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Second Interview...


Second Interview...

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Mr W
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NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Did you 'no comment' everything in the end? The tricky thing about the charges is usually people plead guilty and then can only offer mitigation during sentencing. (Unless there is something there you can 110% prove you’re not guilty of. Being found guilty after a not guilty plea pretty much guarantees time behind bars).

I’d be careful about talking about being involved in a chat and ‘sharing’, stuff you don’t want to accidentally trigger another charge (distribution is a different charge (worse) than viewing). Although all the talking might be finished by now.

My suggestion would be to talk to a therapist (ideally StopSO accredited) and engage with Lucy Faithful Foundation. Not only is that a proactive step which will help with your mitigation but it helps to be able to talk about all this, as you have done here, because it seems like you have a lot to talk about. Especially if the prosecution does mention male and female images in court.

It may be a bumpy, painful and SLOW ride ahead but many of us on this thread have got through it and you will too.




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NeverAgain
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Mr W - 22 Jun 23 10:01 PM
NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Did you 'no comment' everything in the end? The tricky thing about the charges is usually people plead guilty and then can only offer mitigation during sentencing. (Unless there is something there you can 110% prove you’re not guilty of. Being found guilty after a not guilty plea pretty much guarantees time behind bars).

I’d be careful about talking about being involved in a chat and ‘sharing’, stuff you don’t want to accidentally trigger another charge (distribution is a different charge (worse) than viewing). Although all the talking might be finished by now.

My suggestion would be to talk to a therapist (ideally StopSO accredited) and engage with Lucy Faithful Foundation. Not only is that a proactive step which will help with your mitigation but it helps to be able to talk about all this, as you have done here, because it seems like you have a lot to talk about. Especially if the prosecution does mention male and female images in court.

It may be a bumpy, painful and SLOW ride ahead but many of us on this thread have got through it and you will too.



Yeah, it was completely 'no comment' (on advice of the duty solicitor).

I never actually shared anything, and it was never mentioned during the interview, so I don't think they're trying to do me for that.

I already went to a therapist through StopSO. I, being shockingly naïve, didn't realise it was specially a sex offender thing (I just assumed StopSO was one long acronym, not just the word Stop then S O), I went to work through all the anxiety (honestly been an issue long before this, just really exacerbated by the arrest). Really enjoyed the therapy and it made me confront my issues with porn and sex.

Thanks for your input.
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Lineofduty - 22 Jun 23 10:02 AM
NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Firstly, when the charge comes through you must INSIST your solicitor obtains an independent copy of the image they extracted from your phone NOT a copy of the extraction report.  These are NOT the same.
The police extraction report will ONLY detail what they want you to see in their prosecution. That's how they work.
That copy image could be your best defence and source of "who found what when" and I would suggest that your solicitor finds an independent forensic expert (yes, i know more cost)  to examine it on your behalf
to give you/solicitor the best defence of minimising any sentence or even downgrading it to a community order and/or suspended custodial.

Secondly, why did they come for you at work. What was the offence? Were you just part of a sting operation e.g. illegal porn downloads.  If there is no online contact offence then how would they know to come for you?

I doubt I'll be able to pay for anything at all. Though the 'accessible' stuff on my laptop makes no sense to me - I've got no idea what would've been on there (it was used purely for writing essays and then music production - it basically never went online and definitely wasn't used for looking at any kind of sexual material...legal or otherwise).

They came to my house, but I just happened to have left for work early that day. My mum had to tell them where I worked.

Don't know what specifically triggered the arrest, but my sister mentioned that social services said something about somebody else being arrested was well (and a question was asked in the interview akin to 'did somebody make you download them' - though that might just be a default question). No idea who that would be.

