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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 85,
Visits: 673
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers. I actually don't know if my own risk is high. Since getting out of jail I was told it was high, that was 10 years ago. Since then the officers visit less frequently giving the impression of less risk. But how official that is I don't know. They give the impression of being totally disinterested, now coming once every 6 months. So I stand before you now in Europe, legally entitled (as far as Britain is concerned) to go to USA. And possibly very able to do so if there are no notices out, especially as I just succeeded at getting a Canadian ETA. Just evaluating the stakes. if they are visiting every 6 months, it means your risk is medium. October 20th to April 3rd was the last. Down from once every ~10-12 weeks. So unless I rock the boat in that regard, the guidelines would be against them issuing a green notice to USA even if I did notify? Exceptions would be if I'm going to the carve out a career in childhood photography in the land of the free etc. When I spoke to my PPU about green notices she said they are considered on a case by case basis. She did say that they would let me know if they were issuing a green notice. Whether this is the same for all PPU's and police forces I don't know
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Stersco83
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
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+x+x+x+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers. I actually don't know if my own risk is high. Since getting out of jail I was told it was high, that was 10 years ago. Since then the officers visit less frequently giving the impression of less risk. But how official that is I don't know. They give the impression of being totally disinterested, now coming once every 6 months. So I stand before you now in Europe, legally entitled (as far as Britain is concerned) to go to USA. And possibly very able to do so if there are no notices out, especially as I just succeeded at getting a Canadian ETA. Just evaluating the stakes. if they are visiting every 6 months, it means your risk is medium. October 20th to April 3rd was the last. Down from once every ~10-12 weeks. So unless I rock the boat in that regard, the guidelines would be against them issuing a green notice to USA even if I did notify? Exceptions would be if I'm going to the carve out a career in childhood photography in the land of the free etc.
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punter99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 901,
Visits: 7.5K
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+x+x+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers. I actually don't know if my own risk is high. Since getting out of jail I was told it was high, that was 10 years ago. Since then the officers visit less frequently giving the impression of less risk. But how official that is I don't know. They give the impression of being totally disinterested, now coming once every 6 months. So I stand before you now in Europe, legally entitled (as far as Britain is concerned) to go to USA. And possibly very able to do so if there are no notices out, especially as I just succeeded at getting a Canadian ETA. Just evaluating the stakes. if they are visiting every 6 months, it means your risk is medium.
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Richard
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 85,
Visits: 673
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+x+x+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers. I actually don't know if my own risk is high. Since getting out of jail I was told it was high, that was 10 years ago. Since then the officers visit less frequently giving the impression of less risk. But how official that is I don't know. They give the impression of being totally disinterested, now coming once every 6 months. So I stand before you now in Europe, legally entitled (as far as Britain is concerned) to go to USA. And possibly very able to do so if there are no notices out, especially as I just succeeded at getting a Canadian ETA. Just evaluating the stakes. Have you tried asking your PPU, when I asked last year it was low risk and this was confirmed in court when I applied to have my SHPO removed. This means visits of every 12 months or so
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Stersco83
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
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+x+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers. I actually don't know if my own risk is high. Since getting out of jail I was told it was high, that was 10 years ago. Since then the officers visit less frequently giving the impression of less risk. But how official that is I don't know. They give the impression of being totally disinterested, now coming once every 6 months. So I stand before you now in Europe, legally entitled (as far as Britain is concerned) to go to USA. And possibly very able to do so if there are no notices out, especially as I just succeeded at getting a Canadian ETA. Just evaluating the stakes.
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punter99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 901,
Visits: 7.5K
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+x+x+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? Legally, you just need to tell all you know before you depart UK. So any evidence of premeditation when in UK (such as a printout of this thread), would put you in legal jeopardy. - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA. Since none of the EU countries are high risk, then a green notice would only be issued if your own personal risk was high. A green notice is only advisory, so it does not stop you from getting in to the USA. It leaves the final decision to local immigration officers.
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Stersco83
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
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+x+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? Legally, you just need to tell all you know before you depart UK. So any evidence of premeditation when in UK (such as a printout of this thread), would put you in legal jeopardy. - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued. 2 more data points: - Do they bother issuing green notices for Europe nowadays, or is that regarded as misapplication? They used to use the inbuild Shengen thingy during the EU days. Now do they resort to green notice or what? - I succeeded in filling out an ESTA while abroad here in Europe. Does that flush out the possibility of a Green Notice? I COULD just fly back home (from here in Germany) and wait till August when I'm of the register to go to USA, but that's bad for business, so I'm trying to logically deduce if I might be de facto "off the register" as far as concerns possible travel to USA.
