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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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+x+xRight, I know you're all glued to your seats in regards to my life so I thought I'd update you job wise now I've slept on it a couple of days. I got an email from who would be my manager reminding me about the information they need to finalise the job offer. So I sent a decent email back basically saying "Here's the story" with details of the offence/sentence etc. a little bit about how I've moved on and changed since then. I then said that I'm still absolutely interested if they're still willing to give me a shot but if they want to rescind the offer I understand too. So the ball is in their court now. I've been 100% upfront and honest with them, has to count for something right? Hi I understand your approach but the only thing I would may of suggested is that I would of limited the amount you wrote about your offence; obviously agree with saying you have one BUT suggest either a face to face or telephone to provide the details. Many reasons for my approach but in a face to face they / you can see each others reactions and you may possibly stop if you see them reacting horrified. Rightly or wrongly I prefer to limit the amount of information though allowing them to ask questions. I was interviewed by VW for a project role, they were aware of an offence but not details. I was second in line to be interviewed and the first words they said were " no need for the details". My PO had said he would be contacting them if I got the role so I persisted in providing the info. Unknown to me they had already decided on the 1st interviewed contractor and my interview was a nicety as I have travelled there. I learnt a lot that day; especially revisiting my "reading of others" skills. Good luck Oh, when I say I went into the details what I mean was I just named the offence which is Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 S52(1)(A), if they're super bothered then they can look it up and when I expect to it to be spent. The other bits was more about how I've learned from it and changed myself for the better and how I'm just looking for an opportunity to prove myself. Turns out it was the right move as I got an email back from them really thanking me for the honesty and being upfront about it, letting me know it hasn't scared them away and my role wouldn't need a disclosure anyway. The form in this instance is more for looking after the safety of their staff. So it's good to get that messy bit over with so I can quite happily fill out the forms and send them back today.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 1.8K
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+xRight, I know you're all glued to your seats in regards to my life so I thought I'd update you job wise now I've slept on it a couple of days. I got an email from who would be my manager reminding me about the information they need to finalise the job offer. So I sent a decent email back basically saying "Here's the story" with details of the offence/sentence etc. a little bit about how I've moved on and changed since then. I then said that I'm still absolutely interested if they're still willing to give me a shot but if they want to rescind the offer I understand too. So the ball is in their court now. I've been 100% upfront and honest with them, has to count for something right? Hi I understand your approach but the only thing I would may of suggested is that I would of limited the amount you wrote about your offence; obviously agree with saying you have one BUT suggest either a face to face or telephone to provide the details. Many reasons for my approach but in a face to face they / you can see each others reactions and you may possibly stop if you see them reacting horrified. Rightly or wrongly I prefer to limit the amount of information though allowing them to ask questions. I was interviewed by VW for a project role, they were aware of an offence but not details. I was second in line to be interviewed and the first words they said were " no need for the details". My PO had said he would be contacting them if I got the role so I persisted in providing the info. Unknown to me they had already decided on the 1st interviewed contractor and my interview was a nicety as I have travelled there. I learnt a lot that day; especially revisiting my "reading of others" skills. Good luck
Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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Right, I know you're all glued to your seats in regards to my life so I thought I'd update you job wise now I've slept on it a couple of days.
I got an email from who would be my manager reminding me about the information they need to finalise the job offer. So I sent a decent email back basically saying "Here's the story" with details of the offence/sentence etc. a little bit about how I've moved on and changed since then. I then said that I'm still absolutely interested if they're still willing to give me a shot but if they want to rescind the offer I understand too.
So the ball is in their court now. I've been 100% upfront and honest with them, has to count for something right?
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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+x+xI think I'll revert to Plan A and just bow out from the job, make up some excuse to the job centre/DWP to keep them from kicking up a stink about it and then just sit tight for the remainder of my order which, as I say, will be done in February although they have said there is potential for an early disposal but that's obviously not guaranteed. Financially I can survive and will be okay until it runs out. I found that after six months of complying with the rules, I told my work coach that I had an unspent conviction and they stopped bothering me and didn't even ask me in for interviews anymore. I was never sure whether this was because of policy or incompetence. It's interesting you mention that as I've heard people report similar things - At least where the work coach will lay off you for a bit almost I guess as you're seen as a 'lost cause'. The DWP are aware of my conviction but I declared it years ago when I was sentenced. I've had a few work coaches since then and have declared it to two of them, I'm not doing it again as it was humiliating having to talk about it on the open floor like that as they wouldn't take me aside "for security reasons".