One of the things they said I apparently searched for sounded like a username - I'm wondering if they're trying to link me to somebody else. It was one of those default-generated-sounding names like 'CosmicTurtle29' or some nonsense like that. I still don't have a clue what they were on about.
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NeverAgain - 23 Jun 23 2:17 AM
Lineofduty - 22 Jun 23 10:02 AM
NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Firstly, when the charge comes through you must INSIST your solicitor obtains an independent copy of the image they extracted from your phone NOT a copy of the extraction report.  These are NOT the same.
The police extraction report will ONLY detail what they want you to see in their prosecution. That's how they work.
That copy image could be your best defence and source of "who found what when" and I would suggest that your solicitor finds an independent forensic expert (yes, i know more cost)  to examine it on your behalf
to give you/solicitor the best defence of minimising any sentence or even downgrading it to a community order and/or suspended custodial.

Secondly, why did they come for you at work. What was the offence? Were you just part of a sting operation e.g. illegal porn downloads.  If there is no online contact offence then how would they know to come for you?

I doubt I'll be able to pay for anything at all. Though the 'accessible' stuff on my laptop makes no sense to me - I've got no idea what would've been on there (it was used purely for writing essays and then music production - it basically never went online and definitely wasn't used for looking at any kind of sexual material...legal or otherwise).

They came to my house, but I just happened to have left for work early that day. My mum had to tell them where I worked.

Don't know what specifically triggered the arrest, but my sister mentioned that social services said something about somebody else being arrested was well (and a question was asked in the interview akin to 'did somebody make you download them' - though that might just be a default question). No idea who that would be.

One of the things they said I apparently searched for sounded like a username - I'm wondering if they're trying to link me to somebody else. It was one of those default-generated-sounding names like 'CosmicTurtle29' or some nonsense like that. I still don't have a clue what they were on about.

Earlier on, you were talking about a phone conversation and now they have found images on your laptop too?

From what you have said, there was a phone conversation with a group of others, where images were downloaded, then deleted straight away? So that might explain the inaccessible cat A and B images. It might also explain where they found the search terms, which you have no knowledge of. Those words might have been mentioned, by another person, in the group chat that took place, which would explain why they were also found on your phone.

You do need to get hold of a copy of the chat transcript, to find who said what, because that is very important to your defence. As for the accessible cat C images on your laptop, they may not be connected to the download on your phone at all. It might be that the police have found something that is borderline cat C on the laptop and they are just trying to make out it is worse than it actually is.

It sounds as if you do need a specialist forensic report, because you need to know what evidence the police actually have. As you are unemployed, you may well qualify for legal aid, but I don't know if it will also cover a specialist report or not.
 
Once you have the charges letter, you need to sit down with your solicitor and be completely honest with them about what you did. Don't worry that they will grass you up to the police, if you admit to doing something. Anything you say to them is protected by legal confidentiality. The solicitor has to know exactly what happened, if they are going to defend you. You can also ask them about legal aid and getting a specialist forensic report, at the same time. 
Edited
Last Year by punter99
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NerverAgain
You mentioned you have read other posts, so you may already know that I was done for images.
Punter99 is correct and you need to be asking your solicitor a lot of questions, my advice is you word those questions right or else even your solicitor can "bend the rules" too. If you are unemployed, then you should be able to claim Legal Aid for solicitors to represent you. Do some research with the firm representing you, are they credited for these types of offense? do they understand the Smith court of appeal that guide how SHPO's are handled? if you are not happy with your current firm then contact a few others who do specialize in these types of offense and see if they could take over.

While my case was on going I asked my solicitor many times if I can see what evidence is found, I was always told "absolutely yes". They never did show me any paper work of any kind until I "asked for it" I finally got the forensic report 2 years after being sentenced, I was quite shocked with what they claimed to have found and where it was found, as much like yourself it was nothing I had seen before but they also claimed ALL my devices "tested positive" which I know to be 2000% untrue. Yet, because I was never given the paper work, I was never able to dispute everything being said.

