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Second Interview...


Second Interview...

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JASB
JASB
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NeverAgain - 25 Oct 23 5:09 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses. I've had a horrible couple of days, but the logical side of my brain is finally taking over control again.

Sent a message to a solicitor that was recommended by a friend of my mum's last night and they rang me at quarter to nine this morning. They clearly knew what they were talking about and really set me at ease, they said I should be able to get legal aid and they can represent me so I think I'm in good hands.

Still absolutely bricking it, and this has come at about the worst possible time. My mum (who I still live with because I've never been financially able to move out) is about to lose her job due to medical reasons around the same time as my court date, and my aunt (her sister) is nearing the end of her life because of stage four cancer - just found out today that she's also had a stroke...the doctors say she may only have a few weeks left.

I don't believe in karma or fate or anything like that, but I can't help but feel that everything in the universe that can go wrong is choosing the absolute worst time to do it.

My mental health is in the gutter. Not felt this bad for this long since I was arrested. I won't discuss the details of the case until I've got a verdict, but honestly at this point I just want this over. The path of least resistance seems to be to not fight it and hope the sentence (less the 30% discount) is something I can manage.

Thank you, everyone.

Hi
I believe the majority of us face the mental and emotional issues you are going through now (in regard to he offence) but if you focus on yourself as the priority, you will not only find yourself in a better place, but also able to help others that are close to you better.

Do not think you WILL get the 30% discount automatically, I pleaded guilty at my hearing as basically the charges were reduced to only what was essentially true; I had paid for the sexual services of a female under 18. All the actual details in my favor didn't matter to the Justice system as I only received 20% discount.

I would consider documenting the facts as you know them and present them to you solicitor. Their motivation and experience will provide the various options to you; however it will only be up to you to decide as they will not take responsibility for any outcome and you will find it hard to prove they are at fault if their advise is wrong.

You have a busy period in front of you so look at improving your "wellbeing" as a priority, this will help you I can promise that. 

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Steadfast
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NeverAgain - 25 Oct 23 5:09 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses. I've had a horrible couple of days, but the logical side of my brain is finally taking over control again.

Sent a message to a solicitor that was recommended by a friend of my mum's last night and they rang me at quarter to nine this morning. They clearly knew what they were talking about and really set me at ease, they said I should be able to get legal aid and they can represent me so I think I'm in good hands.

Still absolutely bricking it, and this has come at about the worst possible time. My mum (who I still live with because I've never been financially able to move out) is about to lose her job due to medical reasons around the same time as my court date, and my aunt (her sister) is nearing the end of her life because of stage four cancer - just found out today that she's also had a stroke...the doctors say she may only have a few weeks left.

I don't believe in karma or fate or anything like that, but I can't help but feel that everything in the universe that can go wrong is choosing the absolute worst time to do it.

My mental health is in the gutter. Not felt this bad for this long since I was arrested. I won't discuss the details of the case until I've got a verdict, but honestly at this point I just want this over. The path of least resistance seems to be to not fight it and hope the sentence (less the 30% discount) is something I can manage.

Thank you, everyone.

Sorry to hear about your issues, but just remember that there would never be a good time for this.

You talk about the path of least resistance - be careful with that. It makes sense right now, but if you know something not to be right, you will kick yourself further down the road if you plead guilty to something you are not guilty of. Also, remember a guilty plea is binding - you can't turn around at a later date and change this. I had charges that (as my  solicitor put it) 'you can't fight', but were categorically not true - due to me going to  trial I got the maximum community sentence. It wasn't nice and lasted a lot longer than if I capitulated, but I am pleased now that I held firm. It has also helped in a few situations since.

And the concept of Karma is a thing - don't discredit that. Even if you have been treated harshly right now, and no matter what people may think of you now, doing good things can help address any negativity people may feel against you in the future.

I won't lie, the next few months will be hell but you will get through it. There is support (https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/get-help) - call the Samaritans for a chat, they won't judge.
NeverAgain
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Thanks everyone for the responses. I've had a horrible couple of days, but the logical side of my brain is finally taking over control again.

Sent a message to a solicitor that was recommended by a friend of my mum's last night and they rang me at quarter to nine this morning. They clearly knew what they were talking about and really set me at ease, they said I should be able to get legal aid and they can represent me so I think I'm in good hands.

Still absolutely bricking it, and this has come at about the worst possible time. My mum (who I still live with because I've never been financially able to move out) is about to lose her job due to medical reasons around the same time as my court date, and my aunt (her sister) is nearing the end of her life because of stage four cancer - just found out today that she's also had a stroke...the doctors say she may only have a few weeks left.

I don't believe in karma or fate or anything like that, but I can't help but feel that everything in the universe that can go wrong is choosing the absolute worst time to do it.

My mental health is in the gutter. Not felt this bad for this long since I was arrested. I won't discuss the details of the case until I've got a verdict, but honestly at this point I just want this over. The path of least resistance seems to be to not fight it and hope the sentence (less the 30% discount) is something I can manage.

