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Mr W
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+x+x+x+xI agree with Ben. I was sacked by Amazon from a distribution centre when my DBS check came back and the local Tesco warehouse rescinded their job offer when I declared at interview as required. On the plus side, the local Job Centre Plus stopped asking me in for the bi-weekly Universal Credit meetings when I declared it to my interviewer! I've cashed in a private pension (I'm over 55) to take me to the end of the SRO/SHPO notification period at which point a basic check will come back as zero, but that option isn't open to all. Hi, I've had similar issues, however last year I was offered a position in a shop, and a position in a coffee shop. However my offender manager said I couldn't take them as I could come into contact with Children... My offence was 17 x indecent images of children.... However.... This year she said that I could apply for positions in shops and cafes on the condition there was CCTV. So in the space of a year the PPU who monitor me has changed Just picking up on other employment issues you raised elsewhere. I can't think why an employer would need to know what category of image someone was looking at, or the quantity. They may be trying to work out whether it was just a one-off thing or more of an obsession, for that person. When it comes to how you feel about the offence now, the purpose of the question is to give the candidate an opportunity to say that they have learned their lesson and they have become a reformed character. It's a chance to sell yourself, by saying you will work even harder now, to prove to everyone, that you have changed. You can then use this as your unique selling point, to set yourself apart, from all the other job applicants. Of course, that won't guarantee that you get the job. As for medical or psych evaluations, the employer is presumably interested in things like, is this person going to be taking a lot of time off sick, are they emotionally stable and can I rely on them, basically do they represent a good, long term investment, for my business. That question about offences, that Khafka mentions, is poorly worded and inaccurate, since paedophilia is not an offence. But, what do you expect, when the media keeps talking all time time about people being "convicted paedophiles", rather than convicted sex offenders. It's deliberately misleading. I would write to the employer's HR dept. and tell them that. When it comes to what type of offences they list, it's strange that they only pick out certain offences, but that might depend on the type of job, or more likely on the company being scared about it's reputation. For example, a theft or fraud offence would be something an employer would be concerned about, if the job involved handling money. If the job involved dealing with the public, they might be concerned about violent offences and if the job involved kids, they would be concerned about sexual offences. With all of these offences, companies are also terrified about public perceptions. They think that if they hire certain types of offender, their customers will be so angry about it, that it will cost them business. For what it's worth though, although ex-offenders face the most appalling discrimination, in the job market, they are by no means the only people that employers discriminate against. Disabled people, anyone with a physical or mental health condition, anyone over the age of 45 and anyone with a significant gap in their employment history, will all struggle to get work too. It was a basic retail-based company chain. They have various outlets ranging from food to DIY. They all have the same application process. I'm obviously not getting hired by them any time soon so I might actually send an email to them, not sure to what end as they won't change anything so mainly for the banter, I guess? Thoughts? Anyone want to chip in with comments and suggestions to add? The thing about emails is they can just delete anything they don't want to respond to. If you've given up hope on them then go all out and if you can speak to someone from recruitment still as a 'hopeful applicant' on the phone and - in a nice way - push them for answers. Tough Qs like: "Out of those on the list, which crimes are acceptable in your recruitment process?" "How much of an impact do the categories of crimes have on the rest of the application?" "When was the last time someone with a conviction was successful in your recruitment process?" I'd be interested to hear what they have to say for themselves.
