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Harmless
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I would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port.
Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway.
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JASB
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+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. Hi To be honest as far as the states is concerned I do not think it matters where you come from. All I can say is I am planning 2 trips, 1 to Brazil and 2nd to belize. I have decided to go via Portugal for No 1 and Mexico for No 2. This means I do not touch USA. I have heard rumours of a low risk sex offender providing a night by night stopover trip in the US and it being accepted BUT cannot remember his actual offence. Sorry but look forward to reading other replies.
Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.
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Yankee
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+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk.
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Harmless
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 110,
Visits: 391
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+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already.
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Harmless
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 110,
Visits: 391
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+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2, with all VISAs , ESTAs and what have you applied for in country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR?
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Harmless
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 110,
Visits: 391
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+x+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR? One could test the concept quickly by doing a Netherlands -> Ireland jaunt with Ireland undeclared, although the intent to do so while in the UK would constitute a crime.
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Zack
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR? One could test the concept quickly by doing a Netherlands -> Ireland jaunt with Ireland undeclared, although the intent to do so while in the UK would constitute a crime. Unless it's changed recently, you don't need an ESTA for land crossings. So possible to cross from Mexico or Canada without one.
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Zack
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 59,
Visits: 4.6K
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+x+x+x+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR? One could test the concept quickly by doing a Netherlands -> Ireland jaunt with Ireland undeclared, although the intent to do so while in the UK would constitute a crime. Unless it's changed recently, you don't need an ESTA for land crossings. So possible to cross from Mexico or Canada without one. Btw, i'd also expect at least Canada and USA to share info. I'd query if it was worth the risk, just by posting means if they check your internet history, they can tell you were considering bypassing notification.
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JASB
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 1.7K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR? One could test the concept quickly by doing a Netherlands -> Ireland jaunt with Ireland undeclared, although the intent to do so while in the UK would constitute a crime. Unless it's changed recently, you don't need an ESTA for land crossings. So possible to cross from Mexico or Canada without one. Btw, i'd also expect at least Canada and USA to share info. I'd query if it was worth the risk, just by posting means if they check your internet history, they can tell you were considering bypassing notification. Hi Zack, Though I am aware they could go to a Service provider and ask for your search history, that would need a legal reason i.e. offence suspected, and would take a long time. Again if you do not have an internet connection at home how do they check with the ISP? Before you say about a laptop's history then as long as you do not have any conditions on keeping it for inspection, and with all the data hackers about nowadays, it is quite reasonable for you you clear your history etc from the computer. Some software actually go to military security standard on removing data residues. Also so many individuals are ending up with some form of sex offence conviction some thing really serious would need to happen for them to undertake all the legal process. My opinion anyway.
Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------
This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 7.4K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI would quite like to know the pros and cons, and likelihood of success, of a sex offender travelling to the United States as a second port of call arranged upon the first port. Bearing in mind I'm currently abroad in Europe anyway. There's been lots of comment (including from myself) in other threads that relate to this topic. Bottom line is that the US will know you are coming as you will have either completed an ESTA application or if you have a valid one or visa from before your conviction, submitted Advanced Passenger Information to your airline. Both would have been screened by the US against their watch lists. The open question, therefore, is this : do the UK share information with the US about sex offenders that does not go through formal Interpol channels? For example, does the UK share any of it's own watch lists? If the answer is No, everything should be OK as the US would have no way of knowing about your conviction (you would simply be risking the wrath of your PPU for not notifying the travel in advance). Even though there are no formal legal agreements between the UK and US to share such information outside Interpol channels, it became very clear when our NCA went public with how they warn their counterparts elsewhere and vice versa that informal channels do exist. I am also aware of something known as 'embassy to embassy' communication in this regards. Regardless, you would assume that any informal notifications would relate to high risk people only as there is plenty of evidence on this forum (including myself) of people travelling outside the EU, notifying correctly and no Interpol notices being generated. My PPU made it quite clear that their objective is not to stop anyone from travelling unless they see a significant risk. The other open question for me is: When you declare you're going abroad (anywhere) do the UK police inform your first port of call only, or is it the entire world they inform (in as much as they have the relevant systems in place)? Let me be clear. I do not expect to be able to enter the US from the UK, i.e. as a first port of call. But I do, for reasons of Shengen, expect to be able to go from here in the Netherlands to Germany etc. As I have done. The question on the ESTA pertain only to "causing harm to others" with one's crime, and as mine was a crime of possession I would argue that I never did and the law here was preemptive. So the ESTA questions themselves don't damn me. It would be good to get these questions answered once and for all, given that, as you've said, the peripheral details have been discussed a lot already. There are a lot of related questions. E.g. (I'll invent a jargon here to save time) USSPC = "Undeclared spontaneous second port of call" (so I'm in country 1 legit, and on a whim I decide to enter country 2). - Am I allowed to enter an overseas territory (e.g. Gibraltar) as a USSPC? E.g. Spain to Gibraltar? - If I enter Ireland as a USSPC, would I be identified and asked to register on the Irish SOR? One could test the concept quickly by doing a Netherlands -> Ireland jaunt with Ireland undeclared, although the intent to do so while in the UK would constitute a crime. Unless it's changed recently, you don't need an ESTA for land crossings. So possible to cross from Mexico or Canada without one. Btw, i'd also expect at least Canada and USA to share info. I'd query if it was worth the risk, just by posting means if they check your internet history, they can tell you were considering bypassing notification. Hi Zack, Though I am aware they could go to a Service provider and ask for your search history, that would need a legal reason i.e. offence suspected, and would take a long time. Again if you do not have an internet connection at home how do they check with the ISP? Before you say about a laptop's history then as long as you do not have any conditions on keeping it for inspection, and with all the data hackers about nowadays, it is quite reasonable for you you clear your history etc from the computer. Some software actually go to military security standard on removing data residues. Also so many individuals are ending up with some form of sex offence conviction some thing really serious would need to happen for them to undertake all the legal process. My opinion anyway. What you say makes sense, but by now do you really expect sense to be applied here? In any case, restrictions often specify not deleting information, and not using or installing deletion software.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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