|
Stersco83
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
|
+x+x+x+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements. I had a cellmate many years ago who just decided to move to Ireland while on the SOR, but didn't notify the police over here. It wasn't a problem in Ireland, even though he didn't tell the Gardai, as the police over here tracked him down to Ireland and asked the Gardai to find him and arrest him. They found his "hideout" by checking his website and looking him up in the phone book. The arresting officer said that if he'd just notified them, they wouldn't have bothered him. Even the judge in the extradition court said that if he opposed the application to deport him, he would reject it and that would be the end of it forever. That was in 2008, though, so things might have changed since then. Just not on the scale of hysteria we've seen over here. Ok but your story is about a man being tracked down by British police, having gone to Ireland and failed the British register. I'm talking about going to Ireland legit (notifying UK authorities), as if on holiday, no funny business. One key takeaway is, you notify British police that you're going to Ireland, without saying where or how long, this doesn't bring any Irish heat on you. They don't make you register in Ireland, unless you come to their attention somehow as an SO maybe. Go for a duly notified permanent vacation with your auntie in County Cork, live normally and freely. Mmmmaybe say it's open ended in terms of time span and don't announce the auntie's address, just initial hotels etc. Guys...if you don't believe me, try it. Book a full week in Ireland, notifying in advance, but say you don't know the return date, and use unplanned impromptu hotels etc that you don't notify in advance. Nobody will sit you down and tell you about any Irish register. And when you're there, ask yourself why the hell you can't just stay there. No doubt it is possible to visit Ireland for a holiday, without arousing suspicion. Your PPU probably did not know about the SOR rules in Ireland and did not care enough to investigate them. If they had done, they might have tipped off the Garda that you were coming. It really depends on the PPU and their attitude. We see similar things with travel companies that have rules against knowingly accepting bookings from SO. How do they find out then? In most cases, the PPU will not bother to read the travel companies t&c and tell you that you cannot go, or threaten to inform them , if you do go, so people can and probably do, just get away with it. But every so often, on forums like this, we come across the one situation where the PPU were really keen and did do all the checks they were supposed to do. The same thing could happen with your trip to Ireland. You just got lucky that last time your PPU was lazy. Next time could different. The Irish notification requirements are that you have to tell them your address every 12 months, so a short trip might well go under the radar. But the longer you stay there, the more the risk increases. If the UK police think you are coming back soon, they may also do nothing, but suppose you are still missing after 6 months, when they do their home visit? At this point they may start to ask questions and then the Garda could become involved. On the other hand, we know that UK police forces have lost track of thousands of SO. Again, due to high volumes of work and general laziness, they may have just decided not to bother looking for them. There could be hundreds of SO already living off the grid in Ireland, for all I know. At the end of the day, it is a gamble and it might pay off. Just depends if you are willing to take that risk. I don't think I was taking a risk though. Until someone mentions to you that Ireland has a SOR, I don't see how you can be held accountable. I'm sure if the PPU were supposed to notify the Irish police as a matter of routine, they would have been trained to do so. I just can't game out a series of events where an open-ended vacation in Ireland results in you being made to register. If you do what I do and fashion a nice open-ended excuse (for me I honestly told them it's conference season so I don't know how soon I'll be back, I have a bunch of random projects connected with Trinity College etc), then go to Ireland, then stay in Ireland at a place of your spontaneous choosing while already there ... I just don't see how you could wind up on the SOR. It's not like being a fugitive. You can even interact with police etc and should be fine. Even if you get "caught", "ah well I didn't know there was an Irish register, maybe I'll just go home now if it's all the same" All I'm saying is .. Ireland is about as good a home as England for most purposes, and by default you won't end up on the SOR just by being there. Even if you did, it might be a different sort of SOR. They might not have your paperwork etc, or be as imposing / draconian with the same confidence. So for all the brainstorming that goes on here among those seeking a more normal life, I'm amazed there's not more attention given to Ireland.
