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Completing the ETA with a caution?


Completing the ETA with a caution?

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Effiew
Effiew
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Hi I was hoping someone could help? I have a caution from 2008 for damaging a car wing mirror, I was arrested but accepted the caution. I am really worried about answering yes in the question regarding convictions etc. As when I did that for a USA esta it automatically refused me and I spent a lot of time and money going to the American embassy to eventually be given a 10 year travel visa.
I know I have to be honest as the question does say arrested, but I've heard that they then ask for more information, I'm hoping that's true! Plus does a caution become spent?
I'm very confused!
rme123
rme123
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Effiew - 14 Dec 16 8:47 AM
Hi I was hoping someone could help? I have a caution from 2008 for damaging a car wing mirror, I was arrested but accepted the caution. I am really worried about answering yes in the question regarding convictions etc. As when I did that for a USA esta it automatically refused me and I spent a lot of time and money going to the American embassy to eventually be given a 10 year travel visa. I know I have to be honest as the question does say arrested, but I've heard that they then ask for more information, I'm hoping that's true! Plus does a caution become spent? I'm very confused!

Hi Effiew, as you've already disclosed your caution with them, it's probably safest to go through the long winded application process again. Even though it's a very trivial caution, it'll be on their system and if you don't disclose it, it's quite possible that you'll get pulled up on this. I know it's too late now, but in retrospect you would have been better off never disclosing in the first place.

There's a very long and very detailed thread about this here: https://www.travellerspoint.com/forum.cfm?thread=22639. The general advice for people in a similar position to you seems to be that if you have already disclosed once, it's best to disclose again. I'm not a lawyer though, so this I'm only going on what I've read in this thread. Fellow members of this forum may have a different experience or opinion.

As for your caution becoming "spent" - cautions can become "filtered". Take a look at the main unlock page for details about this. From the sounds of it, you should be eligible (though when it actually becomes filtered, i.e. removed from you record, I can't say). Also, if you look at the link I posted above, there seems to be an issue with filtered cautions and convictions which show up as "no live trace" (or something to that effect) on any disclosure documents you would receive from the DBS (assuming you were asked to supply these to the US embassy). This is basically a flaw in the system which ultimately acts as a red flag to those in the know - i.e. the department of homeland security know that "no live trace" means you have had a previous caution or conviction, whereas a "no record" disclosure means that you have never had a caution or conviction. I'm not sure I've explained that very well. If not, have a read through the travellerspoint forum as it's all explained more eloquently there.
Effiew
Effiew
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Hi thanks so much for your advice, I haven't actually disclosed anything regarding the Canadian ETA, do you mean as I've disclosed it with the USA esta i should still disclose on the Canadian form? Does anyone know whether the Canadian authorities automatically reject me or whether they will ask for further information? I'm hoping I can explain
Thanks again x
rme123
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Effiew - 14 Dec 16 4:18 PM
Hi thanks so much for your advice, I haven't actually disclosed anything regarding the Canadian ETA, do you mean as I've disclosed it with the USA esta i should still disclose on the Canadian form? Does anyone know whether the Canadian authorities automatically reject me or whether they will ask for further information? I'm hoping I can explain Thanks again x

Didn't realise this was for Canada - thought it was for entry to the US (again). Even, so it's probably best you disclose. If you look at the thread I posted the link to, a number of people have said that the US and Canada share that kind of data. In short, if you told one, assume the other know. It's not a secret or anything, but quite a publicly known arrangement as far as I can tell. Sorry I couldn't bring you more positive news. On the plus side, your caution is so minor that even if you disclose it to the Canadian authorities via their website, there's a good chance that you'll still get the visa regardless. Worst case scenario you have to jump through some bureaucratic hoops, but I can't imagine they would refuse entry based on such a minor caution.

It's probably best to get a second opinion before you do anything though. I think the Canadian visa rules have changed recently (for the worse or for the better, I don't know) and it's possible that you may no longer need to disclose - despite the sharing arrangement they have with the US. If the question clearly exempts your offence, then it would be a bit harsh of them to suddenly say that they have details of an "irrelevant" caution (by their definition) acquired via the US.
BenS
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The US and Canada share criminal conviction information from their own countries and about their own citizens, with each other, right down to minor driving infractions.

I don't know whether they share information about foreign citizens with non-US/Canadian convictions, but now that you have disclosed to the US, it's probably better to play it safe and disclose to Canada in case they have a way of knowing anyway, in which case they would be able to tell that you're not disclosing when you should be.

As already stated, the best thing would have been not to disclose in the first place and just got an ESTA, but now that the US knows about it then there is the possibility that Canada does too, or at least can access that information when they scan your passport. On the plus side, Canada's entry requirements are known to be not as tough as the US's, so if you got a US visa I'd reckon you could get a visa for pretty much anywhere else.

Have a thorough look on the eTA website to check whether you really need a visa or if you're eligible for an eTA anyway due to how minor your offence was.
Debbie Sadler
Debbie Sadler
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BenS - 15 Dec 16 7:59 AM
The US and Canada share criminal conviction information from their own countries and about their own citizens, with each other, right down to minor driving infractions.

I don't know whether they share information about foreign citizens with non-US/Canadian convictions, but now that you have disclosed to the US, it's probably better to play it safe and disclose to Canada in case they have a way of knowing anyway, in which case they would be able to tell that you're not disclosing when you should be.

As already stated, the best thing would have been not to disclose in the first place and just got an ESTA, but now that the US knows about it then there is the possibility that Canada does too, or at least can access that information when they scan your passport. On the plus side, Canada's entry requirements are known to be not as tough as the US's, so if you got a US visa I'd reckon you could get a visa for pretty much anywhere else.