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punter99 - 23 Jun 23 11:04 AM
NeverAgain - 23 Jun 23 2:17 AM
Lineofduty - 22 Jun 23 10:02 AM
NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Firstly, when the charge comes through you must INSIST your solicitor obtains an independent copy of the image they extracted from your phone NOT a copy of the extraction report.  These are NOT the same.
The police extraction report will ONLY detail what they want you to see in their prosecution. That's how they work.
That copy image could be your best defence and source of "who found what when" and I would suggest that your solicitor finds an independent forensic expert (yes, i know more cost)  to examine it on your behalf
to give you/solicitor the best defence of minimising any sentence or even downgrading it to a community order and/or suspended custodial.

Secondly, why did they come for you at work. What was the offence? Were you just part of a sting operation e.g. illegal porn downloads.  If there is no online contact offence then how would they know to come for you?

I doubt I'll be able to pay for anything at all. Though the 'accessible' stuff on my laptop makes no sense to me - I've got no idea what would've been on there (it was used purely for writing essays and then music production - it basically never went online and definitely wasn't used for looking at any kind of sexual material...legal or otherwise).

They came to my house, but I just happened to have left for work early that day. My mum had to tell them where I worked.

Don't know what specifically triggered the arrest, but my sister mentioned that social services said something about somebody else being arrested was well (and a question was asked in the interview akin to 'did somebody make you download them' - though that might just be a default question). No idea who that would be.

One of the things they said I apparently searched for sounded like a username - I'm wondering if they're trying to link me to somebody else. It was one of those default-generated-sounding names like 'CosmicTurtle29' or some nonsense like that. I still don't have a clue what they were on about.

Earlier on, you were talking about a phone conversation and now they have found images on your laptop too?

From what you have said, there was a phone conversation with a group of others, where images were downloaded, then deleted straight away? So that might explain the inaccessible cat A and B images. It might also explain where they found the search terms, which you have no knowledge of. Those words might have been mentioned, by another person, in the group chat that took place, which would explain why they were also found on your phone.

You do need to get hold of a copy of the chat transcript, to find who said what, because that is very important to your defence. As for the accessible cat C images on your laptop, they may not be connected to the download on your phone at all. It might be that the police have found something that is borderline cat C on the laptop and they are just trying to make out it is worse than it actually is.

It sounds as if you do need a specialist forensic report, because you need to know what evidence the police actually have. As you are unemployed, you may well qualify for legal aid, but I don't know if it will also cover a specialist report or not.
 
Once you have the charges letter, you need to sit down with your solicitor and be completely honest with them about what you did. Don't worry that they will grass you up to the police, if you admit to doing something. Anything you say to them is protected by legal confidentiality. The solicitor has to know exactly what happened, if they are going to defend you. You can also ask them about legal aid and getting a specialist forensic report, at the same time. 

Not quite, it wasn't 'a group of others' it was several individual people. Something which I'd been doing without incident since I was about 19.

I'm actually still waiting for the solicitor to get in touch with me because I never got his details the other day - he's got my email and said he'll make contact soon.

I think what was on the laptop was actually from when I'd plugged the phone in to backup other stuff, though they didn't describe what it was and I've no idea what it could be.

Thanks for your advice, I'm going to read up on the stuff you've mentioned and just keep waiting for a letter from CPS. I'm expecting one count of 'making' for each of the three categories, then maybe another one or two for the 'prohibited' and whatever else they feel like (hopefully it's actually just the accessible ones, but I'm not getting my hopes up for something so unrealistic).

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NeverAgain - 24 Jun 23 8:14 PM
punter99 - 23 Jun 23 11:04 AM
NeverAgain - 23 Jun 23 2:17 AM
Lineofduty - 22 Jun 23 10:02 AM
NeverAgain - 22 Jun 23 7:50 AM
punter99 - 21 Jun 23 3:28 PM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/your-defence/forensic-evidence/
https://www.pcdsolicitors.co.uk/advice-news/latest-news/not-guilty-verdict-in-indecent-images-case/

First of all, is this a new device or is it second hand? Could anyone else have had access to it apart from you? The dates when these images were downloaded or when the searches were done will be important. As in the case above, its possible the images could have been downloaded accidentally, as part of a bulk download, but proving it is another matter.

