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Travelling to the EU after 1 January 2021


Travelling to the EU after 1 January 2021

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AB2014
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Yankee - 28 Oct 20 1:13 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Debbie,

I think the post (and the media comments) are slightly misleading. My understanding is that the rules for EU citizens entering the UK will be the same as those from outside the EU.
They are not quite as draconian as presented and there is one important qualifier, namely that rehabilitation periods that will be considered. Over 4 years custodial = banned. Between 1 year and 4 years custodial = only if less than 10 years from end of sentence. Less than 1 year custodial = only if less than 5 years from end of sentence. So for anyone with less than 4 years custodial at least there is a point in time when they become eligible again (subject to passing all the other requirements).

My personal view (shared in other threads), is that the EU is very unlikely to change the ETIAS rules for a single country (i.e the UK). My bigger concern if there is no agreement is that people who have travelled to the EU in the last few years find their data is still on the Schengen Information System and this, somehow, gets used by borer officials to decline entry and there will no longer be a legal right under freedom of movement.





According to the gov.uk website here, anyone who has been sentenced to 12 months or more will be banned. Anyone sentenced to less than 12 months or who has been convicted in the last 12 months might be allowed in, on a case-by-case basis. As you say, the EU is unlikely to change the ETIAS rules, but they might remove the UK's visa-free status. I realise that the revenue from UK tourists makes that unlikely, but they could always use the threat as a bargaining chip....

Once we lose access to the SIS, all information input by the UK should be deleted, as they will have no way of knowing whether it is out-of-date, and their own laws prevent them from processing inaccurate information. Of course, any SIS alerts may well be replaced by Interpol green notices. There's still the Common Travel Area with the Republic of Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man if you're desperate to travel outside the UK.

=========================================================

As Chris Stacey said: Although its not formally part of the sentence that is handed down in court, the criminal record that someone comes away with effectively becomes a second sentence, which can have a long-lasting, if not lifelong, impact.

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Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Debbie,

I think the post (and the media comments) are slightly misleading. My understanding is that the rules for EU citizens entering the UK will be the same as those from outside the EU.
They are not quite as draconian as presented and there is one important qualifier, namely that rehabilitation periods that will be considered. Over 4 years custodial = banned. Between 1 year and 4 years custodial = only if less than 10 years from end of sentence. Less than 1 year custodial = only if less than 5 years from end of sentence. So for anyone with less than 4 years custodial at least there is a point in time when they become eligible again (subject to passing all the other requirements).

My personal view (shared in other threads), is that the EU is very unlikely to change the ETIAS rules for a single country (i.e the UK). My bigger concern if there is no agreement is that people who have travelled to the EU in the last few years find their data is still on the Schengen Information System and this, somehow, gets used by borer officials to decline entry and there will no longer be a legal right under freedom of movement.





JASB
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AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 2:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 2:09 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:53 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 1:39 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

Hi
We both must be glued to the keyboard as we are slowly distilling the context of the discussion.
Agree on the onward travel because of the reasons we are both aware of.
Police stop you traveling? I agree with your use of the word "unlikely" but on the other hand, we cannot be certain due to the individuality of the actions taken by the individual PPU's . We will see.
Can't stop you entering the country of your citizenship? I would fully expect they cannot do that under international law; however what happens if the EU takes the same approach as the UK does over individuals coming back from Syria conflict; the EU (Ireland) decides to remove the citizenship; which they can do as it is a dual citizenship and so have a safe country to live in - UK!

Just raised the question as it has many consequences we hope the authorities either ignore or protect us from.



I believe the police lost the power to stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago. Now they use Interpol green notices to achieve the same result, but if there's no green notice in place, the destination won't know. Even the College of Policing don't mention any powers to stop travel.

Turning to your other point about removal of citizenship, I sincerely hope you have never fought against the UK or any of its allies as an unlawful combatant. If you haven't, then you're probably OK. In prison, I knew an Aussie lifer who had been born in the UK and had dual citizenship. He has already established that he would be allowed to return to Australia after release. I've not heard of any citizenship being revoked just because someone has been convicted of an offence, however salacious the media coverage.

Hi
"stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago"
Not doubting you but for sake of discussion you notified them you was going to SE Asia would they let you go - irrespective of the destination countries rules? 
Citizenship, for clarity I am ex military 23 yrs - and I was providing an example of the UK removing UK citizenship. 
Again I was considering scenarios that could possibly be created IF the EU did a tit for tat ruling, so historical events are not relevant, sorry Smile However combining both these sentences content together, you can envisage any good law maker using precedence to create a new policy.

Just have to wait and see what reality brings.  

I've read on this forum and in Disqus comments on Unlock's website about people who notified and were allowed to travel to SE Asia. The problem was the green notice waiting for them on arrival. So, they can't stop you leaving the UK, but in most cases they can effectively prevent you entering the destination country with a UK passport. In your case, as a Republic of Ireland passport-holder, that wouldn't apply to travel to Ireland. Beyond that, for a citizen of the Republic, I wouldn't know.

