Border police have never had automatic access to the PNC even before Brexit. 

I am prepared to lie though my teeth and test it out with a little "duty-free shopping trip" before making a family trip, but I am always worried about residual data retention.

I am in no doubt that US immigration have a record of being informed by the UK police within 24 hours of my conviction and an email I received cancelling my ESTA, regardless of whether they have access to records. I have recently tried setting up an Instagram account (proprietor Facebook) with an alternative persona post coming of the SOR but was stupid enough to use my pre-conviction mobile number. Instant block. Within seconds. I have another account (ironically set up when I was still on the SOR for Instagram) which wasn't, presumably because I didn't give them a mobile number.

Our digital footprints go beyond way what is legal and proportionate.

One requirement for the new border checks is fingerprints. Whilst these could be linked direct to the info on the PNC, along with other unique identifiers such as passport number, that is not what the ETIAs says they are going to check. The main database for cross checking will be the Interpol one, and while Schengen is mentioned, that would presumably mean only those who are added to Schengen after the ETIAs goes live, not those who were on it before then, since they have been wiped from the system.

The issue is there are no links now but who is to say that one day ETIAS will not be linked to the UK PNC?

Or even if that does not link, there may be a link between the ETIAS systems and USA or Australian ETA so in theory if one admits to an offence 
on an Aussie ETA but not on the European ETIAS one could come unstuck?
My offence is minor and I could get in to australia with no issues even if I declared, but then I am mindful of declaring it for Etias purposes as I have no faith in the EU or its systems, particularly as I think each country will assess the offence differently once notified by ETIAS.

Those are very big "what ifs"! As far as ETIAS goes, whatever someone's view of Brexit is, I can't see them wanting to let the EU into our systems, especially when there are already systems in place to pass on what they need to know. I can't honestly see it going further abroad, either, pretty much on the same basis. It would have to be a two-way thing, and I doubt the UK's system could handle all that data arriving at once, even from only one source. There are so many people in the US with a criminal record that it would take a long time to build a system that could handle it. I believe every state has its own system, and the FBI can only get information for their equivalent of a police certificate by asking the relevant state rather than a central system. So, I can't see that happening for cost reasons and also as a matter of principle (yes, politicians still have some).


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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

I am still not sure ETIAS will start anyway, or if it does it will be such a cockpup that they will have to suspend it, none of ther systems are ready properly.

When it comes to the practicality, the real problem is compatibility, not capacity. The new EU border system has capacity to log every single entry and exit for every EU country. Who came in, who went out, what date and what time. That's a huge amount of data, but its not unusual to see that nowadays.

It's a very different story when it comes to connecting different databases, located in different countries. To connect the PNC to ETIAS directly would require both systems to be able 'talk' to one another and unless both systems were built by the same company, using the exact same technology, that can be almost impossible. The PNC is probably quite an old system now and not likely to be compatible with a brand new system such as ETIAs.

But the EU could request that we share data with them if they want. Thats how Schengen used to work. It required giving British police the access, to update the Schengen database, which was held in the EU. The US has requested that Canada share data with them, see below. That could be done by giving Canadian police access to update a US database for example. It would not necessarily mean connecting the Canadian PNC to the US systems.

https://headtopics.com/ca/canada-will-accede-to-u-s-request-to-share-travel-information-on-convicted-child-predators-30812359

I can see the sense in that, but when it comes to dealing with the EU, I can't see that there would be the political will to allow them direct access to any of our systems. There are procedures in place for telling them what we think they need to know, and they can apply for information on named individuals. Now that we don't feed directly into the Schengen database, we aren't subject to their rules and procedures, and I'd say it could only reasonably be requested if we were negotiating freedom of movement, which we're not. They could only really try to impose it if we were trying to negotiate our way back into the Single Market, which we're not. Sure, they could decide they want UK police to update the Schengen database, but they're unlikely to offer that unilaterally. In terms of the linked article, I haven't read it but I can see from the link what it's about. I believe the UK police are still sharing information with the Schengen system, but via Interpol, as they do with many other countries without a direct connection. Whatever the means, I'm guessing that Canada wouldn't really be doing anything other countries including the UK aren't already doing, they would just be using a more direct method.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Hi

To connect the PNC to ETIAS directly would require both systems to be able 'talk' to one another and unless both systems were built by the same company, using the exact same technology, that can be almost impossible. The PNC is probably quite an old system now and not likely to be compatible with a brand new system such as ETIAs.

Never to doubt your good self but this is not correct.
having undertaken many "data migration" projects from old to new "systems" - and between organisations, this would be achievable; it all relies on the "data acquired" for the new dbase e.g. what data can it store and does the old data hold it and in the correct format; or can it be converted into the correct format. The type of equipment etc is in essence irrelevant. The dbase itself will at a minimum accept ascii which you know can and probably would be used. I've done it many times on old CCPM, Unix, DOS, Windows etc Op sys, between many different types of hardware and Dbase structures i.e. Oracle, Dataflex etc etc.

Before you correct me on this, I understand this may not be an instant access, but then again would that be allowed? However, a regular (nightly/weekly or ??) export from our dbase and import to theirs would; which with the correct data analysis and process would be achievable. 

In the end it is whether their is the Political will power to allow, pay for the project.

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

Not going to give too much away, but when I was gainfully employed, one of my main specialities was getting "incompatible" databases/computer systems to talk to each other over secure connections. 

Most access to the PNC is not transactional. The PNC itself uses an overnight extract from the DVLA, not live data. This is "good enough".  Prior to Brexit there was a data link to the Schengen Information System. Connecting the PNC to ETIAS would not need a live data feed, but I suspect that it would be politically unacceptable for this to be allowed.

I agree that the politics makes it unlikely, that the EU will want to connect their systems to ours and of course you could convert the data into a different format and send it that way, although it is a bit clunky and old fashioned. Nowadays everybody wants their data in 'real time'. They are too impatient to wait for an overnight batch run.

 "I believe the UK police are still sharing information with the Schengen system, but via Interpol" 

This is sort of correct, but of course the criteria for putting a notice on Interpol is very different to the criteria for the old Schengen alerts. The pre Brexit arrangement was to create an alert for every SO, regardless of risk. The Interpol system requires the police to justify their decision with a proper risk assessment. 

The unknown question, is what criteria will ETIAs apply to SO. If you answer yes to the question about convictions and you are not on the Interpol list, how will they determine whether or not to let you in? The existing literature suggests they will ask the UK for further info if that happens and that it is a manual process, not automated, so it could come down to an individual opinion of the Border force official who is involved.