Since at least one image was accessible, then they may only charge for those, and the search terms are being mentioned, are to prove to a court that it was deliberate not accidental. The other thing to consider is whether the Cat C is on the borderline of being illegal. Did your solicitor give you any advice?

Thanks for the response.

The solicitor didn't really say much beyond just wait for a letter from CPS.

I don't think there's any point trying to dispute whether or not it was me who downloaded it, but it genuinely was downloaded as part of massive bulk folders - though I don't know how I prove that.

The dates they gave me are pretty much exactly just the length of time I had the phone, which doesn't really make any sense, because it's not like I just bought a new phone and started downloading indecent images immediately. Plus the search terms are really weird (I don't recognise any of them) and I'm struggling to see how they'd really prove anything - especially as anything illegal that was downloaded wasn't from a website (and certainly not Google).

I suspect my defence will have to lean on the fact that everything was sent to me by anonymous strangers and there was little way to know what I'd actually downloaded until it was already on the phone (I'm pretty confident that anything I actually saw that was illegal was deleted). I just wanted to share porn with some random guys - I didn't think they'd send me *that*. Also that I never went to any real lengths to source such images - I never did anything like accessing the dark web, or paying for it, or even worse actually talking to anyone under 18. Plus, the fact it was in a 'hidden folder' can be explained as 'it's a feature that comes with the phone' and had lots of legal porn mixed in, and that I'm bisexual and not out of the closet, so there's a lot of gay porn on there that I wouldn't want my friends or family to see if they pinched my phone - same reason as to why I was contacting random guys on the internet. (None of this sounds like a court will give a damn though...but it is at least true.)

Hopefully a lot of the numbers are made up by duplicates (something which they even told me could be the case) and as you say, best case scenario is they charge me with the one Cat C and the prohibited image (I didn't know prohibited images were illegal until I was told during the first interview - I think they're legal in America, so I may have been falsely reassured by Google).

I can't stop thinking about the sheer number of things they found - I really was expecting to go in and just be grilled over the password I threw in the bin about a year ago. I was shocked when the solicitor told me there were 'over two hundred of the most serious category', then frankly appalled when the police later described them. At least I'm not being accused of any contact offences.

I'm desperately trying to mentally prepare myself for 10 years on the SOR and I've been reading about other people's SHPOs and thinking how hard that's going to make everything. I've already been unemployed since they nabbed me at work 17 months ago, now it's looking like I'm not going to get back into the real world for actual years (I really thought this was going to be over until yesterday's interview - I was browsing Indeed and thinking about different jobs I could apply for...that's gone now).

Really don't want to go to prison. I thought I was ready for that when I was first arrested, but that was a very long time ago now. Frankly, I'm just scared...hence that massive rambling message.

Firstly, when the charge comes through you must INSIST your solicitor obtains an independent copy of the image they extracted from your phone NOT a copy of the extraction report.  These are NOT the same.
The police extraction report will ONLY detail what they want you to see in their prosecution. That's how they work.
That copy image could be your best defence and source of "who found what when" and I would suggest that your solicitor finds an independent forensic expert (yes, i know more cost)  to examine it on your behalf
to give you/solicitor the best defence of minimising any sentence or even downgrading it to a community order and/or suspended custodial.

Secondly, why did they come for you at work. What was the offence? Were you just part of a sting operation e.g. illegal porn downloads.  If there is no online contact offence then how would they know to come for you?

I doubt I'll be able to pay for anything at all. Though the 'accessible' stuff on my laptop makes no sense to me - I've got no idea what would've been on there (it was used purely for writing essays and then music production - it basically never went online and definitely wasn't used for looking at any kind of sexual material...legal or otherwise).

