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SEX OFFENDERS REGISTER - BEING ADDED


SEX OFFENDERS REGISTER - BEING ADDED

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Tim
Tim
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Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
punter99
punter99
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Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I'm not an expert on the law, but I would expect that whoever looks at the police application would do a basic risk assessment, balancing your need to travel 'without hindrance' against the need for public protection. I would also expect them to put public protection ahead of your needs, as they do with everybody who is on the register. I wish you the best of luck in finding a loophole in the law, but you would be better off reading the many forum posts about travelling abroad when on the register, to prepare you for the inevitable.

JASB
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Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Hi

I wish you luck but on your comparing sentencing between countries I speak from experience on what is forecasted and the Judge's actual decision. I was told by probation and pre-sentencing PPU (I was on bail for 2 years prior to sentencing so got visits) that I would get a 30 mth supervisory order or at worse 30 mth custodial. I got 4 years due to the public interested in other sex offence crimes undertaken at the time.
Remember you are in the UK now and under all the negativity that brings from society.
Good luck and would recommend an excellent solicitor I am now using to remove my SOPO and eventually SOR requirement. If you would like his details just ask.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Yankee
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Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I'm really curious what type of sexual offence can be viewed so seriously in the US and some leniently in the UK?  I understand that the UK was committed to reducing prison numbers and community sentences were one of the mechanisms but CS vs 42 months custodial is an enormous difference???

Did the US manage to include a secondary offence that pushed the tariff so high but that part would not be illegal under UK law???
Yankee
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punter99 - 9 Jan 20 11:26 AM
Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I'm not an expert on the law, but I would expect that whoever looks at the police application would do a basic risk assessment, balancing your need to travel 'without hindrance' against the need for public protection. I would also expect them to put public protection ahead of your needs, as they do with everybody who is on the register. I wish you the best of luck in finding a loophole in the law, but you would be better off reading the many forum posts about travelling abroad when on the register, to prepare you for the inevitable.

Tim - I concur fully. If the Police win their case, the most important thing is for you to ensure you end up with a low risk assessment. The only significant hindrance to travel (US excepted) is if the police issue an Interpol notice when you notify your travel. As it takes effort for them to do that and needs sign off after a risk review that it is proportionate, the notices are typically only issued for high risk offenders.

With regard travelling at short notice, the police typically tell you they need to be notified a minimum of 7 days in advance (as this is the guideline in their operating procedures). Legally that is not true. The legislation actually specifies ‘no less than 7 days’ notice’ where the offender knows the information required to be disclosed. When the information is not known, the legislation stipulates ‘not less than 12 hours’.

Bottom line - unless short notice for you means less than 12 hours and you are deemed high risk, you can work with the system. 
punter99
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Yankee - 10 Jan 20 3:28 PM
Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I'm really curious what type of sexual offence can be viewed so seriously in the US and some leniently in the UK?  I understand that the UK was committed to reducing prison numbers and community sentences were one of the mechanisms but CS vs 42 months custodial is an enormous difference???

Did the US manage to include a secondary offence that pushed the tariff so high but that part would not be illegal under UK law???

Depends on the state where the offence was committed, as much as the offence itself. For example in Arizona people convicted of indecent image offences have been handed huge sentences. In one case a man got 200 years for possessing 20 images because Arizona law dictates a mandatory sentence of 10 years for each image. The same offence would have received a community sentence in the UK. In other comments above, I note a reference to public negativity in the UK. When compared to the notification requirements, residence restrictions and sentencing guidelines that apply in the US, Britain almost looks like a civilised country!