Thank you, everyone.
JASB
JASB
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NeverAgain - 22 Oct 23 3:06 PM
Just got the letter from the court. My date is only four weeks away.

I've instantly gone from trying to live like nothing's happend to full-on panic.

What the hell do I do? I rang and emailed the solicitor weeks ago when the police emailed me, now I've only got a month before I need to be in court and they still haven't got back to me (he wasn't even there for my second interview, the last time I spoke to him was probably over a year ago at this point).

I don't know what's going on and I don't know who to ask or even what to ask them.

Hi
First I'm not sure if I missed it but have you actually signed an agreement with this solicitors? If so you will have a document that states their services to you. If they are failing on them you can claim compensation from the Legal Ombudsman. Just saying that as a positive distraction Smile

Have you or are you able to claim Legal Aid? I didn't have that discussion until I attended the magistrates Court.
If not and as they have been non repsonive then I would consider changing solicitors. Reason, it doesn't matter how busy they are they or their Legal Secretary; most solicitors have one and use them for the leg work, should of been in touch over this period as a courtesy. Consider the point that this is a lot of pre-hearing work to be done to prepare for any hearing so if they haven't completed any yet how can they undertake it properly now.

If you want a recommendation I used a Michael Phillips , look at his bio as he has dealt with many image offences. He helped me with my SOPO. He is in Reading but we did everything by email or phone and was sucessful.

You heard of the 5 P's - Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance!

Finally, the most difficult and important task is your own wellbeing. You need to focus on that now before life really gets hectic. Understand the elements you control and so identify the real questions that need to be answered e.g. do you have representation? If the answer is no then you can sort that. In short get your self and any documentation / evidence you have organised so easily accessable. 

You can do it with self belief.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
punter99
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If you can, then go the offices of the solicitor and ask to speak to them in person, or hire another solicitor. If they cannot be bothered to reply to your emails or phone calls, then they don't deserve your business.

One of the reasons for the delay may be that CPS are dragging their heels and that is normal. If it gets to the day of the plea hearing and your solicitor has not had the forensic report back, then they will simply ask for the hearing to be relisted on another day. You won't be penalised, because delays in the system are so common nowadays.
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NeverAgain - 22 Oct 23 3:06 PM
Just got the letter from the court. My date is only four weeks away.

I've instantly gone from trying to live like nothing's happend to full-on panic.

What the hell do I do? I rang and emailed the solicitor weeks ago when the police emailed me, now I've only got a month before I need to be in court and they still haven't got back to me (he wasn't even there for my second interview, the last time I spoke to him was probably over a year ago at this point).

I don't know what's going on and I don't know who to ask or even what to ask them.

The stress is normal. Not really knowing what is going on is also normal - so don't think that is unusual. The first appearance is likely to either be a plea or an appearance - does the letter state which?

Your solicitor is likely very busy - the delays over court proceedings during Covid are causing lots of problems. This being said, if you need them to do some leg work, you will need to be persistent. If, as you have mentioned, you didn't knowingly download anything untoward you will need to prove this. You need to ask your Solicitor to apply for an independent analysis of the devices.

Due to the nature of the alleged offence, unfortunately if you choose to go to trial you will need to prove your innocence. 

From my experience - being in court is the worst experience of my life. It is horrendous, unorganised and repressive. The good thing is though, once it's done it's done. Think of having a date as a good thing - you now have a path to eventually getting this behind you.
xDanx
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NeverAgain - 22 Oct 23 3:06 PM
Just got the letter from the court. My date is only four weeks away.

I've instantly gone from trying to live like nothing's happend to full-on panic.

What the hell do I do? I rang and emailed the solicitor weeks ago when the police emailed me, now I've only got a month before I need to be in court and they still haven't got back to me (he wasn't even there for my second interview, the last time I spoke to him was probably over a year ago at this point).

I don't know what's going on and I don't know who to ask or even what to ask them.

I was just reading the whole thread again to catch up, you mentioned you only used the laptop offline to do some writing and music things, only connecting it to internet for updates. This needs to be proven and should be something you can ask your solicitor, but because they are solicitors who were appointed to you on your arrest, this is very unlikely to happen. It is very possible if you back up your phone often to your laptop, anything found may be found there too.

I mentioned in this thread my experience, stating they claimed to have found things on all my devices which I know to be 2000% untrue. They took a computer I had for less than 2 weeks, this computer came with no hard drive so I had to install one myself. The hard drive I used came directly from a virgin media TIVO box as I was not currently using it. I installed windows 7 on it and a web browser, got all updates for it done and drivers. Other than that the computer was mostly used by my kids when they visited, to play games or watch youtube. When I got the call from the investigating officer claiming ALL devices tested positive, I questioned him saying "tested positive for what" which he stated "I can not tell you"

Do I think they falsified reports to prevent me from getting the devices back? Absolutely. Can I prove it? No
This is unfortunately how the UK justice system works, they pick on those they know will end up resulting in convictions, especially those who are unable to afford "real" solicitors. Ignoring those who pose a greater danger, I am sure we have all heard the news over the years.

