Hi
I've actually just been informed of a online "free" support site called MoodGYM
I have not researched it much yet and though I have been told it is free BUT some are charging a fee?

Anyway hopefully will help and keep yourself belief strong.

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Yes, if you didn't go to prison, then you are treated in the same way as someone who was given a community order. You probably just need to make sure it doesn't interfere with any appointments at probation, including a course if they put you on one.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Hi JASB,

Thank you for your suggestion. I am an avid reader actually and have just finished for the fifth time Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankle. I am going through a Greek Mythology phase atm making my way through The Oddyesy by Homer at present I am still in two minds wheather to purchase the new one by Stephen Fry. I have added your suggestion to my kindle library to read next. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
All the best,

P

There's one thing I'm not clear about. You say that someone under probation needs approval for one night away from their approved address. My understanding is that only applies to people released from prison. It doesn't apply to those under probation as part of a community or suspended sentence?

Hi As my previous post I feel for you and your scenario. One point though on the "risk" comment.

Your "risk" has nothing to do with whether it is a "contact" offence or not. For example last week an individual got life solely on his "internet" based actions and the consequences of them ie a girl committed suicide.

We all (me included) have our own opinions on our own risk because we think we "really" know ourselves, so do not take my words as a dig but more of generating "thoughts" to help you understand your self and why you did what you did. I would recommend reading "The Compassionate Mind its a renown book by Paul Gilbert. It is cheap off ebay and far better to fill your time reading this than day time tv for instance

On the staying at a hotel point, I agree that a PO can enforce their own rules but you mentioned your SHPO stated them. Hence why I would start with removing that/those conditions and then present that to your PO to help them consider reducing your risk status!

As others say, you will get nowhere "fighting" the system you have to work with it, become knowledgable of its aims and show you have met those aims to therefore progress.

Keep positive and ignore negativity i.e. the social critics just trying to look good to others. they are probably hiding secrets anyway lol



Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Well, if you got ten years on the SOR, that says your sentence (prison or suspended) was more than six months but less that thirty months. If it was actual prison, your probation officer owns you. If it was suspended, that means they have a great deal of control over what you can and can't do. MAPPA is Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements. Unlock can explain it better than I can. It just means probation will liaise with your police manager while you are under probation, and any other agencies that need to become involved, such as social services. Don't make assumptions about risk levels, as I was in prison with a guy who didn't commit any contact offences and was in for possession of indecent images. Tens of thousands of them, and release from prison seems to raise risk levels automatically. I hope you're low risk, but it is probably unlikely that anyone will confirm or deny that at this stage. If your request to stay at a hotel is refused, they should at least give you a reason, in case there is a way to reduce or eliminate the risk, such as staying at one of those Warner Adult Hotels.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Ah ok, thank you for that. My PO and myself have an OK relationship anyway and cannot forsee any issues with me asking permission about staying there. If for some reason she denies my request and cannot go is there anything I can do to over turn it and does my PO have to give a reason? I am classed as a Medium risk but personally I think im a Low risk as I've not no 'Contact' conviction. Also what is MAPPA?
Many thanks.
P

If you are under probation, you need their permission for even one night away from your approved address. At this stage, the police should be quite happy to let probation make those decisions, and they will probably find out through MAPPA anyway, so telling them shouldn't cause any problems. Everything you do that shows you to be compliant and open ought to serve you well in the longer term.

By all means mention that abuse to the police, but if there was no physical violence involved then getting it followed up might cause more trouble than it's worth, if the police even bother.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Hi AB2014, Thank you for this, I had assumed all of that as well. I have 1 meeting with my PO in a couple of weeks time, No they done have me under observation at all. As its only three nights I assume I dont even have to mention it to either my PPU or Probation then? I asked my PPU and she just said its all uptp probation anyway.
I am staying positive but last night I did get a load of nasty vitriolic abuse off one of the barstaff from the pub were both banned from which ive saved and unsure what I can probably do with it or if its worth passing onto my PPU or the police for that matter.
Once again thank you for your answer and your suggestion about the T-Shirt it seems great minds think alike in this instance as I have the same sence of humour. 