Hi
As always if you have seen examples I would except that but I have yet to hear of a successful application but then obviously I do not have a buzzfeed on the subject. Smile 

We agree about countries saying no so that is put to one side.
However we have both read on here about PPU's stopping travel so I would suggest it depends on the PPU.
After my admitting my offence and being placed on the SOR and waiting for sentencing, I was going to return to SE Asia for a short while. Even though I had just returned back from a 3 month trip a month before, the Met Police took me to Court to have me either put on remand or confiscate my passport. This was after I had notified them and then kept enquiring every day how I was to keep them informed on my movements whilst away. This positive action was taken / presented to the Judge as my attempt to do a "runner".
The Judge took my passport but actually thanked me for my honesty in my actions.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
JGUK68
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will the SIS alerts still be issued? and, if not, what is the alternative? interpol notification?

regardless the above, do you know how long a SIS alert stays on the system?
AB2014
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JASB - 26 Oct 20 2:09 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:53 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 1:39 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

Hi
We both must be glued to the keyboard as we are slowly distilling the context of the discussion.
Agree on the onward travel because of the reasons we are both aware of.
Police stop you traveling? I agree with your use of the word "unlikely" but on the other hand, we cannot be certain due to the individuality of the actions taken by the individual PPU's . We will see.
Can't stop you entering the country of your citizenship? I would fully expect they cannot do that under international law; however what happens if the EU takes the same approach as the UK does over individuals coming back from Syria conflict; the EU (Ireland) decides to remove the citizenship; which they can do as it is a dual citizenship and so have a safe country to live in - UK!

Just raised the question as it has many consequences we hope the authorities either ignore or protect us from.



I believe the police lost the power to stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago. Now they use Interpol green notices to achieve the same result, but if there's no green notice in place, the destination won't know. Even the College of Policing don't mention any powers to stop travel.

Turning to your other point about removal of citizenship, I sincerely hope you have never fought against the UK or any of its allies as an unlawful combatant. If you haven't, then you're probably OK. In prison, I knew an Aussie lifer who had been born in the UK and had dual citizenship. He has already established that he would be allowed to return to Australia after release. I've not heard of any citizenship being revoked just because someone has been convicted of an offence, however salacious the media coverage.

Hi
"stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago"
Not doubting you but for sake of discussion you notified them you was going to SE Asia would they let you go - irrespective of the destination countries rules? 
Citizenship, for clarity I am ex military 23 yrs - and I was providing an example of the UK removing UK citizenship. 
Again I was considering scenarios that could possibly be created IF the EU did a tit for tat ruling, so historical events are not relevant, sorry Smile However combining both these sentences content together, you can envisage any good law maker using precedence to create a new policy.

Just have to wait and see what reality brings.  

I've read on this forum and in Disqus comments on Unlock's website about people who notified and were allowed to travel to SE Asia. The problem was the green notice waiting for them on arrival. So, they can't stop you leaving the UK, but in most cases they can effectively prevent you entering the destination country with a UK passport. In your case, as a Republic of Ireland passport-holder, that wouldn't apply to travel to Ireland. Beyond that, for a citizen of the Republic, I wouldn't know.

=========================================================

As Chris Stacey said: Although its not formally part of the sentence that is handed down in court, the criminal record that someone comes away with effectively becomes a second sentence, which can have a long-lasting, if not lifelong, impact.

Edited
8 Months Ago by AB2014
JASB
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AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:53 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 1:39 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

Hi
We both must be glued to the keyboard as we are slowly distilling the context of the discussion.
Agree on the onward travel because of the reasons we are both aware of.
Police stop you traveling? I agree with your use of the word "unlikely" but on the other hand, we cannot be certain due to the individuality of the actions taken by the individual PPU's . We will see.
Can't stop you entering the country of your citizenship? I would fully expect they cannot do that under international law; however what happens if the EU takes the same approach as the UK does over individuals coming back from Syria conflict; the EU (Ireland) decides to remove the citizenship; which they can do as it is a dual citizenship and so have a safe country to live in - UK!

Just raised the question as it has many consequences we hope the authorities either ignore or protect us from.



I believe the police lost the power to stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago. Now they use Interpol green notices to achieve the same result, but if there's no green notice in place, the destination won't know. Even the College of Policing don't mention any powers to stop travel.

Turning to your other point about removal of citizenship, I sincerely hope you have never fought against the UK or any of its allies as an unlawful combatant. If you haven't, then you're probably OK. In prison, I knew an Aussie lifer who had been born in the UK and had dual citizenship. He has already established that he would be allowed to return to Australia after release. I've not heard of any citizenship being revoked just because someone has been convicted of an offence, however salacious the media coverage.

Hi
"stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago"
Not doubting you but for sake of discussion you notified them you was going to SE Asia would they let you go - irrespective of the destination countries rules? 
Citizenship, for clarity I am ex military 23 yrs - and I was providing an example of the UK removing UK citizenship. 
Again I was considering scenarios that could possibly be created IF the EU did a tit for tat ruling, so historical events are not relevant, sorry Smile However combining both these sentences content together, you can envisage any good law maker using precedence to create a new policy.

Just have to wait and see what reality brings.  

