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Police recording visits, planning SHPO


Police recording visits, planning SHPO

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sainted
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Well, here's where I'm at.  Citizens Advice don't have a consultation with a pet solicitor any longer, so now they just refer you to lawworks but the phone number for them is disconnected (0207 092 3940). Found their website but no way to speak to a human being there.
Getting nowhere finding a crim sol specialised enough to deal with taking this to a magistrates, even within Luton or Milton Keynes which are the two Magistrates I can apply to.

Thought I would try another approach and find out what form I need to "apply to the Magistrates Court" with.  No answer from the phone numbers at either court.
Nor can I find out online what form I even need.

This sort of explains the smugness of police - they know it's practically impossible to appeal against their decision.
Pretty much end of the road.

edit:
Finally did get thru to MK Magistrates. There's no form. You need to "write in and we'll get advice off the legal team" which wasn't inspiring.
Rang the number for Single Justice Service Centre and spoke to a really helpful man who didn't have any information or forms he could refer me to but just said all he could find was instruction that appellants need to seek legal advice (which I'm unable to).
So he said in the absence of that I need to email the court stating I want to lodge an appeal so I've now sent an email to the address he provided, stating I want to lodge an appeal and with the police's refusal letter attached and asking for a hearing date and details of where/how to make payment.
Got an automated reply back saying they'll respond within 5 days or thereabouts.  So appeal lodged, if it's in the wrong format or not acceptable in any way nothing more I can do.

edit 2
Got a reply back from Milton Keynes Magistrates Court. Who knew Milton Keynes wasn't in Bedfordshire? They forwarded my email to Luton Magistrates who replied asking for a copy of my letter and the police refusal, and my reasons for wanting to appeal, along with instructions for payment. Sent a reply giving:
 
  1. Their two primary reasons for refusing my decision was that I didn’t provide them with a Gender Recognition Certificate. This is a replacement Birth Certificate, and I am not in possession of a GRC due to not having applied for one so I believe they penalised for something I am unable to comply with. It is not as if I have one and am refusing to let them see it.  And how is the possession of a Birth Certificate or its replacement anything to do with their management of risk.
  2. They mention that my “being on forums” is akin to alarm bells. I have been on forums for a flight simulator for twenty years, which they have never questioned in the 13.5 years I have been on their books. Further, I mentioned a tank game and forum some time ago to them, which I have not taken part in for over four years. Again, they have had ample opportunity to question this.  They are, to coin a phrase, “over-egging the pudding.”
  3. I refused to take a polygraph. Others are assessed without a polygraph, are their methods of assessment so ill-equipped that only a polygraph will suffice?
  4. There have been no instances of my contravening my notifications or of any warnings.
  5. I have tried, as best as I can, to get on with what little of my life I have. I avoid people and situations physically so I cannot be accused of anything, and this has meant that my life means “within my four walls” and that outside activities are, sadly, limited to computers. To that end my online activity relates to using a flight simulator, creating items relating to flight simulators, creating music on computers, as well as political discourse on Twitter.  I have, as much as possible, continued to lead a lawful life.
Payment made over phone and authorisation code emailed back.  Just wait to hear now, and I can work on those reasons above while I wait for a hearing date.
Edited
Last Year by sainted
punter99
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sainted - 20 Jul 23 1:27 PM

Well, here's where I'm at.  Citizens Advice don't have a consultation with a pet solicitor any longer, so now they just refer you to lawworks but the phone number for them is disconnected (0207 092 3940). Found their website but no way to speak to a human being there.
Getting nowhere finding a crim sol specialised enough to deal with taking this to a magistrates, even within Luton or Milton Keynes which are the two Magistrates I can apply to.

Thought I would try another approach and find out what form I need to "apply to the Magistrates Court" with.  No answer from the phone numbers at either court.
Nor can I find out online what form I even need.

This sort of explains the smugness of police - they know it's practically impossible to appeal against their decision.
Pretty much end of the road.

edit:
Finally did get thru to MK Magistrates. There's no form. You need to "write in and we'll get advice off the legal team" which wasn't inspiring.
Rang the number for Single Justice Service Centre and spoke to a really helpful man who didn't have any information or forms he could refer me to but just said all he could find was instruction that appellants need to seek legal advice (which I'm unable to).
So he said in the absence of that I need to email the court stating I want to lodge an appeal so I've now sent an email to the address he provided, stating I want to lodge an appeal and with the police's refusal letter attached and asking for a hearing date and details of where/how to make payment.
Got an automated reply back saying they'll respond within 5 days or thereabouts.  So appeal lodged, if it's in the wrong format or not acceptable in any way nothing more I can do.