If the only offence charged was for making of the images, I would consider taking your SHPO back to court for amendments. Which you are free to do at any time. You can represent yourself if you wish, but always seek out proper legal advice if you can.
When it comes to SHPO's I always like to forward this link as it is great insight to what is technically allowed or not allowed when a SHPO is drafted. Please do read at your convenience https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2011/1772.html (keep in mind a recent change in the law now allows positive restrictions to be included)
Unless you pay for the right solicitors, you will not get the best defense or information in matters such as these, I would assume you accepted the free solicitor Police offer for your case?
From my own studies and understanding of the SHPO's must follow these guidelines:

1. Given 2 days or more before any hearing to allow time for amendments to be made to the SHPO
2. Must not impose further restrictions "just in case" an offender escalates to other offenses (being treated for contact offenses for committing non contact offenses)
3. If any contact restriction is imposed, it must be proportional to the facts of the case and must be 16's and under by default. Unless offenses took place in a position of trust in which 18's and under would be imposed

That being said, If Police have no evidence to suggest you have committed physical contact offenses, whether it be past, present or future. They have no legal grounds to stop you staying anywhere, you are of course subject to the Notification Requirements which still means, if you reside anywhere for 7 days or more you must go and sign the register with in 3 days to inform police of this address, If you reside somewhere 12 hours or more where there is someone under the age of 18 you must also inform and register the address. JASB made the point in how could you even know 18's and under who stay that would not breach data protection? My PPU stopped me from continuing my paintball hobbies for the very same reason, the possibility of under 18's being present that I have no way of knowing if any turn up. Demanded I made full disclosure to the event holders and they had people there who could "manage" me. Should you go ahead and argue your SHPO, you could even now include the SHPO and it's wording is causing you isolation.

Do not take the risk of just going anyway and not tell them, until you decide to take your SHPO back to court for amendments, win the case having the contact restrictions removed based on the Smith ruling I have linked. Everything written with in your SHPO still stands and could land you back in court for breaching.

Take some time, enjoy life as best as you can. If you wish to fight your SHPO then please take the time and do the research, I am sure should you have any further questions many of us here will be more than happy to help

Regards

Hi

I had a SOPO impossed and the wording explicitlly said "any residence" which unless my glasses have misted, your does not as it says "Reside in any private dwelling".
A hotel or B&B etc is not a private dwelling.
A quick search on the term "what is meant by a private dwelling" will bring many solicitors case studies ie: What is meant by the term private dwelling
Note the scenario mentioned is diffferant BUT it is the defination you are interested in.
In Court I raised the wording of my SOPO on the grounds that there is no method of knowing the age of any of the other quests. Also if there is not "restrictions set by the owner on who can stay there. I would suggest it breaks Data protection rules for them to disclose any data on the other guests.
The Judge agreed and the wording changed as yours.
Also if there are no "rules" set by the owner you are being forced to make a disclosure that is not required. Again once I was convicted the Met Police informed the "private" hotel I was staying at and they asked me to leave. Unfortunatley my solicitor just basically said "live with it".

If they push I am afraid you may need to go back to the Courts to have it reworded or get a solicitor to support you with the authorities.

I wish you sucess but please be calm and respectful in informing the authorities of the defination, as you will not know what the consequences will be in the future.



Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
------------------------------

This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Hello Friends,
I hope that everyone is well? This is my first post on here and one of many I hope.

I do have a question about staying at a Hotel in London while on a ten year SHPO but first let me tell you the backstory of what has happened to myself first.
I first received "The Knock" back in July 2022 and over two years I had no less than 13 court apperances mostly were just five minuite affairs.
My last one was in July 2024 and I received a ten year SHPO and ten years on the SOR for "Making" a number of Cat C, B and a few A images.
Something I deeply regret.

During those those two years I done the Engage Plus course with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and received specalist councelling as I was going through a
particulary dark patch. Unfortunatly for me my final court appearance was being watched by a reporter from a local rag behind his desk and screen and decided
to report my case in his paper. On top of this what he wrote was untrue as he reported on a charge that was dropped due to lack of evidence and has made me
look a lot worse than I already am.

Since then my wife and I's life has become intolerable and made the two years of various court apperances seem like a walk in the park. As its now public
knowledge and I have been dismissed from the Birdwatching Club I was a member of. We have been barred from 2 of our favorite pubs that we used to
frequent and worse of all the whole grove where we reside all know about my crimes and supposed and false charge.