Tim
Tim
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Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Dear All,
Many thanks for your replies and the advice of experience contained in them all, I appreciate it. One question was regarding the disparity in sentencing. The US has the highest incarceration rates and the longest sentencing in the entire world, even accounting for those considered 3rd world countries (Economist Oct 2018).The US Federal system works almost 100% on plea deals and by such their conviction success rate is also almost 100%. This means that government prosecutors always go for the highest punishments they can inflict. Prosecutor is an elected office and high conviction rates mean public affirmation of their choice plus re-election when the time comes. So when it comes to charges, the prosecutor will demand a whole list of 'counts' that he/she thinks might stick, even loosely. Unfair but that's the system as the 10's of 1000's incarcerated will affirm. In demanding these counts, once a period of shock and horror has ensued,  an offer will be made that allows you some perceived relief that if you plead guilty to one or more counts, chosen by the prosecution, they will not oppose the others. In my case I had 2 counts, one with a mandatory 5 year minimum, the other with an advisory 5 year minimum but the judge is allowed discretion both up and down. Because of the relatively minor nature of my offence and please don't take this as an indication of my disregard for its nature, I was allowed to plead guilty to 'possession' but not 'reception'. You might argue that if you possess then you must have received and vis-versa but the Federal government sees it as 2 separate things, both with their own sentencing guidelines. Reception carries the mandatory sentence so I opted to plead guilty to the lesser charge and hoped (on advice) the judge would show leniency. That happened and hence 42 months. I know by UK standards, that seems harsh but as you've read in other posts, that was relatively light by comparison. Incidentally, those choosing to plead not guilty in a Federal court generally receive maximum sentences beyond the guidelines, hence the desire to choose the lesser options, regardless of circumstance or mitigation. I experienced that with many of my fellow inmates, regardless of crime.
One major difference I've experienced between incarceration in the US and also UK is that in the US, sex offenders are placed in general population unless the crime demands a separate location. Here in the UK, you are separated from general population immediately, even in prison transport which only adds to the hysteria and malice directed at this type of offence. Ignorance reigns supreme and is only enhanced by prison staff themselves along with the baying of politicians and press stirring things up for readership and public perception goals. While prison in the US was very much as portrayed on tv, so long as you make efforts to get along and avoid trouble, you'll be okay. Facilities for inmates there are far less than in UK prisons. Here in the UK you're instantly branded as a pervert or 'nonce' (I'd never heard that word until arrival here). Images of witch trials, ducking stools and ponds surrounded by ruff necked individuals in pointed hats springs to mind.
Anyway, onto my situation and it seems my addition to the register is almost certain but the question as to how long, is now my focus. As one contributor put it, the system is workable within means and that's where I'm at. Thanks to all again and good luck.
Tim
Tim
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Yankee - 10 Jan 20 3:41 PM
punter99 - 9 Jan 20 11:26 AM
Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I'm not an expert on the law, but I would expect that whoever looks at the police application would do a basic risk assessment, balancing your need to travel 'without hindrance' against the need for public protection. I would also expect them to put public protection ahead of your needs, as they do with everybody who is on the register. I wish you the best of luck in finding a loophole in the law, but you would be better off reading the many forum posts about travelling abroad when on the register, to prepare you for the inevitable.

Tim - I concur fully. If the Police win their case, the most important thing is for you to ensure you end up with a low risk assessment. The only significant hindrance to travel (US excepted) is if the police issue an Interpol notice when you notify your travel. As it takes effort for them to do that and needs sign off after a risk review that it is proportionate, the notices are typically only issued for high risk offenders.

With regard travelling at short notice, the police typically tell you they need to be notified a minimum of 7 days in advance (as this is the guideline in their operating procedures). Legally that is not true. The legislation actually specifies ‘no less than 7 days’ notice’ where the offender knows the information required to be disclosed. When the information is not known, the legislation stipulates ‘not less than 12 hours’.

Bottom line - unless short notice for you means less than 12 hours and you are deemed high risk, you can work with the system. 

