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Help with disclosure ?


Help with disclosure ?

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punter99
punter99
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khafka - 2 Jul 22 1:08 PM
punter99 - 2 Jul 22 10:12 AM
AB2014 - 30 Jun 22 9:40 AM
Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

It's great that things are looking positive, and I'm happy to have been helpful/supportive. Since you posted, the DWP have put me on a civil service employability course, so I'm not so pessimistic about how that will work out in the long term. So, thanks straight back at you! 👍

The government said some time ago, that they wanted to see more people with convictions in employment. I suspect their thinking was, that the country is going to need a lot more workers, to do the really crappy jobs in this country, now that all the East Europeans have gone back home. 

That seems to borne out, by the shortage of labour in many sectors of the economy. There are more vacancies than there are unemployed people nowadays. The civil service in particular, was going to lead the way on this, by being more open, to taking on people with convictions.

But there is one fly in the ointment. At no point, did the government differentiate between people with convictions and SO. They were happy to give the impression, that all people with convictions were welcome in the civil service, but whether they actually meant all people, or just the ones with convictions for 'morally acceptable' offences, e.g. drug dealers, burglars, muggers etc. is still not clear.

My understanding is that they will ask about convictions and that officially, the position is that being an SO does not automatically rule you out of the job, but that there will have to be a separate risk assessment and this may then act as a de facto bar to SO getting any civil service job. We will have to see, from the employment statistics, in a few years time, whether the number of SO in employment has actually gone up or not.

But it will make a good topic for conversation, when you go on the civil service employability course...



I've recently interviewed for a position which I felt went really well. At no point was I asked about any offences or whatnot. I spoke with my social worker a few days prior, that was just a general check in and I let them know I had an interview coming up for a job I think I'd quite enjoy and I reckon I'd be good at. It's nothing amazing but it's a night shift customer service rep for University accommodation. So basically I'll be at the reception desk and essentially there in case the students have any issues/need anything etc.

Now, as far as working I actually don't have any restrictions but I need to use common sense like applying to be a janitor in a school is obvious a bit silly. My social worker seemed a bit taken aback that I mentioned I never actually told my PPU that I'd applied/interviewing for this role as they felt they'd likely have to make a judgment call and potentially inform the company about my conviction as a safe guarding measure. I just advised that the students would all be 18+ and I have no restrictions regardless and considering I've now finished all my rehabilitation courses and essentially just running down the clock now I was surprised at their concern as surely they should feel comfortable that I can go back to being a productive member of society otherwise they wouldn't have signed off on my rehab completion..?

So needless to say, my optimism has been pretty shattered as I felt really strongly that I did well but I can't' help but feel my PPU will let them know what's up and that'll be that dumped again.

Educational establishments can be a bit tricky. Colleges often have mix of students, including 16/17 year olds, as well as over 18s. Universities are usually for over 18s, but they might share some facilities with a nearby higher education college, so it is not always clear cut. There is an example of a university disclosure policy here.

https://www2.uwe.ac.uk/services/Marketing/about-us/Human%20Resources/DBS_Disclosure_Policy.pdf

If the University do not think that a DBS is required for your job, then it should not be an issue. Their HR department should have checked the rules, before advertising the job.

What the PPU will make of it, is another matter. There is a section here which might, or might not, cover your role.

"Student Services department: Staff working on an individual basis primarily with students who might fall within the definition of regulated activity for adults or children may require an enhanced disclosure depending on the nature of the role. E.g. counsellors, mentors, student support workers, needs assessors, staff in the wellbeing area. Other SSD staff and student advisers who may, in the course of providing a service to all students, also meet individually with students who are classed as ‘vulnerable adults’ due to the activities they receive."

I think that if the PPU wanted to, they could stretch this definition out, to include your job, by describing you as a student support worker, who might have unsupervised contact with vulnerable adults. Although uni students, are over the age of 18, they could still be considered vulnerable young people.  

As for whether you should tell the PPU, I think the fact that the social worker knows, is enough for now. If the social worker decides to tell the PPU, then it could be awkward, but as I said at the start, it is for the University to decide if you are suitable for the job, not the PPU. The University is perfectly capable of doing their own risk assessment, if they think the job needs a risk assessment. It not for the PPU to tell them, if a risk assessment is required or not.

However, some PPUs might think it is their job to do that, and so they might try to interfere, but it will depend on the individual PPU and what they are like.