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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J J
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+x+x+x+xUp until August last year i worked for the same company for close to ten years, when i got the job i was not asked about any unspent convictions, as i was fresh out of prison PPU and probation were ok with the fact i did not disclose my offence (Sex offence). During those 10 years i was promoted a number of time to make net positions and to other offices that the firm ran. When i was promoted again in July 2019 and and given a new department to manage, a member of staff that did not get the job did some background digging and found out all about me, after they went to the board of directors with the information, and the threat that they would make it public if i did not leave, i was in not choice but to resign and leave a job and profession i loved. Sad state not only have i been unemployed since that person told everyone anyway. PPU advice was to just leave it and move on. That is devastating. I'm sorry to hear that. The fact there are no repercussions for what that person did leaves a huge question mark. I've just read this ..... Shocking, i'd have at least written to my MP (Done it in the past). Have you used the google right to be forgotten https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/legal-removal-request?complaint_type=rtbf&hl=en&rd=1 Was that response for me or Simon? If it was for me, yes, I've submitted that Google form and short answer is, as long as you're unspent, they're not taking anything down because the information "is still relevant in relation to the purposes of data processing" (quote from email response) which is slightly 'holier-than-thou' considering it's a private company that runs a website at the end of the day and its sheer existence is hindering mine (and countless others') chance to move on. If anyone has more luck (while still unspent) I'd love to hear about it. Hmm be interested to know what the ICO think of that.... You're right doesn't sound good
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J J
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What work are people successful at getting? Every job I apply for asks for convictions....?
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khafka
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+x+x+x+x+xI agree with Ben. I was sacked by Amazon from a distribution centre when my DBS check came back and the local Tesco warehouse rescinded their job offer when I declared at interview as required. On the plus side, the local Job Centre Plus stopped asking me in for the bi-weekly Universal Credit meetings when I declared it to my interviewer! I've cashed in a private pension (I'm over 55) to take me to the end of the SRO/SHPO notification period at which point a basic check will come back as zero, but that option isn't open to all. Hi, I've had similar issues, however last year I was offered a position in a shop, and a position in a coffee shop. However my offender manager said I couldn't take them as I could come into contact with Children... My offence was 17 x indecent images of children.... However.... This year she said that I could apply for positions in shops and cafes on the condition there was CCTV. So in the space of a year the PPU who monitor me has changed Just picking up on other employment issues you raised elsewhere. I can't think why an employer would need to know what category of image someone was looking at, or the quantity. They may be trying to work out whether it was just a one-off thing or more of an obsession, for that person. When it comes to how you feel about the offence now, the purpose of the question is to give the candidate an opportunity to say that they have learned their lesson and they have become a reformed character. It's a chance to sell yourself, by saying you will work even harder now, to prove to everyone, that you have changed. You can then use this as your unique selling point, to set yourself apart, from all the other job applicants. Of course, that won't guarantee that you get the job. As for medical or psych evaluations, the employer is presumably interested in things like, is this person going to be taking a lot of time off sick, are they emotionally stable and can I rely on them, basically do they represent a good, long term investment, for my business. That question about offences, that Khafka mentions, is poorly worded and inaccurate, since paedophilia is not an offence. But, what do you expect, when the media keeps talking all time time about people being "convicted paedophiles", rather than convicted sex offenders. It's deliberately misleading. I would write to the employer's HR dept. and tell them that. When it comes to what type of offences they list, it's strange that they only pick out certain offences, but that might depend on the type of job, or more likely on the company being scared about it's reputation. For example, a theft or fraud offence would be something an employer would be concerned about, if the job involved handling money. If the job involved dealing with the public, they might be concerned about violent offences and if the job involved kids, they would be concerned about sexual offences. With all of these offences, companies are also terrified about public perceptions. They think that if they hire certain types of offender, their customers will be so angry about it, that it will cost them business. For what it's worth though, although ex-offenders face the most appalling discrimination, in the job market, they are by no means the only people that employers discriminate against. Disabled people, anyone with a physical or mental health condition, anyone over the age of 45 and anyone with a significant gap in their employment history, will all struggle to get work too. It was a basic retail-based company chain. They have various outlets ranging from food to DIY. They all have the same application process. I'm obviously not getting hired by them any time soon so I might actually send an email to them, not sure to what end as they won't change anything so mainly for the banter, I guess? Thoughts? Anyone want to chip in with comments and suggestions to add? The thing about emails is they can just delete anything they don't want to respond to. If you've given up hope on them then go all out and if you can speak to someone from recruitment still as a 'hopeful applicant' on the phone and - in a nice way - push them for answers. Tough Qs like: "Out of those on the list, which crimes are acceptable in your recruitment process?" "How much of an impact do the categories of crimes have on the rest of the application?" "When was the last time someone with a conviction was successful in your recruitment process?" I'd be interested to hear what they have to say for themselves. Call my cynical but I imagine it'd be something like this: "Out of those on the list, which crimes are acceptable in your recruitment process?" - We don't discriminate against anyone in our recruitment process - Unless you've got a conviction, or you're too old, or too young."How much of an impact do the categories of crimes have on the rest of the application?" - Crimes don't have an impact on our recruitment policy. We recruit the #BESTPEOPLE on their #VALUES to join our #DIVERSEWORKFORCE and #FAMILY - We disregard any application that states you have a conviction unless it was something super minor like shoplifting from 20 years ago.