It's a start. As a last resort, you could always ask the duty solicitor at the magistrates court to speak for you. But to do that, they would need to know the details of your case. What you are appealing against and what are the grounds for appeal? Preparation is essential. That's why I suggested the Citizens Advice. It's not so much the legal technicalities, but the drafting of the appeal that matters. Making sure you word it in a way that will convince a magistrate of your case. It's same as writing a letter of complaint, for example. You don't need a specialist solicitor, just someone who is good at writing letters.

Other possible sources of advice are listed here. https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals  

edit: also don't forget to keep a copy of the email you sent to the magistrates. Thats the evidence that you applied within the 21 day time limit.


Edited
Last Year by punter99
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Subject Access Request now applied for.
I'm guessing neither the Magistrate's hearing or the SAR will be speedy so gives me time to formulate what needs to be said.

Punter99
Citizens Advice were unable to help. They just don't have anyone (in my area certainly) to do with drafting stuff like this. They used to have a solicitor on certain days but that's restricted now to just Family Law stuff.
I am finding that there are very few sols prepared to get involved in the sort of appeal I need. Those that exist are in Manchester, Nottingham or London. Defo none my way.
Finding out the hard way that most are either duty solicitors or, at a pinch, prepared to deal with sexual offences but not dealing with coming off SOR or appealing against SOR refusals.

The two local solicitors I initially contacted, one got back to me and basically suggested compromising with the police and taking the polygraph (not an option).
The second one promised their relevant person would call me on Tuesday. They didn't.  I rang them again today and again they promised someone would ring me back this afternoon.  Again, they didn't.
Have rung the first sol to see if he'll at least represent me at Magistrates even if I don't swallow his advice to take the polygraph. Presuming he'll ring tomorrow (Fri.)
Duty Solicitor at Magistrates is an absolute last resort, only because I need someone to help formulate my defence, not just speak it and I doubt I'd get enough time with them for that.

Edited
Last Year by sainted
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sainted - 20 Jul 23 6:32 PM
Subject Access Request now applied for.
I'm guessing neither the Magistrate's hearing or the SAR will be speedy so gives me time to formulate what needs to be said.

Punter99
Citizens Advice were unable to help. They just don't have anyone (in my area certainly) to do with drafting stuff like this. They used to have a solicitor on certain days but that's restricted now to just Family Law stuff.
I am finding that there are very few sols prepared to get involved in the sort of appeal I need. Those that exist are in Manchester, Nottingham or London. Defo none my way.
Finding out the hard way that most are either duty solicitors or, at a pinch, prepared to deal with sexual offences but not dealing with coming off SOR or appealing against SOR refusals.

The two local solicitors I initially contacted, one got back to me and basically suggested compromising with the police and taking the polygraph (not an option).
The second one promised their relevant person would call me on Tuesday. They didn't.  I rang them again today and again they promised someone would ring me back this afternoon.  Again, they didn't.
Have rung the first sol to see if he'll at least represent me at Magistrates even if I don't swallow his advice to take the polygraph. Presuming he'll ring tomorrow (Fri.)
Duty Solicitor at Magistrates is an absolute last resort, only because I need someone to help formulate my defence, not just speak it and I doubt I'd get enough time with them for that.

https://unlock.org.uk/casestudy/kurt-you-dont-need-a-solicitor-to-represent-you-to-get-a-sexual-harm-prevention-order-shpo-discharged/

You might want to ring the Unlock helpline and see if they can help. You already have the basics covered. If GRC, forums and polygraph are all indicators of risk then why were none of these things raised with you for the last 15 years? The police risk assessment is based on incomplete information and doesn't represent a true and accurate picture of your circumstances. That's your opening line.

Other things you might want to think about. Since changing gender, has your mental health improved? Are you in touch with any support groups, for people who have been through the same experience, either online or in real life? Has your mum noticed any positive changes in your behaviour and would she be willing to write a letter supporting your appeal? 