They came to my house, but I just happened to have left for work early that day. My mum had to tell them where I worked.

Don't know what specifically triggered the arrest, but my sister mentioned that social services said something about somebody else being arrested was well (and a question was asked in the interview akin to 'did somebody make you download them' - though that might just be a default question). No idea who that would be.

One of the things they said I apparently searched for sounded like a username - I'm wondering if they're trying to link me to somebody else. It was one of those default-generated-sounding names like 'CosmicTurtle29' or some nonsense like that. I still don't have a clue what they were on about.

Earlier on, you were talking about a phone conversation and now they have found images on your laptop too?

From what you have said, there was a phone conversation with a group of others, where images were downloaded, then deleted straight away? So that might explain the inaccessible cat A and B images. It might also explain where they found the search terms, which you have no knowledge of. Those words might have been mentioned, by another person, in the group chat that took place, which would explain why they were also found on your phone.

You do need to get hold of a copy of the chat transcript, to find who said what, because that is very important to your defence. As for the accessible cat C images on your laptop, they may not be connected to the download on your phone at all. It might be that the police have found something that is borderline cat C on the laptop and they are just trying to make out it is worse than it actually is.

It sounds as if you do need a specialist forensic report, because you need to know what evidence the police actually have. As you are unemployed, you may well qualify for legal aid, but I don't know if it will also cover a specialist report or not.
 
Once you have the charges letter, you need to sit down with your solicitor and be completely honest with them about what you did. Don't worry that they will grass you up to the police, if you admit to doing something. Anything you say to them is protected by legal confidentiality. The solicitor has to know exactly what happened, if they are going to defend you. You can also ask them about legal aid and getting a specialist forensic report, at the same time. 

Not quite, it wasn't 'a group of others' it was several individual people. Something which I'd been doing without incident since I was about 19.

I'm actually still waiting for the solicitor to get in touch with me because I never got his details the other day - he's got my email and said he'll make contact soon.

I think what was on the laptop was actually from when I'd plugged the phone in to backup other stuff, though they didn't describe what it was and I've no idea what it could be.

Thanks for your advice, I'm going to read up on the stuff you've mentioned and just keep waiting for a letter from CPS. I'm expecting one count of 'making' for each of the three categories, then maybe another one or two for the 'prohibited' and whatever else they feel like (hopefully it's actually just the accessible ones, but I'm not getting my hopes up for something so unrealistic).

It certainly sounds as if they are investigating someone else, possibly for distributing the images, and that they have identified your username and ip address from a chat logged on that person's phone. If they were asking, did someone else make you download them, then that will be vital for your defence, because if you can establish from the conversation records that you didn't know that what you were downloading was illegal, then a jury are more likely to be persuaded that it was accidental.

As for the cat C and prohibited images, that could be anything from the internet cache, even just a banner advert or a pop up. Often it is stuff that you wouldn't even think of as illegal, but when the police look at it, with their suspicious minds, they can twist things, to make it sound dodgy. If you don't know what it could be, then you definately need to get your solicitor to find out.
NeverAgain
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NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

Just got an email from the police officer. They're not charging me with any of the inaccessible stuff (thank fuck), but I'm going to be charged for the two Cat Cs and the prohibited image that were supposedly on my laptop.

I'm really quite confused at this point, I've got no idea what Category C even looks like or what they could've found that counts as Cat C or 'prohibited'. It's suddenly all gone from incredibly serious 'I hope I don't get sent to prison' to 'why are they even bothering to persue this anymore'.

That laptop never went on the internet except for software updates for various bits of music production software. The only thing I can think is as I said previously - I plugged my phone in, opened it, saw something a bit dodgy and deleted the whole folder. They've likely found some cached version or whatever technical macguffin and they're hoping they can force me to plead guilty in court by threatening me with the inaccessible stuff (basically a no smoke without fire kind of approach).