Thanks Punter 99 for your reply and the info was all very useful to me for the future. I was told just hours ago that the police will seek costs if they're successful which seems highly likely. So for them applying for my addition to the SOR, it is going to cost me around £1300 for the priviledge.
I know the old saying 'no-one said life was fair' but really? This is beyond a joke, especially as it's at their inception.
punter99
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Tim - 15 Jan 20 9:31 AM
Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Dear All,
Many thanks for your replies and the advice of experience contained in them all, I appreciate it. One question was regarding the disparity in sentencing. The US has the highest incarceration rates and the longest sentencing in the entire world, even accounting for those considered 3rd world countries (Economist Oct 2018).The US Federal system works almost 100% on plea deals and by such their conviction success rate is also almost 100%. This means that government prosecutors always go for the highest punishments they can inflict. Prosecutor is an elected office and high conviction rates mean public affirmation of their choice plus re-election when the time comes. So when it comes to charges, the prosecutor will demand a whole list of 'counts' that he/she thinks might stick, even loosely. Unfair but that's the system as the 10's of 1000's incarcerated will affirm. In demanding these counts, once a period of shock and horror has ensued,  an offer will be made that allows you some perceived relief that if you plead guilty to one or more counts, chosen by the prosecution, they will not oppose the others. In my case I had 2 counts, one with a mandatory 5 year minimum, the other with an advisory 5 year minimum but the judge is allowed discretion both up and down. Because of the relatively minor nature of my offence and please don't take this as an indication of my disregard for its nature, I was allowed to plead guilty to 'possession' but not 'reception'. You might argue that if you possess then you must have received and vis-versa but the Federal government sees it as 2 separate things, both with their own sentencing guidelines. Reception carries the mandatory sentence so I opted to plead guilty to the lesser charge and hoped (on advice) the judge would show leniency. That happened and hence 42 months. I know by UK standards, that seems harsh but as you've read in other posts, that was relatively light by comparison. Incidentally, those choosing to plead not guilty in a Federal court generally receive maximum sentences beyond the guidelines, hence the desire to choose the lesser options, regardless of circumstance or mitigation. I experienced that with many of my fellow inmates, regardless of crime.
One major difference I've experienced between incarceration in the US and also UK is that in the US, sex offenders are placed in general population unless the crime demands a separate location. Here in the UK, you are separated from general population immediately, even in prison transport which only adds to the hysteria and malice directed at this type of offence. Ignorance reigns supreme and is only enhanced by prison staff themselves along with the baying of politicians and press stirring things up for readership and public perception goals. While prison in the US was very much as portrayed on tv, so long as you make efforts to get along and avoid trouble, you'll be okay. Facilities for inmates there are far less than in UK prisons. Here in the UK you're instantly branded as a pervert or 'nonce' (I'd never heard that word until arrival here). Images of witch trials, ducking stools and ponds surrounded by ruff necked individuals in pointed hats springs to mind.
Anyway, onto my situation and it seems my addition to the register is almost certain but the question as to how long, is now my focus. As one contributor put it, the system is workable within means and that's where I'm at. Thanks to all again and good luck.

Just as an aside to this. I was reading about some of the US state laws governing RSO recently. Not all of these made it to the statute book, some were just proposals. Nevertheless, it's a reminder that, behind the perfect white smiles and 'Have a Nice Day' rhetoric, there are some really cruel and vindictive people over there.

RSO receive a visit from Probation every Halloween. They are not allowed to take part in Halloween activities, including driving their own kids to and from Halloween events. (Nevada)

A proposal that RSO be forced to have a pink or green licence plate on their cars, so they could be identified (Ohio). Echoing the pink triangle and yellow star from Nazi Germany.

Marking the driving licences of all RSOs with a special RSO stamp.

RSOs forced to display details of their offence on the side of their house.

RSO forced to wear a T-shirt detailing their offences. (Florida)

Local residents can put their email address on a list, to receive a message each time an RSO moves into their area.

Terrifying. I wouldn't want to visit the USA ever again, even I was allowed to.

