frenchy
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Sasha I am currently on probation, and have an 18 month licence which expires in Oct 2013. you have probably read my post on here, but I am trying to get my licence lifted so that I can go back and work in France doing my old job and living with my wife and children. So far I have just been rejected by probation, but have a meeting with them on Thursday regarding this. This morning I have just received a letter from my MP saying that they have passed my request to the Home Secretary, and the PPO have open a case yesterday. If you really believe that you have a case and depending on what you were originally sentenced for, then I would go down this route. I am not holding any hopes up on my case as I dont want to come crashing down, but I hope it is very carefully considered. I have no intention of giving up as I truly am a reformed offender. I don't know how long you are on licence for, but I would not risk being recalled by just going anyway.
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@DisgracedBanker
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Archie,
Does it not leave you having to continually explain when you return to the UK Border Desk why someone on probation is allowed to travel overseas ?
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@DisgracedBanker
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Fair play to you Archie,
It shows perservering pays off in the end. I guess its like prison, where the screws don't always know the rules and what is allowed, such that they just say no, very often. It is up to us then to prove otherwise. I have just begun the process of applying for permission. I've discussed it with the PO, she was unaware that such accomodation existed and gave me the blanket ban discussion, I made her aware of the Probation Circular and have now written to the Senior PO in my area. The hardest bit I find pinning down is getting some kind of indication from the probation service, what they deem to be 'exceptional' and how I can show that I would fall in that category.
As for lists, I don't know that I would be. Only a list of individuals on probation that the Border Agents would get - if they do. I am categorised as a low risk, non mappa, non sor, financial offences. Short sentence etc.
DB
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@DisgracedBanker
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Archie,
do you have the explicit exceptional circumstances statement at hand. I have had a reply from my own Probation office which talks ambiguiously only and says that even when exceptional cases exist, they will only allow travel in a small number of circumstances. The last bit seems ridiculous, I'm sure they aren't limited by the number of applications they can allow. As you say, each case on their merits.
However, I still haven't been given an explicit statement as to what would entail business related exceptional circumstances.
DB
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Sasha
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Hi,
Id just like to know what your experiences are (good AND bad) of travelling abroad whilst on license and dealing with probation??
Also does anyone know if information is linked to your passport....ie that your involved with probation??
Thanks!!
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release2succeed
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Hi Archie
It does seem ridiculous that you and others even have to worry about such things. I find it somehow pointless that the authorities are so concerned with ex-offenders international travel unless their original offences had some kind of international dimension (i.e. smuggling, crimes abroad, etc). It is simple because it is administratively possible and has the appearance of efficiency, if not the reality, that they bother at all.
I mean, what relevance is the travel arrangements of someone convicted previously of burglary or car theft?
Seems like a waste of everyone's time and effort but then irrational bureaucracy is nothing new to anyone on this forum.
Let's hope some common sense gets applied in the future
R2S
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archie
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Hi IanC A valid and interesting point. I personally would not tempt fate until off probation if seeking emigration, have you ever watched the people trying to enter Australia? . Even now although I am free from probation I am very much aware of 'chinese whispers etc' . however, the up side to this is that my past is in the past with my so called colleagues and friends and I don't ever see or hear from them, which in respect is quite sad. It is a much more reassuring experience traveling without the confinements of probation, but at the time it was a necessary evil to support my family and I had to deal with whatever came along, thankfully nothing did. However I have moved on since then and I choose to live a reformed and free existence, I keep my head down, I do not draw attention to myself, I plant ideas in others heads that may make a significant difference and let them take the praise as it where, my high flying days are over, that life is in the past, I was also unaware that the passports have changed again no chip? I think also and I have said this before, this web site is a god send, I have found it useful beyond words, and IanC I always look for your comments on these pages I have followed your advice and guidance from the begining it has certainly helped me. Regards Archie
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archie