Going to contact the solicitor tomorrow, though I suspect they'll tell me to get back in touch once the actual charge letter comes through.

Thanks for everyone's help, you've made me feel much better about this dreadful situation.
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Hi

There is a wonderful bit of software called "Privzer" that I used to securely clean my harddrive periodically. This is not because I view stuff but just to ensure files are completely removed! I was introduced to it whilst working for a "vehicle replacement" business a few years ago.

yes all my OM's was/is aware i use it and I have explained the reason why.

As long as it does not break the rules of your conditions then it is a great tool.

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

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NeverAgain - 26 Sep 23 1:48 AM
NeverAgain - 21 Jun 23 12:35 PM
Bad news.

Just got back from the interview and they say they've found hundreds of 'inaccessible images'.

About two hundred Cat A, and about as many Cat B and Cat C.

Only maybe two or three were actually 'accessible' and they were a Cat C and a 'prohibited' image.

No idea what 'inaccessible' means. It's either that I've deleted them, which might help my defence when this (now inevitably) goes to court, or it just means they were in that Samsung Secure Folder (which they've apparently managed to open) and weren't deleted.

They read out a few examples of what they found and it was incredibly grim, but I didn't recognise anything they described, so at least there may be a defence that I could've inadvertantly downloaded them along with lots of other stuff and never actually looked at them.

There were also a list of search terms which I didn't recognise, so not really sure where that fits in. One of them was literally 'pedophile', which is hardly evidence, and another was straight-up just 'kiddy porn' - why would I have ever searched that?

I suppose there's nothing I can do now except wait (again).

I've been told to probably expect a letter from CPS detailing the actual charges...which will almost certainly take many many more months.

Thanks for everyone's support, but I really don't think there's anything to be done in the short term now. Just hope I'm not actually sent to prison over this.

Just got an email from the police officer. They're not charging me with any of the inaccessible stuff (thank fuck), but I'm going to be charged for the two Cat Cs and the prohibited image that were supposedly on my laptop.

I'm really quite confused at this point, I've got no idea what Category C even looks like or what they could've found that counts as Cat C or 'prohibited'. It's suddenly all gone from incredibly serious 'I hope I don't get sent to prison' to 'why are they even bothering to persue this anymore'.

That laptop never went on the internet except for software updates for various bits of music production software. The only thing I can think is as I said previously - I plugged my phone in, opened it, saw something a bit dodgy and deleted the whole folder. They've likely found some cached version or whatever technical macguffin and they're hoping they can force me to plead guilty in court by threatening me with the inaccessible stuff (basically a no smoke without fire kind of approach).

Going to contact the solicitor tomorrow, though I suspect they'll tell me to get back in touch once the actual charge letter comes through.

Thanks for everyone's help, you've made me feel much better about this dreadful situation.

When they took my devices, I had another computer which was only in my possession for around 2 weeks before I got the knock at my door. The hard drive I used for that PC came from a Virgin Tivo TV box. My children used it for when they came over to my place for the weekend and was mainly used for youtube and the odd web based game that they found and played. Other than installing windows and a few other problems like firefox, I had not touched this computer and was planning to give it to my kids to take home.
The investigating officer called me one morning and told me that ALL my devices tested positive for stuff BUT would not go in to detail telling me what was found and where. Later in 2019 I managed to obtain a forensic report which only states internet artifacts were found but that is all. I am 1000% sure Police did something to fabricate what they found on that device to prevent me getting it back. But proving it after 6 years seems impossible.

In your situation though, although it may only be two cat c's and a prohibited image, I would be asking for further details. where were they found? Full description of images? (since they say showing the actual image is illegal) Perhaps even ask your solicitor to carry out there own analysis but may incur a cost.

I know of someone in a similar situation as yourself and he was offered a caution which lasted 2 years and, avoided having to deal with the whole court process. I believe a SHPO was handed to him but only for 2 years and had to sign the SOR also for 2 years.




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