"When was the last time someone with a conviction was successful in your recruitment process?" - We don't really have statistics for that and we wouldn't be able to tell you such information due to confidentiality - We haven't knowingly hired anyone with a conviction but some might have slipped through the net at some point
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Hola
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+xWhat work are people successful at getting? Every job I apply for asks for convictions....? One good way is to work for yourself if you can, or to be honest just say no - unless you are going for jobs that require DBS clearance how would they find out ? Obviously the risk is that if they do subsequently find out you would probably be fired, but maybe the risk would be worth taking I'm now clear of PO etc but her advice was only say if you're asked ( which is not the same I know, just fyi)
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Was
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+x - unless you are going for jobs that require DBS clearance how would they find out ? Because they can make it a condition of employment that you consent to a basic DBS check e.g. Amazon. On the other hand I suspect that Tesco wouldn't have followed it up if I'd lied at interview.
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Mr W
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI agree with Ben. I was sacked by Amazon from a distribution centre when my DBS check came back and the local Tesco warehouse rescinded their job offer when I declared at interview as required. On the plus side, the local Job Centre Plus stopped asking me in for the bi-weekly Universal Credit meetings when I declared it to my interviewer! I've cashed in a private pension (I'm over 55) to take me to the end of the SRO/SHPO notification period at which point a basic check will come back as zero, but that option isn't open to all. Hi, I've had similar issues, however last year I was offered a position in a shop, and a position in a coffee shop. However my offender manager said I couldn't take them as I could come into contact with Children... My offence was 17 x indecent images of children.... However.... This year she said that I could apply for positions in shops and cafes on the condition there was CCTV. So in the space of a year the PPU who monitor me has changed Just picking up on other employment issues you raised elsewhere. I can't think why an employer would need to know what category of image someone was looking at, or the quantity. They may be trying to work out whether it was just a one-off thing or more of an obsession, for that person. When it comes to how you feel about the offence now, the purpose of the question is to give the candidate an opportunity to say that they have learned their lesson and they have become a reformed character. It's a chance to sell yourself, by saying you will work even harder now, to prove to everyone, that you have changed. You can then use this as your unique selling point, to set yourself apart, from all the other job applicants. Of course, that won't guarantee that you get the job. As for medical or psych evaluations, the employer is presumably interested in things like, is this person going to be taking a lot of time off sick, are they emotionally stable and can I rely on them, basically do they represent a good, long term investment, for my business. That question about offences, that Khafka mentions, is poorly worded and inaccurate, since paedophilia is not an offence. But, what do you expect, when the media keeps talking all time time about people being "convicted paedophiles", rather than convicted sex offenders. It's deliberately misleading. I would write to the employer's HR dept. and tell them that. When it comes to what type of offences they list, it's strange that they only pick out certain offences, but that might depend on the type of job, or more likely on the company being scared about it's reputation. For example, a theft or fraud offence would be something an employer would be concerned about, if the job involved handling money. If the job involved dealing with the public, they might be concerned about violent offences and if the job involved kids, they would be concerned about sexual offences. With all of these offences, companies are also terrified about public perceptions. They think that if they hire certain types of offender, their customers will be so angry about it, that it will cost them business. For what it's worth though, although ex-offenders face the most appalling discrimination, in the job market, they are by no means the only people that employers discriminate against. Disabled people, anyone with a physical or mental health condition, anyone over the