|
|
|
|
|
punter99
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 901,
Visits: 7.5K
|
+x+x+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements. I had a cellmate many years ago who just decided to move to Ireland while on the SOR, but didn't notify the police over here. It wasn't a problem in Ireland, even though he didn't tell the Gardai, as the police over here tracked him down to Ireland and asked the Gardai to find him and arrest him. They found his "hideout" by checking his website and looking him up in the phone book. The arresting officer said that if he'd just notified them, they wouldn't have bothered him. Even the judge in the extradition court said that if he opposed the application to deport him, he would reject it and that would be the end of it forever. That was in 2008, though, so things might have changed since then. Just not on the scale of hysteria we've seen over here. Ok but your story is about a man being tracked down by British police, having gone to Ireland and failed the British register. I'm talking about going to Ireland legit (notifying UK authorities), as if on holiday, no funny business. One key takeaway is, you notify British police that you're going to Ireland, without saying where or how long, this doesn't bring any Irish heat on you. They don't make you register in Ireland, unless you come to their attention somehow as an SO maybe. Go for a duly notified permanent vacation with your auntie in County Cork, live normally and freely. Mmmmaybe say it's open ended in terms of time span and don't announce the auntie's address, just initial hotels etc. Guys...if you don't believe me, try it. Book a full week in Ireland, notifying in advance, but say you don't know the return date, and use unplanned impromptu hotels etc that you don't notify in advance. Nobody will sit you down and tell you about any Irish register. And when you're there, ask yourself why the hell you can't just stay there. No doubt it is possible to visit Ireland for a holiday, without arousing suspicion. Your PPU probably did not know about the SOR rules in Ireland and did not care enough to investigate them. If they had done, they might have tipped off the Garda that you were coming. It really depends on the PPU and their attitude. We see similar things with travel companies that have rules against knowingly accepting bookings from SO. How do they find out then? In most cases, the PPU will not bother to read the travel companies t&c and tell you that you cannot go, or threaten to inform them , if you do go, so people can and probably do, just get away with it. But every so often, on forums like this, we come across the one situation where the PPU were really keen and did do all the checks they were supposed to do. The same thing could happen with your trip to Ireland. You just got lucky that last time your PPU was lazy. Next time could different. The Irish notification requirements are that you have to tell them your address every 12 months, so a short trip might well go under the radar. But the longer you stay there, the more the risk increases. If the UK police think you are coming back soon, they may also do nothing, but suppose you are still missing after 6 months, when they do their home visit? At this point they may start to ask questions and then the Garda could become involved. On the other hand, we know that UK police forces have lost track of thousands of SO. Again, due to high volumes of work and general laziness, they may have just decided not to bother looking for them. There could be hundreds of SO already living off the grid in Ireland, for all I know. At the end of the day, it is a gamble and it might pay off. Just depends if you are willing to take that risk.
|
|
|
|
|
AB2014
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.7K
|
+x+x+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements. I had a cellmate many years ago who just decided to move to Ireland while on the SOR, but didn't notify the police over here. It wasn't a problem in Ireland, even though he didn't tell the Gardai, as the police over here tracked him down to Ireland and asked the Gardai to find him and arrest him. They found his "hideout" by checking his website and looking him up in the phone book. The arresting officer said that if he'd just notified them, they wouldn't have bothered him. Even the judge in the extradition court said that if he opposed the application to deport him, he would reject it and that would be the end of it forever. That was in 2008, though, so things might have changed since then. Just not on the scale of hysteria we've seen over here. Ok but your story is about a man being tracked down by British police, having gone to Ireland and failed the British register. I'm talking about going to Ireland legit (notifying UK authorities), as if on holiday, no funny business. One key takeaway is, you notify British police that you're going to Ireland, without saying where or how long, this doesn't bring any Irish heat on you. They don't make you register in Ireland, unless you come to their attention somehow as an SO maybe. Go for a duly notified permanent vacation with your auntie in County Cork, live normally and freely. Mmmmaybe say it's open ended in terms of time span and don't announce the auntie's address, just initial hotels etc. Guys...if you don't believe me, try it. Book a full week in Ireland, notifying in advance, but say you don't know the return date, and use unplanned impromptu hotels etc that you don't notify in advance. Nobody will sit you down and tell you about any Irish register. And when you're there, ask yourself why the hell you can't just stay there. Yes, it was about someone who had breached his requirements and was living abroad. The main point, though, was that the arresting officer said that if he had just registered with them, they wouldn't have bothered him at all. It sounded like it was a formality so they could say they had Done Something, but they didn't go any further than taking details and just let people get on with their lives. He might still have been extradited for that breach of requirements, but if he'd turned up legally and just registered, there would have been no repercussions for him.