Edited
3 Years Ago by punter99
xDanx
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khafka - 2 Jul 22 1:08 PM
punter99 - 2 Jul 22 10:12 AM
AB2014 - 30 Jun 22 9:40 AM
Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

It's great that things are looking positive, and I'm happy to have been helpful/supportive. Since you posted, the DWP have put me on a civil service employability course, so I'm not so pessimistic about how that will work out in the long term. So, thanks straight back at you! 👍

The government said some time ago, that they wanted to see more people with convictions in employment. I suspect their thinking was, that the country is going to need a lot more workers, to do the really crappy jobs in this country, now that all the East Europeans have gone back home. 

That seems to borne out, by the shortage of labour in many sectors of the economy. There are more vacancies than there are unemployed people nowadays. The civil service in particular, was going to lead the way on this, by being more open, to taking on people with convictions.

But there is one fly in the ointment. At no point, did the government differentiate between people with convictions and SO. They were happy to give the impression, that all people with convictions were welcome in the civil service, but whether they actually meant all people, or just the ones with convictions for 'morally acceptable' offences, e.g. drug dealers, burglars, muggers etc. is still not clear.

My understanding is that they will ask about convictions and that officially, the position is that being an SO does not automatically rule you out of the job, but that there will have to be a separate risk assessment and this may then act as a de facto bar to SO getting any civil service job. We will have to see, from the employment statistics, in a few years time, whether the number of SO in employment has actually gone up or not.

But it will make a good topic for conversation, when you go on the civil service employability course...



I've recently interviewed for a position which I felt went really well. At no point was I asked about any offences or whatnot. I spoke with my social worker a few days prior, that was just a general check in and I let them know I had an interview coming up for a job I think I'd quite enjoy and I reckon I'd be good at. It's nothing amazing but it's a night shift customer service rep for University accommodation. So basically I'll be at the reception desk and essentially there in case the students have any issues/need anything etc.

Now, as far as working I actually don't have any restrictions but I need to use common sense like applying to be a janitor in a school is obvious a bit silly. My social worker seemed a bit taken aback that I mentioned I never actually told my PPU that I'd applied/interviewing for this role as they felt they'd likely have to make a judgment call and potentially inform the company about my conviction as a safe guarding measure. I just advised that the students would all be 18+ and I have no restrictions regardless and considering I've now finished all my rehabilitation courses and essentially just running down the clock now I was surprised at their concern as surely they should feel comfortable that I can go back to being a productive member of society otherwise they wouldn't have signed off on my rehab completion..?

So needless to say, my optimism has been pretty shattered as I felt really strongly that I did well but I can't' help but feel my PPU will let them know what's up and that'll be that dumped again.

Like you said, you have no restrictions which prohibit you from working with or around under 18s. Given the students will in fact be above 18, they have no justification to inform anyone. Notification requirements again also do not require you to inform police of employer details or even when you wish to apply. This is just them trying to force information which you are not obligated to give.

Stay strong and only share what is required

khafka
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punter99 - 2 Jul 22 10:12 AM
AB2014 - 30 Jun 22 9:40 AM
Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

It's great that things are looking positive, and I'm happy to have been helpful/supportive. Since you posted, the DWP have put me on a civil service employability course, so I'm not so pessimistic about how that will work out in the long term. So, thanks straight back at you! 👍

The government said some time ago, that they wanted to see more people with convictions in employment. I suspect their thinking was, that the country is going to need a lot more workers, to do the really crappy jobs in this country, now that all the East Europeans have gone back home. 

That seems to borne out, by the shortage of labour in many sectors of the economy. There are more vacancies than there are unemployed people nowadays. The civil service in particular, was going to lead the way on this, by being more open, to taking on people with convictions.

But there is one fly in the ointment. At no point, did the government differentiate between people with convictions and SO. They were happy to give the impression, that all people with convictions were welcome in the civil service, but whether they actually meant all people, or just the ones with convictions for 'morally acceptable' offences, e.g. drug dealers, burglars, muggers etc. is still not clear.

My understanding is that they will ask about convictions and that officially, the position is that being an SO does not automatically rule you out of the job, but that there will have to be a separate risk assessment and this may then act as a de facto bar to SO getting any civil service job. We will have to see, from the employment statistics, in a few years time, whether the number of SO in employment has actually gone up or not.

But it will make a good topic for conversation, when you go on the civil service employability course...



I've recently interviewed for a position which I felt went really well. At no point was I asked about any offences or whatnot. I spoke with my social worker a few days prior, that was just a general check in and I let them know I had an interview coming up for a job I think I'd quite enjoy and I reckon I'd be good at. It's nothing amazing but it's a night shift customer service rep for University accommodation. So basically I'll be at the reception desk and essentially there in case the students have any issues/need anything etc.