Edited
Last Year by punter99
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Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


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sainted - 21 Jul 23 6:35 PM
Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


Brief update.
Went to magistrates today for a Case Management hearing.
Now listed for a full hearing at the beginning of March 2024.
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sainted - 22 Sep 23 2:16 PM
sainted - 21 Jul 23 6:35 PM
Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


Brief update.
Went to magistrates today for a Case Management hearing.
Now listed for a full hearing at the beginning of March 2024.

Nothing to say but "good luck"

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

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JASB - 22 Sep 23 3:24 PM
sainted - 22 Sep 23 2:16 PM
sainted - 21 Jul 23 6:35 PM
Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


Brief update.
Went to magistrates today for a Case Management hearing.
Now listed for a full hearing at the beginning of March 2024.

Nothing to say but "good luck"

Thanks.
Extra info, both parties aware so no loss revealing.

I did apply for the SAR and BP refused it, other than to provide a copy of the texts asking me if I wanted to apply to come off SOR, and also my risk level which has been MEDIUM from 2010 to 2020, when it went to LOW.

Barrister has asked for a full SAR, which BP has agreed to. Will be a week to obtain.
Barrister said demanding a polygraph to come off SOR is not normal. BP state it is, for them. (!)
Curious that they don't seem to have a copy of my court-issued Notification Requirements, so not sure how they're applying restrictions on me they don't even have. (!!)
Nothing set in stone yet, but clear that BP are slippery fucks.

Edited
Last Year by sainted
punter99
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sainted - 22 Sep 23 11:05 PM
JASB - 22 Sep 23 3:24 PM
sainted - 22 Sep 23 2:16 PM
sainted - 21 Jul 23 6:35 PM
Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


Brief update.
Went to magistrates today for a Case Management hearing.
Now listed for a full hearing at the beginning of March 2024.

Nothing to say but "good luck"

Thanks.
Extra info, both parties aware so no loss revealing.

I did apply for the SAR and BP refused it, other than to provide a copy of the texts asking me if I wanted to apply to come off SOR, and also my risk level which has been MEDIUM from 2010 to 2020, when it went to LOW.

Barrister has asked for a full SAR, which BP has agreed to. Will be a week to obtain.
Barrister said demanding a polygraph to come off SOR is not normal. BP state it is, for them. (!)
Curious that they don't seem to have a copy of my court-issued Notification Requirements, so not sure how they're applying restrictions on me they don't even have. (!!)
Nothing set in stone yet, but clear that BP are slippery fucks.

Surprising that its going take another 6 months to get a hearing. As for the notification requirements, these are not restrictions imposed by the police, but by the law itself. The SOA 2003, which is all documented in parliamentary records. 
sainted
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punter99 - 23 Sep 23 10:03 AM
sainted - 22 Sep 23 11:05 PM
JASB - 22 Sep 23 3:24 PM
sainted - 22 Sep 23 2:16 PM
sainted - 21 Jul 23 6:35 PM
Thanks
Solicitor now retained (£3,000), we'll finalise grounds in due course.


Brief update.
Went to magistrates today for a Case Management hearing.
Now listed for a full hearing at the beginning of March 2024.

Nothing to say but "good luck"

Thanks.
Extra info, both parties aware so no loss revealing.

I did apply for the SAR and BP refused it, other than to provide a copy of the texts asking me if I wanted to apply to come off SOR, and also my risk level which has been MEDIUM from 2010 to 2020, when it went to LOW.

Barrister has asked for a full SAR, which BP has agreed to. Will be a week to obtain.
Barrister said demanding a polygraph to come off SOR is not normal. BP state it is, for them. (!)
Curious that they don't seem to have a copy of my court-issued Notification Requirements, so not sure how they're applying restrictions on me they don't even have. (!!)
Nothing set in stone yet, but clear that BP are slippery fucks.

Surprising that its going take another 6 months to get a hearing. As for the notification requirements, these are not restrictions imposed by the police, but by the law itself. The SOA 2003, which is all documented in parliamentary records. 

6 months - BP want to call their Inspector + the plod who visits = 4hrs for total case = trying to find a slot to fit all that in.
NR - there is the standard NR, but we seem to need the NR that is specific to each person (extra conditions?)
GO


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