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
AB2014
AB2014
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JASB - 26 Oct 20 1:39 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

Hi
We both must be glued to the keyboard as we are slowly distilling the context of the discussion.
Agree on the onward travel because of the reasons we are both aware of.
Police stop you traveling? I agree with your use of the word "unlikely" but on the other hand, we cannot be certain due to the individuality of the actions taken by the individual PPU's . We will see.
Can't stop you entering the country of your citizenship? I would fully expect they cannot do that under international law; however what happens if the EU takes the same approach as the UK does over individuals coming back from Syria conflict; the EU (Ireland) decides to remove the citizenship; which they can do as it is a dual citizenship and so have a safe country to live in - UK!

Just raised the question as it has many consequences we hope the authorities either ignore or protect us from.



I believe the police lost the power to stop RSOs travelling abroad some time ago. Now they use Interpol green notices to achieve the same result, but if there's no green notice in place, the destination won't know. Even the College of Policing don't mention any powers to stop travel.

Turning to your other point about removal of citizenship, I sincerely hope you have never fought against the UK or any of its allies as an unlawful combatant. If you haven't, then you're probably OK. In prison, I knew an Aussie lifer who had been born in the UK and had dual citizenship. He has already established that he would be allowed to return to Australia after release. I've not heard of any citizenship being revoked just because someone has been convicted of an offence, however salacious the media coverage.

=========================================================

As Chris Stacey said: Although its not formally part of the sentence that is handed down in court, the criminal record that someone comes away with effectively becomes a second sentence, which can have a long-lasting, if not lifelong, impact.

JASB
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AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 1:21 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

Hi
We both must be glued to the keyboard as we are slowly distilling the context of the discussion.
Agree on the onward travel because of the reasons we are both aware of.
Police stop you traveling? I agree with your use of the word "unlikely" but on the other hand, we cannot be certain due to the individuality of the actions taken by the individual PPU's . We will see.
Can't stop you entering the country of your citizenship? I would fully expect they cannot do that under international law; however what happens if the EU takes the same approach as the UK does over individuals coming back from Syria conflict; the EU (Ireland) decides to remove the citizenship; which they can do as it is a dual citizenship and so have a safe country to live in - UK!

Just raised the question as it has many consequences we hope the authorities either ignore or protect us from.




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JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:54 PM
AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

It is unlikely that the police would stop you travelling - they are more interested in whether and what to notify to the destination country. If you travel to the Republic, they may well notify them of your conviction, but as a citizen they can't stop you entering the country, and if they know already it shouldn't be a problem. After that, it's up to you where you go, as you would have freedom of movement within the EU.

=========================================================

As Chris Stacey said: Although its not formally part of the sentence that is handed down in court, the criminal record that someone comes away with effectively becomes a second sentence, which can have a long-lasting, if not lifelong, impact.

JASB
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AB2014 - 26 Oct 20 12:29 PM
JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

Hi
I have considered your options in the past when thinking about future travels but as always many thanks. It is the new suggestions over Brexit that raise more questions than solutions to my aims.
The interesting "snag" to the above and what my question was aimed at is that, if the EU do a tic for tat (just guessing worse scenario)  then the Police would not approve any travel to a EU country on notification because of the tic 4 tat.  So option 1 would not happen.
With option 2 would it mean that I have to repatriate myself to ireland as a resident (using that citizenship) as my comment on option 1 would not allow me to travel to Ireland?

As ever life is never easy when you want to abide by the rules but it does make it interesting for the grey cells.

take care

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
AB2014
AB2014
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JASB - 26 Oct 20 12:00 PM
Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

I can't speak for Debs, but it seems to me you have two options.

1. You travel on your British passport, after notification to the police, and they then do what they choose to do and so do the EU.
2. You travel on your Irish passport. Assuming you've already given the details to the police when you registered, then when you travel, after notification, they still tell the EU, and as you have an Irish passport, the details are added to the Schengen system because you are a citizen of an EU member state. They're unlikely to stop you travelling, and the EU can't stop you entering, but your information will be permanently lodged in their system if it isn't at present.

Is the outcome of option 2 what you want in the long term?

=========================================================

As Chris Stacey said: Although its not formally part of the sentence that is handed down in court, the criminal record that someone comes away with effectively becomes a second sentence, which can have a long-lasting, if not lifelong, impact.

JASB
JASB
Supreme Being
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Deb S - 26 Oct 20 10:14 AM
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

Hi Debs,

Many thanks for the post and I think the future will be interesting.

One question I wonder if your adviser's could answer if we say for the sake of discussion the EU responds in a negative manner i.e. tic for tat.

I have dual citizenship (Irish/British) so could I not just use my Irish citizenship to travel?

Keep safe and again many thanks for your's and your colleagues support.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Debbie Sadler
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Posts: 407, Visits: 5.3K
Morning everybody

Trust you all had a good weekend. The weather down in Kent certainly got pretty wintery and I'm sure this will lead to some of you thinking about warmer climes.

However, Priti Patel's announcement last week that "EU criminals could be banned from entering the UK under tighter border rules" has made many of us wonder whether the EU will consider implementing similar requirements for UK citizens travelling to the EU. We've just published a new advice post with our thoughts but let us know what you think. 

Debs 

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