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Was
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 299,
Visits: 3.7K
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+xI think I'll revert to Plan A and just bow out from the job, make up some excuse to the job centre/DWP to keep them from kicking up a stink about it and then just sit tight for the remainder of my order which, as I say, will be done in February although they have said there is potential for an early disposal but that's obviously not guaranteed. Financially I can survive and will be okay until it runs out. I found that after six months of complying with the rules, I told my work coach that I had an unspent conviction and they stopped bothering me and didn't even ask me in for interviews anymore. I was never sure whether this was because of policy or incompetence.
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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+xIt's up to you how you deal with this, and you're facing a lot of conflicting information. As I said before, a basic disclosure will say whether your conviction is spent. The order thing would make a difference down here, but there was no mention of that in the Scottish law. Maybe the Scottish parliament took the mature decision not to force the courts to decide between rehabilitation and victim support. Maybe not. Don't rely on Disclosure Scotland weeding out ineligible checks, as I was nearly the victim of one because the person making the request lied about the job title and the workforce. When it comes down to data protection, you are the last line of defence, not Disclosure Scotland. Yeah, it's the constant conflicting information that's doing my nut in. I think I'll revert to Plan A and just bow out from the job, make up some excuse to the job centre/DWP to keep them from kicking up a stink about it and then just sit tight for the remainder of my order which, as I say, will be done in February although they have said there is potential for an early disposal but that's obviously not guaranteed. Financially I can survive and will be okay until it runs out.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.6K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xSo the big question has been asked. Not even if it's unspent, they just want to know about any convictions but allegedly it won't be held against me. https://i.imgur.com/7P0iGds.pngThat little box isn't exactly enough to detail out the offence, so what do we think? It does specifically mention unspent convictions? Even if it didn't a spent conviction shouldn't be disclosed on a form which asks for "all convictions" unless the role is part of the protected group that require it. If your conviction is spent (which it sounds like if you just have SOR and no SHPO) I would be filling in that form as if I had no convictions. Yeah, that's my thinking. It certainly isn't a role I'd expect to have any relevant safeguarding element, it's an office-based, over the phone customer service type role. Doesn't involve interacting with children. I believe my conviction is spent but it seems a little confusing as Police Scotland and my social worker claim it isn't yet looking at all the documents and guidelines online it should be. I've sent an enquiry off to Disclosure Scotland to see what they say as ultimately it'll be then that'll pass the information on if an employer requests a certificate. It just seems to be that one little bit about "not previous convictions, or..." that's throwing me off. I am tempted to just sign it off as if I have none and then if something crops up then I can just deal with it then and say "well look, it's spent, I'm under no legal obligation to inform you of it. Has it effected my ability to do my role? blah blah blah". Wherever you are in the UK, whether England & Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, one of the fundamental principles is that you only tell them what they're going to see if they do the right level of check. That level depends on the job itself, not the whims, pretensions, delusions or misunderstandings of the employer. So, if the correct check is a basic disclosure, only tell them if you have any unspent convictions. Once your conviction is spent, you have the right to be treated in the same way as someone who never had that conviction. If a conviction is disclosed that you think shouldn't be disclosed, the first thing to do is to raise it with whichever agency produced it. So, for khafka, that would be Disclosure Scotland. You would probably need to tell them why you think it shouldn't be disclosed, or they will just fob you off. Got in touch with my social worker again about spent/unspent. Seemingly they're seeing my offence as unspent due to the rehabilitation order keeping it open. They're aware that the notification requirements themselves don't prevent it from being spent but the rehab order does. Keeping in mind I finished my rehab course about 2 months ago and have moved onto once a month contact with my social worker until my notification requirements runs out in Feb. What a mess. Losing the job itself isn't really much of an issue for me, I've been refused loads of jobs because of my conviction. What would be getting me is getting excited about this particular role as it's one that my experience and history, I reckon I'd do really well in it and I'd really enjoy it then having to go back to the job centre and dealing with the fall out of that again. Although saying that, it looks like it'll be at least a standard disclosure going by their guidance documents: https://i.imgur.com/R9izMFd.pngThe job offer is an excepted post, so it is likely they will see it. Again, it does go on to further state that they need to weigh up how it'd effect me day-to-day work which going by what I've said would be absolutely zero. Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm thinking of pulling out as I can't be arsed with it all but I'm also tempted to phone their HR up and say "Look, here's the situation. What's likely to happen?" so I know whether to waste my time with it. Again, I'm talking about England & Wales, but the principle should be the same. It's not about regular contact, it's about whether you are engaged in regulated activity. That is defined down here, so I'm sure that Disclosure Scotland would have their own version of the guidance. After all, if you work in a toy shop or a clothes shop, you will definitely have regular contact with children, but you'd still have a basic disclosure. If the employer tries an ineligible check, Disclosure Scotland will have a procedure to deal with that - it is a requirement of data protection law to prevent data breaches. I'd advise against phoning HR, because even if they don't have the legal right to the information, if you volunteer it then that gives them that right. At some point, it will come down to a basic disclosure, so you might as well get that now and see whether your conviction is spent. Either way, you will know what you're dealing with. Thanks for your help with it. As for the ineligible check thing my understanding is Disclosure Scotland would stop them when the request comes in as they have to state what the role is and why they believe it requires the level of disclosure they are requesting. It's then up to Disclosure Scotland to then yay or nay it. I'm honestly getting a little bit of cold feet about it and think I might just pull the plug on the job and stick with my original plan (sit tight and hold off on jobs and keep the DWP at bay until I'm done with everything in February. I've last over 2 years so far, another 6 months won't kill me) but also just order myself a basic disclosure certificate so I at least know what I'm working with moving forward. It's up to you how you deal with this, and you're facing a lot of conflicting information. As I said before, a basic disclosure will say whether your conviction is spent. The order thing would make a difference down here, but there was no mention of that in the Scottish law. Maybe the Scottish parliament took the mature decision not to force the courts to decide between rehabilitation and victim support. Maybe not. Don't rely on Disclosure Scotland weeding out ineligible checks, as I was nearly the victim of one because the person making the request lied about the job title and the workforce. When it comes down to data protection, you are the last line of defence, not Disclosure Scotland.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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+x+x+x+x+x+xSo the big question has been asked. Not even if it's unspent, they just want to know about any convictions but allegedly it won't be held against me. https://i.imgur.com/7P0iGds.pngThat little box isn't exactly enough to detail out the offence, so what do we think? It does specifically mention unspent convictions? Even if it didn't a spent conviction shouldn't be disclosed on a form which asks for "all convictions" unless the role is part of the protected group that require it. If your conviction is spent (which it sounds like if you just have SOR and no SHPO) I would be filling in that form as if I had no convictions. Yeah, that's my thinking. It certainly isn't a role I'd expect to have any relevant safeguarding element, it's an office-based, over the phone customer service type role. Doesn't involve interacting with children. I believe my conviction is spent but it seems a little confusing as Police Scotland and my social worker claim it isn't yet looking at all the documents and guidelines online it should be. I've sent an enquiry off to Disclosure Scotland to see what they say as ultimately it'll be then that'll pass the information on if an employer requests a certificate. It just seems to be that one little bit about "not previous convictions, or..." that's throwing me off. I am tempted to just sign it off as if I have none and then if something crops up then I can just deal with it then and say "well look, it's spent, I'm under no legal obligation to inform you of it. Has it effected my ability to do my role? blah blah blah". Wherever you are in the UK, whether England & Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, one of the fundamental principles is that you only tell them what they're going to see if they do the right level of check. That level depends on the job itself, not the whims, pretensions, delusions or misunderstandings of the employer. So, if the correct check is a basic disclosure, only tell them if you have any unspent convictions. Once your conviction is spent, you have the right to be treated in the same way as someone who never had that conviction. If a conviction is disclosed that you think shouldn't be disclosed, the first thing to do is to raise it with whichever agency produced it. So, for khafka, that would be Disclosure Scotland. You would probably need to tell them why you think it shouldn't be disclosed, or they will just fob you off. Got in touch with my social worker again about spent/unspent. Seemingly they're seeing my offence as unspent due to the rehabilitation order keeping it open. They're aware that the notification requirements themselves don't prevent it from being spent but the rehab order does. Keeping in mind I finished my rehab course about 2 months ago and have moved onto once a month contact with my social worker until my notification requirements runs out in Feb. What a mess. Losing the job itself isn't really much of an issue for me, I've been refused loads of jobs because of my conviction. What would be getting me is getting excited about this particular role as it's one that my experience and history, I reckon I'd do really well in it and I'd really enjoy it then having to go back to the job centre and dealing with the fall out of that again. Although saying that, it looks like it'll be at least a standard disclosure going by their guidance documents: https://i.imgur.com/R9izMFd.pngThe job offer is an excepted post, so it is likely they will see it. Again, it does go on to further state that they need to weigh up how it'd effect me day-to-day work which going by what I've said would be absolutely zero. Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm thinking of pulling out as I can't be arsed with it all but I'm also tempted to phone their HR up and say "Look, here's the situation. What's likely to happen?" so I know whether to waste my time with it. Again, I'm talking about England & Wales, but the principle should be the same. It's not about regular contact, it's about whether you are engaged in regulated activity. That is defined down here, so I'm sure that Disclosure Scotland would have their own version of the guidance. After all, if you work in a toy shop or a clothes shop, you will definitely have regular contact with children, but you'd still have a basic disclosure. If the employer tries an ineligible check, Disclosure Scotland will have a procedure to deal with that - it is a requirement of data protection law to prevent data breaches. I'd advise against phoning HR, because even if they don't have the legal right to the information, if you volunteer it then that gives them that right. At some point, it will come down to a basic disclosure, so you might as well get that now and see whether your conviction is spent. Either way, you will know what you're dealing with. Thanks for your help with it. As for the ineligible check thing my understanding is Disclosure Scotland would stop them when the request comes in as they have to state what the role is and why they believe it requires the level of disclosure they are requesting. It's then up to Disclosure Scotland to then yay or nay it. I'm honestly getting a little bit of cold feet about it and think I might just pull the plug on the job and stick with my original plan (sit tight and hold off on jobs and keep the DWP at bay until I'm done with everything in February. I've last over 2 years so far, another 6 months won't kill me) but also just order myself a basic disclosure certificate so I at least know what I'm working with moving forward.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.6K
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+x+x+x+x+xSo the big question has been asked. Not even if it's unspent, they just want to know about any convictions but allegedly it won't be held against me. https://i.imgur.com/7P0iGds.pngThat little box isn't exactly enough to detail out the offence, so what do we think? It does specifically mention unspent convictions? Even if it didn't a spent conviction shouldn't be disclosed on a form which asks for "all convictions" unless the role is part of the protected group that require it. If your conviction is spent (which it sounds like if you just have SOR and no SHPO) I would be filling in that form as if I had no convictions. Yeah, that's my thinking. It certainly isn't a role I'd expect to have any relevant safeguarding element, it's an office-based, over the phone customer service type role. Doesn't involve interacting with children. I believe my conviction is spent but it seems a little confusing as Police Scotland and my social worker claim it isn't yet looking at all the documents and guidelines online it should be. I've sent an enquiry off to Disclosure Scotland to see what they say as ultimately it'll be then that'll pass the information on if an employer requests a certificate. It just seems to be that one little bit about "not previous convictions, or..." that's throwing me off. I am tempted to just sign it off as if I have none and then if something crops up then I can just deal with it then and say "well look, it's spent, I'm under no legal obligation to inform you of it. Has it effected my ability to do my role? blah blah blah". Wherever you are in the UK, whether England & Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, one of the fundamental principles is that you only tell them what they're going to see if they do the right level of check. That level depends on the job itself, not the whims, pretensions, delusions or misunderstandings of the employer. So, if the correct check is a basic disclosure, only tell them if you have any unspent convictions. Once your conviction is spent, you have the right to be treated in the same way as someone who never had that conviction. If a conviction is disclosed that you think shouldn't be disclosed, the first thing to do is to raise it with whichever agency produced it. So, for khafka, that would be Disclosure Scotland. You would probably need to tell them why you think it shouldn't be disclosed, or they will just fob you off. Got in touch with my social worker again about spent/unspent. Seemingly they're seeing my offence as unspent due to the rehabilitation order keeping it open. They're aware that the notification requirements themselves don't prevent it from being spent but the rehab order does. Keeping in mind I finished my rehab course about 2 months ago and have moved onto once a month contact with my social worker until my notification requirements runs out in Feb. What a mess. Losing the job itself isn't really much of an issue for me, I've been refused loads of jobs because of my conviction. What would be getting me is getting excited about this particular role as it's one that my experience and history, I reckon I'd do really well in it and I'd really enjoy it then having to go back to the job centre and dealing with the fall out of that again. Although saying that, it looks like it'll be at least a standard disclosure going by their guidance documents: https://i.imgur.com/R9izMFd.pngThe job offer is an excepted post, so it is likely they will see it. Again, it does go on to further state that they need to weigh up how it'd effect me day-to-day work which going by what I've said would be absolutely zero. Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm thinking of pulling out as I can't be arsed with it all but I'm also tempted to phone their HR up and say "Look, here's the situation. What's likely to happen?" so I know whether to waste my time with it. Again, I'm talking about England & Wales, but the principle should be the same. It's not about regular contact, it's about whether you are engaged in regulated activity. That is defined down here, so I'm sure that Disclosure Scotland would have their own version of the guidance. After all, if you work in a toy shop or a clothes shop, you will definitely have regular contact with children, but you'd still have a basic disclosure. If the employer tries an ineligible check, Disclosure Scotland will have a procedure to deal with that - it is a requirement of data protection law to prevent data breaches. I'd advise against phoning HR, because even if they don't have the legal right to the information, if you volunteer it then that gives them that right. At some point, it will come down to a basic disclosure, so you might as well get that now and see whether your conviction is spent. Either way, you will know what you're dealing with.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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khafka
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 409,
Visits: 21K
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+x+x+x+xSo the big question has been asked. Not even if it's unspent, they just want to know about any convictions but allegedly it won't be held against me. https://i.imgur.com/7P0iGds.pngThat little box isn't exactly enough to detail out the offence, so what do we think? It does specifically mention unspent convictions? Even if it didn't a spent conviction shouldn't be disclosed on a form which asks for "all convictions" unless the role is part of the protected group that require it. If your conviction is spent (which it sounds like if you just have SOR and no SHPO) I would be filling in that form as if I had no convictions. Yeah, that's my thinking. It certainly isn't a role I'd expect to have any relevant safeguarding element, it's an office-based, over the phone customer service type role. Doesn't involve interacting with children. I believe my conviction is spent but it seems a little confusing as Police Scotland and my social worker claim it isn't yet looking at all the documents and guidelines online it should be. I've sent an enquiry off to Disclosure Scotland to see what they say as ultimately it'll be then that'll pass the information on if an employer requests a certificate. It just seems to be that one little bit about "not previous convictions, or..." that's throwing me off. I am tempted to just sign it off as if I have none and then if something crops up then I can just deal with it then and say "well look, it's spent, I'm under no legal obligation to inform you of it. Has it effected my ability to do my role? blah blah blah". Wherever you are in the UK, whether England & Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, one of the fundamental principles is that you only tell them what they're going to see if they do the right level of check. That level depends on the job itself, not the whims, pretensions, delusions or misunderstandings of the employer. So, if the correct check is a basic disclosure, only tell them if you have any unspent convictions. Once your conviction is spent, you have the right to be treated in the same way as someone who never had that conviction. If a conviction is disclosed that you think shouldn't be disclosed, the first thing to do is to raise it with whichever agency produced it. So, for khafka, that would be Disclosure Scotland. You would probably need to tell them why you think it shouldn't be disclosed, or they will just fob you off. Got in touch with my social worker again about spent/unspent. Seemingly they're seeing my offence as unspent due to the rehabilitation order keeping it open. They're aware that the notification requirements themselves don't prevent it from being spent but the rehab order does. Keeping in mind I finished my rehab course about 2 months ago and have moved onto once a month contact with my social worker until my notification requirements runs out in Feb. What a mess. Losing the job itself isn't really much of an issue for me, I've been refused loads of jobs because of my conviction. What would be getting me is getting excited about this particular role as it's one that my experience and history, I reckon I'd do really well in it and I'd really enjoy it then having to go back to the job centre and dealing with the fall out of that again. Although saying that, it looks like it'll be at least a standard disclosure going by their guidance documents: https://i.imgur.com/R9izMFd.pngThe job offer is an excepted post, so it is likely they will see it. Again, it does go on to further state that they need to weigh up how it'd effect me day-to-day work which going by what I've said would be absolutely zero. Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm thinking of pulling out as I can't be arsed with it all but I'm also tempted to phone their HR up and say "Look, here's the situation. What's likely to happen?" so I know whether to waste my time with it.
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