age of 45 and anyone with a significant gap in their employment history, will all struggle to get work too. It was a basic retail-based company chain. They have various outlets ranging from food to DIY. They all have the same application process. I'm obviously not getting hired by them any time soon so I might actually send an email to them, not sure to what end as they won't change anything so mainly for the banter, I guess? Thoughts? Anyone want to chip in with comments and suggestions to add? The thing about emails is they can just delete anything they don't want to respond to. If you've given up hope on them then go all out and if you can speak to someone from recruitment still as a 'hopeful applicant' on the phone and - in a nice way - push them for answers. Tough Qs like: "Out of those on the list, which crimes are acceptable in your recruitment process?" "How much of an impact do the categories of crimes have on the rest of the application?" "When was the last time someone with a conviction was successful in your recruitment process?" I'd be interested to hear what they have to say for themselves. Call my cynical but I imagine it'd be something like this: "Out of those on the list, which crimes are acceptable in your recruitment process?" - We don't discriminate against anyone in our recruitment process - Unless you've got a conviction, or you're too old, or too young."How much of an impact do the categories of crimes have on the rest of the application?" - Crimes don't have an impact on our recruitment policy. We recruit the #BESTPEOPLE on their #VALUES to join our #DIVERSEWORKFORCE and #FAMILY - We disregard any application that states you have a conviction unless it was something super minor like shoplifting from 20 years ago.
"When was the last time someone with a conviction was successful in your recruitment process?" - We don't really have statistics for that and we wouldn't be able to tell you such information due to confidentiality - We haven't knowingly hired anyone with a conviction but some might have slipped through the net at some point Haha, true enough, but 1) You never know what they'll *actually say* you might be surprised and 2) Even if it goes nowhere it might just get them to THINK a little, so it wouldn't be a complete waste which is why I prefixed it with "if you've given up hope anyway" - the least we can do in our circumstances is to try and make people think differently about their shocking and discriminatory application process one nudge at a time. Just an idea 
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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JASB
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HiThe main purpose of a recruitment agency is to: " earn money by removing the effort and hassle of asking people questions who may not be qualified/suitable for a role" on behalf of a business looking for an employee
Readers of my past posts know I have applied for over 2000 roles since my leaving the "holiday" camp back in 2014. In brief I have had offers, but yes rescinded after my declaration.I am ex military (23 years) and since leaving been split between perm and contractor roles with 'blue chip' companies as an IT / HR consultant. I was co-founder in setting and building a software testing company - still going in the USA but I have been removed from history with them since my offence. Most roles I was heavily involved with recruitment and setting up the processes / guidelines based on the Companies policies.I say all this not to impress but to emphasis that no matter your previous career, qualifications, experience a conviction can punish you more than the Courts do.!- REMEMBER you do not have to declare unless explicitly asked the question, every PO will tell you a different message so just decide yourself on what scenario requires you to comply.
- More than likely you have finished your punishment and are an EX-OFFENDER! Remember that, you have rehabilitated yourself. Use any or all self control techniques you know or research some.
- Read about the role and business (if possible) to understand if their policy or working environment would cause disclosure. If you think it obviously does do not bother applying as this will only dint your confidence.
- there is a high possibility the recruiter you are talking to initially (unless a sole entity business) will be a newbie who is just researching CV's to gain experience and (more importantly) save a lot of hassle for the actual recruiter who talks to the hiring manager!
- This fact is important as that person will be worried about not impressing their boss and so moving on to a more interesting role that pays commission. They will say kind words to you and ask questions there is no need to ask as they follow a bullet pointed script.