Now, as far as working I actually don't have any restrictions but I need to use common sense like applying to be a janitor in a school is obvious a bit silly. My social worker seemed a bit taken aback that I mentioned I never actually told my PPU that I'd applied/interviewing for this role as they felt they'd likely have to make a judgment call and potentially inform the company about my conviction as a safe guarding measure. I just advised that the students would all be 18+ and I have no restrictions regardless and considering I've now finished all my rehabilitation courses and essentially just running down the clock now I was surprised at their concern as surely they should feel comfortable that I can go back to being a productive member of society otherwise they wouldn't have signed off on my rehab completion..?

So needless to say, my optimism has been pretty shattered as I felt really strongly that I did well but I can't' help but feel my PPU will let them know what's up and that'll be that dumped again.

punter99
punter99
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AB2014 - 30 Jun 22 9:40 AM
Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

It's great that things are looking positive, and I'm happy to have been helpful/supportive. Since you posted, the DWP have put me on a civil service employability course, so I'm not so pessimistic about how that will work out in the long term. So, thanks straight back at you! 👍

The government said some time ago, that they wanted to see more people with convictions in employment. I suspect their thinking was, that the country is going to need a lot more workers, to do the really crappy jobs in this country, now that all the East Europeans have gone back home. 

That seems to borne out, by the shortage of labour in many sectors of the economy. There are more vacancies than there are unemployed people nowadays. The civil service in particular, was going to lead the way on this, by being more open, to taking on people with convictions.

But there is one fly in the ointment. At no point, did the government differentiate between people with convictions and SO. They were happy to give the impression, that all people with convictions were welcome in the civil service, but whether they actually meant all people, or just the ones with convictions for 'morally acceptable' offences, e.g. drug dealers, burglars, muggers etc. is still not clear.

My understanding is that they will ask about convictions and that officially, the position is that being an SO does not automatically rule you out of the job, but that there will have to be a separate risk assessment and this may then act as a de facto bar to SO getting any civil service job. We will have to see, from the employment statistics, in a few years time, whether the number of SO in employment has actually gone up or not.

But it will make a good topic for conversation, when you go on the civil service employability course...



AB2014
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Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

It's great that things are looking positive, and I'm happy to have been helpful/supportive. Since you posted, the DWP have put me on a civil service employability course, so I'm not so pessimistic about how that will work out in the long term. So, thanks straight back at you! 👍

=========================================================================================================

If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

xDanx
xDanx
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Mark15788 - 28 Jun 22 5:45 PM
Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week. I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life. Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?

This is great news and I hope all goes well with the new job!
I am doing well, enjoying the break from a lot of online training I have been doing over the last couple of months. Hopefully this will help me secure employment and thanks to the thread, I also have more understanding on disclosures.

Mark15788
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Update - I have had the contract through, start date of Friday with me starting properly next week.

I am very pleased I have found a position where I can move forward with my life.

Just to thank everyone who replied and commented …. xDanX, Was, Richie, AB2014 and JASB. I hope you are all well and been enjoying the on and off sun?
Mark15788
Mark15788
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Just a further update. My officer just rang. Talked it through. He has no concerns or any wish to disclose. So hopefully contract will come Monday through email.
Mark15788
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Dan don’t worry about it we all get like that. Hope you are keeping well anyway?
xDanx
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Mark15788 - 24 Jun 22 7:05 PM
Dan…I think you may have read Unlock wrong, the link says this - “ You only have to disclose your record to an employer if they ask you. Many employers ask at some point and if your convictions are unspent, you legally need to disclose them.”Which means, you only have to disclose if asked. The legally required bit is if you are asked and there still unspent. Just to clarify some other bits - 1. There isn’t even a basic DBS requirement. 2. It’s full remote, no access to anyone as I’m on my own at home. 3. The point I was making is, nothing interferes with my SHPO, and the police have no legal powers, however, that doesn’t prevent them in overstepping the mark, that could cost me my job if say I start and don’t say anything and six months down the line they did a home visit and asked about employment and disagreed. How could I then stop them? That’s why I said isn’t it more logical just to run it passed then first. 4. This leads into communication. I’m managed by a neighbourhood PC which is how my area does it due to my risk, however as you know they work shifts, so it’s hard to get In touch and when you have no other communication methods bar a mobile number and no access to another officer, how they hell do they expect you to get any basic question answered?

Yes it would seem I have, first thing I saw was " you legally have to disclose" but I never saw it say "if asked" after going through the site more it confirms this. I blame the warm weather BigGrin

GO


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