and self harm.  For the past 2.5 years I have been moving forward positively and rebuilding my life and my previous probation officer was very supportive of this.  This change and development has set me back three years and is very negatively affecting my mental health.

Any help would be very very very gratefully received

Welcome to the forum, I totally understand the frustration behind someone new making completely opposite decisions to their predecessor, you're not alone there.
It's always a problem when decisions that affect your life are based on the opinions of those who may or may not be competent at their job.

Assuming your ppu officer was okay with you taking the job in the first place, from my experience, they have more power than probation? I might be wrong there but that was the case in my situations when they disagreed and my ppu was constantly overruling my probation officer. So with that in mind, I wonder if you can get your ppu to fight your battle for you?

I'd also ask your probation officer directly: "Do you feel comfortable with overruling your colleague?" And ask them to explain why - especially when their experience will probably know what disclosure will lead to. Do keep us, and the lovely Unlock people, informed as to how you get on as I'm sure they will also be interested in this case.



The thing about PPU and probation is not always clear. I get the feeling that while you're on probation, the police are prepared to take a back seat and let them get on with it - probation can be pro-active, but the police can only really be reactive. I'm thinking of last night's Crime and Punishment, where the police effectively washed their hands of a situation and left probation to it, even though they had seemed keen to get the guy put away. On the other hand, I doubt the police would object to someone else taking a harder line than them. The bottom line is they need a good working relationship with probation more than they need to get on with you.

Even so, you shouldn't leave it there. Do have a chat with your current probation officer. Unlock has some useful info and advice about dealing with probation here. You could also refer to this document - although it's a police document, it sums the situation up quite well.
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Same problem . New PPU officer moved worlds to get me to volunary disclose my conviction relating to an offence some 45 years ago. Step daughter had a baby. In honesty , I told PPU of this but New fresh out of training school said I should disclose or they will. I resisted . Threats came about going to other family members and neighbours to establish where step daughter lives. Myself and wife were bullied .  Eventually had to write a letter.  Judge :- Not peadophile . Not likely to re offend . No victim impact statement .No social services involvement in our lives , No probation contact after sentence.  I Pleaded guilty Got suspended sentence. PPU visits in the last 5 years about 10. The ppu officer was going to win at any price. Result = Fear. I wan`t lucky enough to be born to a good family in nice home on sea. I learned , Wife`s family I moved in with some 25 years ago along with my 2 young sons. Her children University educated doing OK . My 2 very pleasant young men who love me and thart is reciprocated. Last visit to sign the register , her supervisor took me off the Sopo part of the sentence. A rebuke I believe to her handling of me as a PPU. Does not help me at all in moving forward. But I have not developed at any time at all a victim mentality. Only got forward gears. ABUSE takes many forms and at the end of the day , I see no difference to my crime and her assertion . Both wreck lives , You can learn. You can also hope that one day that she too will be blindsided by an unexpected event. Will she learn ? Will she be sorry for the summary executions of peoples lives to promote an ideal ? I can hope. All I can say is take ownership of your past. The police at the end of the day just prosecuted my childhood. This is what the truth project will read

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philfer - 10 Oct 19 7:26 PM
I don't know where to turn.

I have a conviction for an internet downloading offence. 

I got a job as an accountant in an office where there are no children and where the employer does not require a DBS check (as it is not a relevant job).  I have provided evidence to probation showing that the internet access is controlled and shown them a screenprint of the message showing what happens if you try to access a website that is not in their policy.  I have also shown them the IT security policy which explains that the IT department actively monitors staff internet access and activity.  I feel that this is enough to show there is no risk.

Probation have now said that they would still want disclosure and if I don't disclose they will.

My previous probation officer had no problem with my employment and was happy that it was part of my rehabilitation.  She went off sick and my new probation officer is pushing this issue.

My question is whether probation are legally allowed to disclose without my permission or any request from the employer?

Also I was wondering if you has any contacts at law firms in London who would be able to advise me on this issue.

The other thing probation are aware of is that in the past I had issues with suicide and self harm.  For the past 2.5 years I have been moving forward positively and rebuilding my life and my previous probation officer was very supportive of this.  This change and development has set me back three years and is very negatively affecting my mental health.

Any help would be very very very gratefully received

Hi,
I feel for you in so many ways.

I am not sure how much longer you are with Probation but whilst I was with them they always stated I must disclose. In one interview I was told that they were not interested in me disclosing the actual details but I said I had to under the direction of my Probation Officer who would contact them if I didn't or to check I had. They said sorry but as they were trying to help me they couldn't risk it becoming knowledge to all by calls from probation officers and my interview was stopped.

 I was forced (yes I say forced) to play their scenario games which I stated that in my experience as an ex Human resources consultant were not in line with current business processes. To no avail.

In regard to PPU when I informed them I was considering applying for a role to show prospective house buyers round homes (no disclosure was required) he stated he would contact the possible employer as children may be involved!!

You must remember they are trying to protect themselves more than protect the public.

I have applied to over 2000 vacancies ranging from my profession to volunteer work and been rejected mostly without discussion because of my sex offence. My old probation officer has told me to retire and he stated 'as long as you can pay your bills from my military pension then you should be happy.'

My offence, I accepted an offer from a female sex work who approached me, and subsequently blackmailed me. 

Good luck and keep positive and always follow your instinct as other opinions will only confuse you.

Remember the hardest decision is usually the correct one.
GO


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