Unfortunately for us we both live at the very back of the cul-de-sac (grove) and we have to walk past our neighbours to get to the car in the garage block where 
I park my car. A distance of 400 feet give or take and about 20+ families on both sides. On top of this I am a full time carer for my wife and we just found out that she
will have to start dialysis next year for the rest of her life whichunfortunatly is life limiting. Our next door neighbour has took it upon herself to make both of our lives
a misery and has been in touch with all of our friendsin our local pubs. Everytime we leave the house and run what I call the gauntlet of shame were hurled with
verbal abuse. This has had a major impact on my mental health and I have become somewhat of a hermit for the time being.

On the bright side and something we are both looking forward too is that we have sold our home and our offer was accepted on a much nicer place in a much better
area. We just now have to wait for the various solicitors to do there thing before we sign the contract and arrange a moving date which I had hoped would be before
christmas this year but is likely to be next year now. Still its something to look forward to. On top of that we both have an excellent support network mainly from my
father and my wifes immediate family as well as two very close friends who know the whole story all of whome make our lives bearable for this interim period. 
I recently visited my doctor due to my wife making an appointment without my knowledge (due to my unwillingness to go myself) and she has prescribed Mirtazapine for
my obvious depression and very black moods which seems to be working and which I am very grateful for.

Now onto the question at hand. Both my PO and PPU officers has said recently that I am unable to stay at a B & B or a Hotel where under 18's can stay and that the only
option available is propertly like AirBNB. I have looked at my SHPO and there is nothing there that says that. We both went on a long weekend break of four nights a few
weeks after my final court apperance and my PPU officer told me that I could not stay at the B&B  that we had booked. Luckily we had found a B&B with a spererate annex
and was able to book that on the approveal of my PO.

Since than I have gone through my SHPO numerous times and the closest conditions to my situation above are as follows:

    (11) Reside in any private dwelling where a child or young person under the age of 18 is present

     or enter into any relationship with another person under the age of 18 or who has children under
     the age of 18 without first informing the defendant's police offender manager of that other person's
     full personal details with an understanding that a full [or relevant] disclosure of the defendant's
     sexual offending history will be made.

    (12) Having any unsupervised contact or communication of any kind with any person under the 
     age of 18, other than
         (i) such as in inadvertant, chance meeting associating or befrending a child or young person
          under the age of 18 which is not reasonably avoidable in the course of lawful daily life, or
         (ii) with the prior consent of the child's parent or guardian (who has knowledge of his
          convictions) and with the express prior approval of Social Services for the area.

The rest of the requirements just deal with electronic devices and contact with other offenders. on top of that
I have certain notification requirements for I presume for the SOR which state:

whether you reside or stay at lease 12 hours in a household with a

child (a child is someone who is under the age of 18). The meaning of

this is described in law. If you are not sure whether it describes your

circumstances, you should ask the police or solicitor for advice. 

     

Then it has this under Notification requirements...

If you have a usual home address but you stay at another
address for 7 days or longer You must go to the police station and
tell the police within 3 days of having stayed at this new address. You
must do this if:

you stay at the new address for 7 days or morem at one time.

or       if you stay at the address for two or more shorter periods that add
           up to 7 days or more, during a period of 12 months.

If you reside or stay in a household for at least 12 hours where a
child resides or stays (a child is someone under the age of 18) 
You must goto the police station and tell the police that there is
a child residing or staying in the same household as you. You must do
this within 3 days of the date when you began to reside or stay in the
household. The meaning of this requirement is described in law. If you
are not sure whether the requirement describes your circumstances,
you should ask the police or solicitor for advice.

My wife and I have birthdays in a few weeks time and she has booked three nights in London for us to get away from our
neighbours and have some time together celebrating our birthdays. As far as I am concerned I am able to stay at a 
Premier Inn (or any other hotel for that matter) as its only three days and most of the time we will be out and about only
staying in a private room during the night.

Am I correct in this? My PPU officer has told me that its upto my PO, who I think is likely to say no on this occasion.
What advice can you give? I am inclined to just go and not tell either of them but naturally I do not want to breach any of my
conditions.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this long post and I hope that you are having a great weekend.
Thanks again.

P