Have a thorough look on the eTA website to check whether you really need a visa or if you're eligible for an eTA anyway due to how minor your offence was.

Hi Effiew

You've got nothing to worry about with your caution. The processing of the eTA roughly follows the concept of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and therefore, as a caution is spent immediately, the Canadian authorities more or less ignore them.

Have a look at our information hub page on travelling to Canada for further information - https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/travelling-canada/

Hope this helps.

Debs 

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danny50
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Deb S - 16 Dec 16 9:01 AM
You've got nothing to worry about with your caution. 

So how would that work with the actual question asked on ETA?

"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offence in any country?"

'Select ‘Yes’ if you have ever committed, been charged with or convicted of a crime in any country. Please provide as many details as possible. Failure to include additional and sufficient details may result in slower processing.'

Unlike the question on ESTA, where you can tick 'no' for some crimes, the Canadian question doesn't seem to have a get-out, even if you are rehabilitated.



Edited
3 Years Ago by danny50
candec
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danny50 - 10 Mar 17 3:02 PM
Deb S - 16 Dec 16 9:01 AM
You've got nothing to worry about with your caution. 

So how would that work with the actual question asked on ETA?

"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offence in any country?"

'Select ‘Yes’ if you have ever committed, been charged with or convicted of a crime in any country. Please provide as many details as possible. Failure to include additional and sufficient details may result in slower processing.'

Unlike the question on ESTA, where you can tick 'no' for some crimes, the Canadian question doesn't seem to have a get-out, even if you are rehabilitated.



I was thinking of travelling to Canada this year and according to what I've read the start date for a conviction is from the end of the sentence not from the conviction date . I served a 3 year probation which completed in April 2008. This becomes spent according to how it reads after 10 years in 2018. As stated earlier in the thread Canada's ETA includes all convictions unlike the USA's ESTA. I contacted an immigration lawyer in Ontario (anonymously) and was told to apply from a TRV (Temporary Resident Visa). The legal fees + TRV would add up to something like $1,200!  Does Canada share criminal records with UK as it does with the USA? I'm thinking of applying for the ETA and seeing if it is accepted.

AB2014
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candec - 9 Apr 17 12:47 PM
danny50 - 10 Mar 17 3:02 PM
Deb S - 16 Dec 16 9:01 AM
You've got nothing to worry about with your caution. 

So how would that work with the actual question asked on ETA?

"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offence in any country?"

'Select ‘Yes’ if you have ever committed, been charged with or convicted of a crime in any country. Please provide as many details as possible. Failure to include additional and sufficient details may result in slower processing.'

Unlike the question on ESTA, where you can tick 'no' for some crimes, the Canadian question doesn't seem to have a get-out, even if you are rehabilitated.



I was thinking of travelling to Canada this year and according to what I've read the start date for a conviction is from the end of the sentence not from the conviction date . I served a 3 year probation which completed in April 2008. This becomes spent according to how it reads after 10 years in 2018. As stated earlier in the thread Canada's ETA includes all convictions unlike the USA's ESTA. I contacted an immigration lawyer in Ontario (anonymously) and was told to apply from a TRV (Temporary Resident Visa). The legal fees + TRV would add up to something like $1,200!  Does Canada share criminal records with UK as it does with the USA? I'm thinking of applying for the ETA and seeing if it is accepted.

Hi candec,

If you got 3 years probation that finished in 2008, then that became spent years ago. Three years prison would be spent seven years from the end of the sentence, which should still be past by now. There's info on the Unlock website here that should be helpful. The Uk doesn't share criminal records with Canada. Hope that helps.

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candec
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AB2014 - 11 Apr 17 1:22 PM
candec - 9 Apr 17 12:47 PM
danny50 - 10 Mar 17 3:02 PM
Deb S - 16 Dec 16 9:01 AM
You've got nothing to worry about with your caution. 

So how would that work with the actual question asked on ETA?

"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offence in any country?"

'Select ‘Yes’ if you have ever committed, been charged with or convicted of a crime in any country. Please provide as many details as possible. Failure to include additional and sufficient details may result in slower processing.'

Unlike the question on ESTA, where you can tick 'no' for some crimes, the Canadian question doesn't seem to have a get-out, even if you are rehabilitated.



I was thinking of travelling to Canada this year and according to what I've read the start date for a conviction is from the end of the sentence not from the conviction date . I served a 3 year probation which completed in April 2008. This becomes spent according to how it reads after 10 years in 2018. As stated earlier in the thread Canada's ETA includes all convictions unlike the USA's ESTA. I contacted an immigration lawyer in Ontario (anonymously) and was told to apply from a TRV (Temporary Resident Visa). The legal fees + TRV would add up to something like $1,200!  Does Canada share criminal records with UK as it does with the USA? I'm thinking of applying for the ETA and seeing if it is accepted.

Hi candec,

If you got 3 years probation that finished in 2008, then that became spent years ago. Three years prison would be spent seven years from the end of the sentence, which should still be past by now. There's info on the Unlock website here that should be helpful. The Uk doesn't share criminal records with Canada. Hope that helps.
Yes thanks it does allay most worries. The sentence was deemed spent here in 2009. What worried me was Canada is saying they automatically allow entry into Canada for anyone with a conviction when 10 years has elapsed since the completion of the sentence not from the start of the sentence. 10 years won't have elapsed until 2018. As that would only be about 7 months away when I might be  going there I think I will apply for an ETA and see what happens. 


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