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Hi Banker I don't have it at hand sorry, I am as we speak out of country. As a memory it went something like this, I appealed against the decision of my refusal because I could not find work in the UK within my profession. I had worked in this profession for over 35 yrs and as such due to my conviction I was unable to gain employment in my specialist area. I had worked over seas previously and I could gain employment there, indeed I was offered several job's I just had to keep turning them down, not due to my conviction but because the Probation refused to allow it. They played a merry old game of cat and mouse for a while which drove me to the brink at times. However, after getting on board the employment specialists that the PS use they argued that it was pointless re-training me because I was offered jobs, something that they could not do for me, in effect I was employable but could not get to the work due to restrictions. The moot point of the exceptional case was that I could not gain employment in the UK in my field, I was of an age where re-training was out of the question, My family where suffering due to my circumstances, I was offered work abroad within my field. The employment specialists stood up for me as did my local MP. The decision was that I was allowed to travel for work, only if I could prove that I met these points, which I did, I had to notify my employer of my conviction and of being on license restrictions and attend PO appointments per calendar month. I shall try to get the letters and post them here to Chris so that they can be looked at etc. Do you intend to continue the same line of work? If you worked say on the oil rigs prior to conviction, then you would probably be allowed to continue whilst on probation because this was your main line career or line of work, if you worked on the oil rigs and changed to deep sea fisher man than they would object, it is about the continuation of the life style of employment that had prior to conviction, and the impact upon your family also of your personal circumstances. The exceptional circumstances rule is a pretty grey area from what I was told, the decision rests with a job's worth, despite my PO agreeing to it a jobs worth decided that 'in her opinion' I initially did not meet the criteria. I appealed immediately within the hour by telephoning the head of my probation services and discussing the case and the decision with her. She agreed that she would hold a review, I then sent mail to the minister for probation and license and also my MP, who intervened my letters where explicit out lining my family circumstances and the benefit to the economy etc of having me paying taxes etc and not being a burden on the state, I just went for it big time. I also argued as did my solicitor of not being blanket covered and outlining the job of the probation services as in re-habilitation and getting the ex- offender back into society etc. I hope that this helps. Regards Archie
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archie
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hello Sasha Please do not give up on wanting to travel for work. I myself have submitted to treads on this issue. I have been on license whilst I navigated through the mine field of probation in order to achieve my goal. I was knocked back several times by job's worth's but I just refused to go away. I was successful in the end, but I must admit that I did have the support of my PO and other folk along the way. However it was by no means easy but it is achievable, keep at it. You must fit into the category of 'exceptional circumstances' your PO will give you the criteria, also recruit a good solicitor who will put your case forward under these rules, he will out line your case and the reasons for this and for that, also consider contacting the minister for justice and sentencing who determines your license conditions etc, and also your local MP who may support your request. The emphasis is on that you are a reformed offender who wishes to contribute to society and support your family etc.. Of course if permission is granted your PO will require that you provide evidence that you have informed your prospective employer that you are on license and that certain conditions must be met i.e PO visits every calendar moth and the nature of your offense? I see from this an automatic problem! Another issue is-is your prospective employer residing in the EU or further away? are they bound within the ROA ? to disclose or not to disclose ? IanC has an interesting take on disclosure, I find him a sensible soul and absolutely invaluable, I have followed his advice and thoughts often, I do not want to be a victim of what I did I need to move on, life can be difficult enough so I do what I feel is best for me, I would rather be employed than not. From my experience and information your passport chip only contains information that you submitted on your passport application, I have traveled often and far since I was allowed to travel, and I have never had a problem, I have filled in visa forms by the bucketful without problems and I have even been searched for as a matter of course for a visa application by Interpol without any issues. However, I think being granted permission to travle is dependent upon your offence and persistence, I myself are a low key offender or was classed as by my PO, I have traveled the world for over 7 months without issue (not USA) I have had meetings with my PO via, skype and telephone and e-mail. I am now free from license 2 weeks. Please don't travel without authority, I know it is tempting (will they catch you- will they know etc) it is up to you but if you get caught ?? back you go to the big house immediately. You must not be treat with a blanket ban, you are an individual and must request that you be dealt as such. Good luck Archie
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archie
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an apology for the spelling mistakes , my key board is a bit stiff (like me ) Archie
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