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punter99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 901,
Visits: 7.5K
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+xWell , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? Legally, you just need to tell all you know before you depart UK. So any evidence of premeditation when in UK (such as a printout of this thread), would put you in legal jeopardy. However, I am currently on the Continent for 9 days now and external forces have given me a reason to visit the US spontaneously -- I am still on SOR. - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion. A green notice is issued to the world. A green diffusion is issued to a particular country. Whether they would issue any of them depends on your risk level and that of the country you are visiting. High risk people and/or high risk countries probably would trigger a green diffusion at the very least. But if you are low or medium risk, and visiting a low or medium risk country, then it depends on how the PPU and NCA view your risk, based on what little they know about you, mainly the notes they have made from their home visits. I have read that green notices are actually incredibly rare and because 80% of people on the SOR are medium or low risk, I do not expect many are issued.
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Stersco83
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
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Well , maybe I can help. The title "long stay trip" is a bit vague. Everyone, shall we have a "Spontaneous Subsequent Port of Call" thread? Or the "Indiana Jones" loophole? Legally, you just need to tell all you know before you depart UK. So any evidence of premeditation when in UK (such as a printout of this thread), would put you in legal jeopardy. However, I am currently on the Continent for 9 days now and external forces have given me a reason to visit the US spontaneously -- I am still on SOR. This very scenario, which was always foreseeable (I've mentioned it before and been here before but never went through with it), is why the question interests me: - Are Green Notices issued to the World (even if it is conditional upon declaring such and such a country in notification), or just the declared destination country?
- Would one have been delivered to the World, even though I've only ever notified in terms of Europe?
Answers tend to vary on this, but it would be nice to see substantiated conclusive answer, as we are talking technicalities here, not discretion.
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expatofff
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30,
Visits: 365
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIf someone travels to for example Turkey (could be anywhere) and stays for 90 days could they within that 90 days visit another country and then return to Turkey ? You obviously need to give details to the UK police that your travelling to Turkey and intend to stay for 90 days but do you need to give them details if you visit another country for a few days if you still return from Turkey on your expected date ? Would you need to even tell them you visited another country or even 2 other countries when you returned ? That was the exact question I have asked when they visited me. Their answer was "You can, but you don't have to" (inform us) What about when you arrive back in the UK so you need to inform them about the extra countries you've been to ? So you're saying you could tour Europe and as long as you give them your departure airport and arrive back on the date and to the airport you told them about you don't need to give any extra information at all ? I just asked them. And that was their answer. In reality, I never travelled to places which were not notified. But since you have to notify in person at a police station I don't know how you can do that while you are in Turkey (or wherever). At the end of the day it is up to you and the relationship you have with your PPU. I had/have no problems in telling them, even with an email ,where I am and where I am going to, but if they said ' you don't have to' means that since you cannot go in person to a UK police station, you can go wherever you like. And I guess that if they ever find out, they can't do anything about it. I am not a lawyer and this is just my opinion If I was abroad and I was then going to visit another country I hadn't made a notification for then I would email her to tell her what I was doing. That way you have it in writing you have notified them of a change of plan for your travels. Although I don't think you are bound to do this. If I was aware I was going to visit that country before I travelled I would make sure it was notified at the station. The regulation say you have to notify them of point of arrival in each country you will visit. It does say to notify them of any changes prior to departure but does not stipulate you have to do it after you leave the UK. I think it depends on what you knew and what you did not know, prior to departure. The guidance talks about notifying dates of intended stay in any country being visited, but the legislation only mentions the first country that you visit. The legislation also then vaguely talks about "any other information the offender holds" about his "movements outside the UK". https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-part-2-of-the-sexual-offences-act-2003/guidance-on-part-2-of-the-sexual-offences-act-2003-accessible-version#section-two-travel-outside-the-united-kingdomIf the person always intended to travel on to another country, once outside the UK, and did not notify that in advance, then the courts would probably view that as a breach. For example, if they booked a connecting flight in advance. But if the person decided on the spur of the moment having already arrived in the first country, that they would like to visit a second country, then there is no requirement to notify. If the police subsequently found out and took the person to court for a breach, then the judge would look at any available evidence. For example, did they research visiting the second country on the internet, before leaving the UK. If the CPS could prove pre existing intent, they might decide they could win the case. Two points to mention that haven't come up so far. In relation to what punter99 said about notification, once you are outside the UK, your notification requirements aren't enforceable. So, unless you get a stamp in your passport and the police inspect it, how would they know? Secondly, if you were in a foreign country and decided to travel on to a Section 172 country, if the police ever find out, they might well want to take further action of some sort. If you're found to have sneaked into a Section 172 country, that's likely to be a major red flag for the PPU team. At a minimum once you're back in the UK there are going to be lot more home visits - hopefully your neighbours aren't the curious type !! Context would be important too. If you told the PPU you were going to Turkey for 90 days and once there you hopped on a connecting flight to Thailand, that would look suspicious. But if you went to the south of Spain and whilst there, you took a day trip to Morocco on the spur of the moment, that might be overlooked. Thanks for all the replies. It seems as though you wouldn't be breaking any laws by doing this although they may not be very happy if they found out. Has anyone know anyone that's done this or done it themselves and what was the outcome ? Yes, I have done this. Though it wasn't a holiday, it was moving.
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