But... back to the topic at hand. You are being charged for 2 cat C images and a prohibited image. I too have no idea what those even look like or what a prohibited image details, these are questions you could be asking your solicitor. Which they should be advising you about. Have Police ever offered a caution? Because you gave no comment responses, not made a guilty plea or accepting any form of responsibility for the charges. It is likely to go to magistrates where you will be asked for a plea. Not guilty / no plea may end up being brought to crown court for trial, where a jury will examine evidence found and then take whatever time they wish to determine a verdict. If you made a guilty plea, then it will still go to the crown court but this then would be for sentencing. The usual procedure is Probation would carry out a pre-sentence report so the judge has some back ground info about you, what lead to the offense and ultimately highlight what steps you have taken since your arrest, Probation officer will include comments expressing any risk they believe you pose. And, if they believe custodial / non-custodial is warranted. Credit guilty pleas will also be taken in to consideration at sentence, in some cases resulting in a non-custodial sentence. 3rd option is, given there was only 2 apparent images found that they are charging you with, with the addition of the prohibited image. You accept a caution, this will avoid having to go to court. You will likely end up getting a SHPO, resulting in having to also sign the register. But this will only be for 2 years, and there is a high chance your case might not even be published in the media. Recovering the devices on the other hand, I am not sure about.

So, What do you do?
First, keep calm. I know how difficult that is but try. Having a clear head will help with what is coming up, keep doing what you are doing. Therapist, hobbies, work, (if you are working) which ever way you decide to play it. You have 4 weeks till court, so try and familiarize yourself with the process. Although without the support of your solicitors, this may be difficult to do and will likely be a last minute thing as it was for me. Police always seem to give information the day before court, so your next interaction with solicitor maybe on the day in court.

What do you ask?
Solicitors, You want more information regarding the charges, ask them for ALL paperwork that they have about your case. Any digital forensic reports ect. what options are they willing to do to confirm evidence. What advice do they have relating to the charges, should you plead guilty? not guilty? make no plea at all? Ask for more information about cautions, is that a viable option?  Will they do the leg work to enquire about it? Should the worst happen, you are given a SHPO, do they know the Smith court of appeal ruling that outlines what a SHPO should and should not impose? Give it a read here.

Police, If solicitors are not doing the leg work for you. Ask police questions yourself. Ask them for information about cautions, is it something they might consider. Ask them for more details on the charges, how they came to their conclusions.

I apologize for the long post, but I felt it was important to share in hopes it helps. It is very normal to be scared in these situations, putting your life in the hands of others (solicitors) relying on their ability to prove the truth. Advantage you have are these forums, all of our experiences. Plus additional information regarding past rulings. Prepare yourself, learn and decide what the best options are for you. Remember, if you are not happy with your existing solicitors. You are well with in your rights to find another, some may allow it for free, others may accept legal aid.

Edited
7 Months Ago by xDanx
NeverAgain
NeverAgain
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Just got the letter from the court. My date is only four weeks away.

I've instantly gone from trying to live like nothing's happend to full-on panic.

What the hell do I do? I rang and emailed the solicitor weeks ago when the police emailed me, now I've only got a month before I need to be in court and they still haven't got back to me (he wasn't even there for my second interview, the last time I spoke to him was probably over a year ago at this point).

I don't know what's going on and I don't know who to ask or even what to ask them.

Edited
7 Months Ago by NeverAgain
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Sadly, you learn things going through this process. Police do something called "stacking charges" to justify a prosocution/ charge. With me, they lumbed a whole load of images into the charges that were completely innocent (some were a friend who posted pictures on her Facebook, others were of my cousins kids playing) - their justification was that they were "erotic posing". They most certainly were not that!
If you choose to go to court you can have an approved professional garner access to an image of your electronic device for analysis. An image is a complete 'dump' of the electronic device's memory. The police will not surrender the actual device for analysis - something my solicitor at the time was very vocal about. You should be able to access legal aid to do this as it is fundimental to your defence. You shouldn't go into it here, but you will know if the charges are fair/ lenient or harsh - if it is either of the first two you should have a chat with your solicitor. Most competant solicitors have connections and will be able to assertain the likely outcome for you.
One thing to add - the SOR is not a nice thing to be on, but it is managable and will likely only impact your life every few months - and it will be over eventually. So if this is what you get, don't stress too much about it.

The overview of the catogories can be found here: https://consult.justice.gov.uk/sentencing-council/indecent-images-children/supporting_documents/sexual%20offences_Indecent%20images%20of%20children.pdf 
punter99
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The solicitor can request something called pre charge disclosure, which means they can see the evidence the police have, before any charges are brought. Then they can decide whether the images meet the test for Cat C. If they do, then the next step is to find out when the images were downloaded and when they were viewed.
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