=========================================================================================================
If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
|
|
|
|
|
Stersco83
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
|
+x+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements. I had a cellmate many years ago who just decided to move to Ireland while on the SOR, but didn't notify the police over here. It wasn't a problem in Ireland, even though he didn't tell the Gardai, as the police over here tracked him down to Ireland and asked the Gardai to find him and arrest him. They found his "hideout" by checking his website and looking him up in the phone book. The arresting officer said that if he'd just notified them, they wouldn't have bothered him. Even the judge in the extradition court said that if he opposed the application to deport him, he would reject it and that would be the end of it forever. That was in 2008, though, so things might have changed since then. Just not on the scale of hysteria we've seen over here. Ok but your story is about a man being tracked down by British police, having gone to Ireland and failed the British register. I'm talking about going to Ireland legit (notifying UK authorities), as if on holiday, no funny business. One key takeaway is, you notify British police that you're going to Ireland, without saying where or how long, this doesn't bring any Irish heat on you. They don't make you register in Ireland, unless you come to their attention somehow as an SO maybe. Go for a duly notified permanent vacation with your auntie in County Cork, live normally and freely. Mmmmaybe say it's open ended in terms of time span and don't announce the auntie's address, just initial hotels etc. Guys...if you don't believe me, try it. Book a full week in Ireland, notifying in advance, but say you don't know the return date, and use unplanned impromptu hotels etc that you don't notify in advance. Nobody will sit you down and tell you about any Irish register. And when you're there, ask yourself why the hell you can't just stay there.
|
|
|
|
|
Stersco83
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
|
+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. Probably not, no? I just came back from a week in Ireland having notified UK police beforehand, flight and all, and nobody had even informed me that Ireland even has a SOR! So either I didn't need to register, neither British or Irish authorities made me register or told me I must, and so I presume at least cannot be held accountable. So if indeed indeed I am supposed to be on the Ireland SOR, nobody has yet brought it to my attention. That's what prompted this post. I wondered "why don't I just stay here forever?" Yes I don't deny the literature you just showed me, but what I'm saying is, it looks as if the occasion never arises where you become forced to register in Ireland under threat of prosecution. In Britain they sit you down, tell you a Register exists, and that you must do such and such. That situation never arises in Ireland if you're just wandering in from the UK. You set foot in Ireland, be in Ireland, that's the whole process.
|
|
|
|
|
AB2014
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.7K
|
+xNotwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements. I had a cellmate many years ago who just decided to move to Ireland while on the SOR, but didn't notify the police over here. It wasn't a problem in Ireland, even though he didn't tell the Gardai, as the police over here tracked him down to Ireland and asked the Gardai to find him and arrest him. They found his "hideout" by checking his website and looking him up in the phone book. The arresting officer said that if he'd just notified them, they wouldn't have bothered him. Even the judge in the extradition court said that if he opposed the application to deport him, he would reject it and that would be the end of it forever. That was in 2008, though, so things might have changed since then. Just not on the scale of hysteria we've seen over here.
=========================================================================================================
If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
|
|
|
|
|
punter99
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 901,
Visits: 7.5K
|
Notwithstanding the right to move to Ireland if you are a UK citizen, you would still be required to register with their police within 3 days of arriving in the country. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/sex-offenders-register/
Do these notification requirements apply to someone convicted outside the State?Yes. If you are convicted of a sexual offence outside Ireland and that offence is a sexual offence in Ireland, you are subject to the same Garda notification requirements if you come to live in Ireland. If you fail to notify the Gardaí of your details, the Gardaí can prosecute you for non-compliance with the requirements.
|
|
|
|
|
AB2014
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.7K
|
+x+x- No UK register obligations
- British-like culture, intertwined with British economy. London-linked work from home opportunities exist. Dublin is like an extremely chill version of London.
- Slightly diminished Google Effect (UK stories don't cling to the top of Google the same way , I find)
- Clean criminal record by default (ok if you say you're a British citizen they may ask for the British record but there's a chance they may not or may forget)
- Convenient port of call for spontaneous unnotified onward travel (e.g. USA), which after many months there is not narratively suspicious in the eyes of UK police, and if it is, who cares - you're in Ireland?.
- Can slip in and out the UK potentially without notification, although you'd be breaching the law if more than 3 days
- Within easy reach of all you hold dear. Even your own British family will not feel too abandoned by your move to Ireland.
- It's a comprehensive, civilised nation state, not a weird colony.