JASB
JASB
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punter99 - 20 Jan 20 11:39 AM
Tim - 15 Jan 20 9:31 AM
Tim - 9 Jan 20 10:25 AM
Hi everyone and I'm wondering if theres anyone out there can offer me some advice.
I was convicted of a sex offence in the US, sentenced to 42 months and served my sentence in Federal prison. Part way through, I was able to transfer back to the UK under the Treaty Transfer scheme and finished the remainder of sentence here. I've been told by those in authority that a similar offence in the UK would have gained me a Commuinity Service Order.
A provision of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 is that it is not a legal requirement for an offender convicted abroad to register on the SOR in the UK, however the UK police may apply for that. The provisions of the 2003 Sex Offences Act do cover those convicted abroad but do not supercede or amend the statements of the1984 Act
The Police have now made that application and I am trying to fight registration as I need to travel without hindrance worldwide at short notice.
Anyone know of similar situations or can offer advice? I do have a legal team on this but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Dear All,
Many thanks for your replies and the advice of experience contained in them all, I appreciate it. One question was regarding the disparity in sentencing. The US has the highest incarceration rates and the longest sentencing in the entire world, even accounting for those considered 3rd world countries (Economist Oct 2018).The US Federal system works almost 100% on plea deals and by such their conviction success rate is also almost 100%. This means that government prosecutors always go for the highest punishments they can inflict. Prosecutor is an elected office and high conviction rates mean public affirmation of their choice plus re-election when the time comes. So when it comes to charges, the prosecutor will demand a whole list of 'counts' that he/she thinks might stick, even loosely. Unfair but that's the system as the 10's of 1000's incarcerated will affirm. In demanding these counts, once a period of shock and horror has ensued,  an offer will be made that allows you some perceived relief that if you plead guilty to one or more counts, chosen by the prosecution, they will not oppose the others. In my case I had 2 counts, one with a mandatory 5 year minimum, the other with an advisory 5 year minimum but the judge is allowed discretion both up and down. Because of the relatively minor nature of my offence and please don't take this as an indication of my disregard for its nature, I was allowed to plead guilty to 'possession' but not 'reception'. You might argue that if you possess then you must have received and vis-versa but the Federal government sees it as 2 separate things, both with their own sentencing guidelines. Reception carries the mandatory sentence so I opted to plead guilty to the lesser charge and hoped (on advice) the judge would show leniency. That happened and hence 42 months. I know by UK standards, that seems harsh but as you've read in other posts, that was relatively light by comparison. Incidentally, those choosing to plead not guilty in a Federal court generally receive maximum sentences beyond the guidelines, hence the desire to choose the lesser options, regardless of circumstance or mitigation. I experienced that with many of my fellow inmates, regardless of crime.
One major difference I've experienced between incarceration in the US and also UK is that in the US, sex offenders are placed in general population unless the crime demands a separate location. Here in the UK, you are separated from general population immediately, even in prison transport which only adds to the hysteria and malice directed at this type of offence. Ignorance reigns supreme and is only enhanced by prison staff themselves along with the baying of politicians and press stirring things up for readership and public perception goals. While prison in the US was very much as portrayed on tv, so long as you make efforts to get along and avoid trouble, you'll be okay. Facilities for inmates there are far less than in UK prisons. Here in the UK you're instantly branded as a pervert or 'nonce' (I'd never heard that word until arrival here). Images of witch trials, ducking stools and ponds surrounded by ruff necked individuals in pointed hats springs to mind.
Anyway, onto my situation and it seems my addition to the register is almost certain but the question as to how long, is now my focus. As one contributor put it, the system is workable within means and that's where I'm at. Thanks to all again and good luck.

Just as an aside to this. I was reading about some of the US state laws governing RSO recently. Not all of these made it to the statute book, some were just proposals. Nevertheless, it's a reminder that, behind the perfect white smiles and 'Have a Nice Day' rhetoric, there are some really cruel and vindictive people over there.

RSO receive a visit from Probation every Halloween. They are not allowed to take part in Halloween activities, including driving their own kids to and from Halloween events. (Nevada)

A proposal that RSO be forced to have a pink or green licence plate on their cars, so they could be identified (Ohio). Echoing the pink triangle and yellow star from Nazi Germany.

Marking the driving licences of all RSOs with a special RSO stamp.

RSOs forced to display details of their offence on the side of their house.

RSO forced to wear a T-shirt detailing their offences. (Florida)

Local residents can put their email address on a list, to receive a message each time an RSO moves into their area.

Terrifying. I wouldn't want to visit the USA ever again, even I was allowed to.

Hi
If 1% of what you say is true it is so terrifying I would start to think they will just form/build  islands or towns to host sex offenders. That way they can organise and charge for hunting trips as that is what they do to animals. Ooops sorry I forgot animal hunting is seen as distasteful and sorry for saying "all" animals are dangerous.

(written by an EX SEX OFFENDER)




Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
GO


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