- Hint, if asked about convictions at this stage do not admit to having them or say "NO", just consider doing some of the following:
- ask "why do they need to know?" If they say it is their policy then ask "what records are kept by them about any details you provide and how secure will they be and kept for?"
- inform them that you are in agreement with the Government's policy going through Parliament about banning the "box" for roles that do not require DBS checks. In regard to SC clearance don't let this worry you. I have found if you have the skills for these roles your chances of interview are high. The hiring manager will have to put a case forward to explain why they want someone with a conviction but if they like you and have the time you could be lucky. I applied twice for BAE and the manager was willing but he did not have the time as the role need to be filled with a couple of days.
- inform them there is not a legal requirement to inform the recruiter AS you are very willing to discuss this sort of subject with the actual Hiring Manager at a face to face interview.
- the majority of recruiting businesses play a numbers game as they are one business of many feeding a certain amount of CV's to the HR department of the actual hiring business. This means they want to find candidates who have the skills and least baggage to make them more interesting to the actual hiring business. This means someone with a conviction causes extra admin and can cast a shadow on the recruitment business as they will be seen as looking at low level candidates.
Over time you will get a feeling when you start talking to the recruiter on how experienced they are, and what you can ask of them or how they will respond if you do declare. If they are pompous and demanding there is a high possibility they will reject you so have fun with them. Practice asking questions on how they handle confidential data, why do they need to know certain things.
a recruiter will ask many questions because they are trying to build a profile of you for their database. This info helps when they do a "keyword" search and their marketing people say they have xx million candidates looking for work.... PR Bulls*&^%$$£In the end this is all bulls*&^% as the main priority for a recruiting agency is to try to reduce the risk of failure to provide a candidate. Will someone hire you? You have to think yes. You can think this way because you will spend writing a script on how you will talk to the recruiter. You will spend time training yourself and writing possible questions you maybe asked and the answers you will give. This is not instant as nothing worthwhile is! Believe in yourself and do not listen to old fa%$s like me as no matter our experience, we may not have the right answer for you no matter how much we wish you success
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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Hola
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+x+x - unless you are going for jobs that require DBS clearance how would they find out ? Because they can make it a condition of employment that you consent to a basic DBS check e.g. Amazon. On the other hand I suspect that Tesco wouldn't have followed it up if I'd lied at interview. Exactly research if they do DBS for every role, and if not don't disclose ? ... ... ...
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Mr W
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I thought I'd ressurect this thread instead of starting a new one. A new report from Prison Reform Trust - and the lovely people at Unlock - has some very interesting potential positives around employment. There's a lot to get your teeth into but I did a little song and dance** when I got to the recommendations. Government should:
2. Review the punitive effect of Sexual Harm Prevention Orders (SHPOs) and SexualOffences Prevention Orders (SOPOs) in preventing convictions from becoming spent.
Hurrah! Get it reviewed and get it scrapped!
Interesting that the orders are being referred to as punitive too. If they are meant as punishment rather than 'safeguarding' then surely much more specific legislation/guidelines are needed, especially when it comes to challenging them. (This is kind of mentioned in point 18 below).
A couple of others which stood out:
The New Futures Network (NFN) should:
8. Create a workstream for employment opportunities for people convicted of sexual offences, recognising the challenges the group and employers face
I love a good workstream. I'd assume many of us here would start on a path which meant we didn't have to live in fear and get back to meaningful employment. Crack on NFN.
Others:
18. The National Probation Service and the College of Policing should develop guidance for probation and police to increase their awareness of the impact of disclosure of a sexual conviction on employment prospects. This would help practitioners make proportionate decisions about disclosing information to employers, balancing the risk of harm with the rehabilitation needs of those they are supervising. .
The fact this, or lack of this, is affecting our lives and thousands of others is probably why have so many gripes with the systems which drive us insane, especially with such an imbalance of power.
If you spot anything else, do share!
** - I did not sing nor dance, more of a slight widening of the eyes and an 'ooh, finally...'
===== Fighting or Accepting - its difficult to know which is right and when.
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