Moreover.... - Vote
- Draw benefits and pensions
- Live there indefinitely
Granted.. - They allegedly have their own SOR which they expect permanent foreign residents to sign up to, but do you really need to announce this? Just by hanging around Ireland longer than usual? Also it's a very threadbare thing, not like the British one.
It's what I'd be doing right now if I was on the SOR for life. A little cottage near the border. Whenever I read all these stories along the lines "oh well my work coach this or that, my PPU will eventually let me do this or that" -- I just keep thinking "good God please just get out from under it, do yourself a favour, go live with your uncle in Spain, anything". Of course we don't all have uncles in Spain, but we do have Ireland. There is a housing shortage in Ireland, but assuming you did buy a property, then the issue of residency would probably arise. Under the Common Travel Area agreements, UK citizens have the right to travel freely to and within Ireland and live there for as long as they want.
=========================================================================================================
If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
|
|
|
|
|
Richard
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 85,
Visits: 673
|
+x+x+x- No UK register obligations
- British-like culture, intertwined with British economy. London-linked work from home opportunities exist. Dublin is like an extremely chill version of London.
- Slightly diminished Google Effect (UK stories don't cling to the top of Google the same way , I find)
- Clean criminal record by default (ok if you say you're a British citizen they may ask for the British record but there's a chance they may not or may forget)
- Convenient port of call for spontaneous unnotified onward travel (e.g. USA), which after many months there is not narratively suspicious in the eyes of UK police, and if it is, who cares - you're in Ireland?.
- Can slip in and out the UK potentially without notification, although you'd be breaching the law if more than 3 days
- Within easy reach of all you hold dear. Even your own British family will not feel too abandoned by your move to Ireland.
- It's a comprehensive, civilised nation state, not a weird colony.
Moreover.... - Vote
- Draw benefits and pensions
- Live there indefinitely
Granted.. - They allegedly have their own SOR which they expect permanent foreign residents to sign up to, but do you really need to announce this? Just by hanging around Ireland longer than usual? Also it's a very threadbare thing, not like the British one.
It's what I'd be doing right now if I was on the SOR for life. A little cottage near the border. Whenever I read all these stories along the lines "oh well my work coach this or that, my PPU will eventually let me do this or that" -- I just keep thinking "good God please just get out from under it, do yourself a favour, go live with your uncle in Spain, anything". Of course we don't all have uncles in Spain, but we do have Ireland. There is a housing shortage in Ireland, but assuming you did buy a property, then the issue of residency would probably arise. Ok, but I fail to see what would prompt any kind of registration. Never considered Ireland to live but visited before and it is a lovely country. I have considered moving somewhere remote in the UK at one point after my conviction. A big part of me wanted to escape and start somewhere where no one knew me.
|
|
|
|
|
Stersco83
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44,
Visits: 260
|
+x+x- No UK register obligations
- British-like culture, intertwined with British economy. London-linked work from home opportunities exist. Dublin is like an extremely chill version of London.
- Slightly diminished Google Effect (UK stories don't cling to the top of Google the same way , I find)
- Clean criminal record by default (ok if you say you're a British citizen they may ask for the British record but there's a chance they may not or may forget)
- Convenient port of call for spontaneous unnotified onward travel (e.g. USA), which after many months there is not narratively suspicious in the eyes of UK police, and if it is, who cares - you're in Ireland?.
- Can slip in and out the UK potentially without notification, although you'd be breaching the law if more than 3 days
- Within easy reach of all you hold dear. Even your own British family will not feel too abandoned by your move to Ireland.
- It's a comprehensive, civilised nation state, not a weird colony.
Moreover.... - Vote
- Draw benefits and pensions
- Live there indefinitely
Granted.. - They allegedly have their own SOR which they expect permanent foreign residents to sign up to, but do you really need to announce this? Just by hanging around Ireland longer than usual? Also it's a very threadbare thing, not like the British one.
It's what I'd be doing right now if I was on the SOR for life. A little cottage near the border. Whenever I read all these stories along the lines "oh well my work coach this or that, my PPU will eventually let me do this or that" -- I just keep thinking "good God please just get out from under it, do yourself a favour, go live with your uncle in Spain, anything". Of course we don't all have uncles in Spain, but we do have Ireland. There is a housing shortage in Ireland, but assuming you did buy a property, then the issue of residency would probably arise. Ok, but I fail to see what would prompt any kind of registration.
|
|
|
|