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AB2014
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Actually, all it means is that if a UK citizen is convicted in the EU (or in most other countries), the authorities there communicate the details to ACRO, who then add the information to the PNC. That happened before ECRIS and it still happens since Brexit. The government always assumed that they would have access to ECRIS after Brexit, but the EU were always clear that free movement of information is one of the pillars of the Single Market, and you're either in it or you're not. We're not.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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dedalus
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+xActually, all it means is that if a UK citizen is convicted in the EU (or in most other countries), the authorities there communicate the details to ACRO, who then add the information to the PNC. That happened before ECRIS and it still happens since Brexit. The government always assumed that they would have access to ECRIS after Brexit, but the EU were always clear that free movement of information is one of the pillars of the Single Market, and you're either in it or you're not. We're not. It seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS.
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Was
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+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked.
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dedalus
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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dedalus
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask. I agree with you re the bureocracy. My issue is that potentially sometime in the future I will probably be applying for residence in one of the EU countries. I have a recent conviction which in the scheme of things isn't earth shattering but if I declare it I am afraid they will just refuse ECRIS permission. All well and good for them to say minor offences would not be an issue but in the guidance there is no red line regarding this so it will imho arbitrarily decided by one of their bureocrats....so I can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency....
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Was
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Group: Forum Members
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+xI can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency.... Now I don't know what country you are referring to or level of conviction, but even the UK has a threshold for disbarring residential applications because of previous criminal convictions. | Sentence/disposal | Application will be refused until: |
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| Prison sentence between 12 months and 4 years | 15 years from the end of your full sentence (including time on licence) | | Prison sentence up to 12 months | 10 years from the end of your full sentence (including time on licence) | | Non-custodial sentence+ | 3 years from the date of conviction | | Caution | 3 years from the date of caution |
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+xIt seems that they run an automatic check against the databases available to the EU, i.e. interpol etc etc So I don't understand why they ask about criminal records if they are going to check said databases anyway automatically? I understand that as of now EU countries do not have access to PCN records but if this changes in the future it could leave those that state "no" in the criminal record questions in a predicament as the PCN would become part of the automatic checks by ECRIS. The Interpol database is not some vast transnational collection of criminal records. They hold mostly reference information most of which is not linked to individuals. If the UK police have not submitted a notice to Interpol, a convicted UK citizen is unlikely to be on it. Our 19 databases (interpol.int)Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there has never been routine cross-border access to the PNC. It has to be a request relating to a specific crime. Obviously UK Border Control has access. Where there could be issues at a foreign border is when that data could be held independently. For example, I had an active ESTA to the States. This was cancelled within hours of my sentence. The US does not have access to the PNC, but they could have a flag in their own database saying that a previous ESTA in my name was revoked. my point was that the question regarding criminal record on the ecris application is kind of redundant as they carry an automatic check anyway on the databases they have. So I cannot seem why they would ask the question. Well, as was said, they don't have access to the PNC, so they have to ask the question. All alerts put on SIS II by the UK police were deleted at the time of Brexit, but travel records from before that date wouldn't have been deleted. So, anything from after then won't be shown, while anything new added via Interpol would show up, as would any convictions received in an EU member state. If you aren't on their database, they won't find you, and they certainly won't learn any more than that if they don't ask. Bear in mind that the EU is the bureaucrat's ideal of bureaucracy, so they do love their rules and they expect everyone to comply with them. I'm sure they ask because it would never occur to them not to ask. I agree with you re the bureocracy. My issue is that potentially sometime in the future I will probably be applying for residence in one of the EU countries. I have a recent conviction which in the scheme of things isn't earth shattering but if I declare it I am afraid they will just refuse ECRIS permission. All well and good for them to say minor offences would not be an issue but in the guidance there is no red line regarding this so it will imho arbitrarily decided by one of their bureocrats....so I can easily put no when asked but I am concerned it will bite me on the bum should I apply for residency.... To be honest, if you apply for residence in an EU member state, you will probably need to provide a police certificate anyway, and that will always show your conviction. They wouldn't need to refer to ECRIS for that. After that, it's a question of whether you applied for ETIAS without disclosing something you should have disclosed at the time. Regarding Was's point about time limits for disbarring people, that is just for automatic refusals. They still have leeway to refuse entry to people under Immigration Rules part 9. I wouldn't expect any other country not to have the option to exclude people they just don't want for any reason that they can make an attempt at justifying in the Court of Public Opinion....
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Blueman202
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It depends on which eu state some ask for police certificate for residency some don’t if you just want to live in the eu and not to bothered about which country choose one that doesn’t
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Was
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+xRegarding Was's point about time limits for disbarring people, that is just for automatic refusals. They still have leeway to refuse entry to people under Immigration Rules part 9. You are correct. A Home Secretary can refuse any application if it gets that far. I'm from a similar sub-continent community (or half of me is) background to her. We refer to it as "pulling the drawbridge up after us"!
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