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Back from Spain


Back from Spain

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Supreme Being
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re Article 89 - everyone is a 'possible' threat
topperharley
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This is entirely true. It's the new schengen system and nothing to do with green notices.

I have travelled while notifying and have always had the odd question on return but nothing overseas. This year while travelling I have been stopped and questioned once and held for an uncomfortably long time while they looked at my passport another time. It's also worth noting that when I left Germany in summer they scanned my passport, asked some questions and waved me through. They then rang through to someone (main office) and mentioned me by name. My wife was in the queue behind and was there as they called. They asked her if she was my wife too. Put simply I now wouldn't even consider travelling with someone unaware of my convictions.
Mirrorman
Mirrorman
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Great to see some actual useful discussion here for once.

I was aware of the SIS system but did not think it was used for this purpose, as evidenced by the information here it clearly is used.

I know of situations personally where after your legal obligations are over no issues have been encountered at all. Of course there is no way to know 100% without doing an FOI request and actually getting a real answer, but in the cases I am aware of nothing was said/nothing happened at international borders both inside and outside of the EU.

It is concerning that for an alert the following must be true;

there is clear indication that a person intends to commit or is committing a serious criminal offence
or
they assess a person, in particular regarding their past criminal offences, and believe that the person will commit serious criminal offences in the future.


This is not being followed as the alerts are sent out 100% of the time.

I have just found the following, written into EU law:

Article 44
Retention period of alerts on persons

2. A Member State issuing an alert shall, within three years of its entry into SIS II, review the need to keep it. The period shall be one year in the case of alerts on persons pursuant to Article 36.


Further reading shows that the SIS alerts placed upon a person will be automatically deleted after a period of one year unless there has been a review which has decided it must be extended.

Post Edited (Mirrorman) : 14/10/2015 19:18:33 (GMT+2)


Mirrorman
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Yes, through an Interpol Green Notice.
Mirrorman
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Why wouldn't they issue both?

There are how many formal and informal ways to send this information I believe it would be done 100% of the time.

The real question is WHY exactly they are doing this? Further punishment? A way to restrict travel without going through the courts?
Mirrorman
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Yes I seen this coming.

So whenever you travel within EU now your passport will be 100% scanned. Upon being scanned your details will be run against the Interpol databases as well as SIS.

With an alert placed by the British police on SIS as well as a possible Green notice this will come up, the real question is what exactly will happen then?
Mirrorman
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From all of the reports we have at the moment we can gather up the following information;

1. A notice will be sent out about you to the country you are travelling. Doesn't matter what you did, or how long ago, if you must notify it will be sent.
2. Passport control will see this notice when you attempt to enter their country. They will have advanced knowledge of your travel plans provided by British Police.
3. If you travel in within the EU they cannot stop you going in.
4. They can ask you various questions.
5. Travel outside of EU has a much, much lower chance of gaining entry. I would not advise it at all.

Also be aware that the notice may be in affect for longer than the duration of your travel, e.g the US has their notices last for 5 years.
Mirrorman
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Thanks for the info guys, glad to see some actual discussion on this place.

I am following this topic extremely closely and am interested in any information that can be obtained.

First I would agree with BT, risk means absolutely nothing at all. I would never trust any word that comes from any law enforcement whatsoever, they are not there to help you. The information will be passed on as soon as you give it. I have traveled before and have never had any issues at all, entering or returning. UK Border know when you leave and when you come back. Law enforcement knows when you apply to get a passport, and they know all the details.

I would ask is there any possibility of anyone doing a FOI request directly to Interpol? They have to release the data they have on you, I already have done this and got nothing back, yet we have concrete proof here that this information was disseminated to foreign police which is done through Interpol. I would suggest anyone who had any issues in foreign country to do the FOI request.

BT -

What questions did they ask?
Did you answer them? You are under no obligation to do so.
What form did you fill out?
Why did you submit to an unlawful search of your vehicle? Was this done within the parameter of an Airport or Dover?

We need to get as much information about this as possible. As I believe this information is being transmitted unlawfully. The notices are for people who are travelling to commit further crimes, they could not have any evidence of this at all.
Mirrorman
Mirrorman
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Yes all will go through. I am aware they most likely withheld information from me, I have learned to never trust law enforcement. The case here is that these people 100% know that information was shared, thus they may have a better chance of getting information.

Here is what is meant to be done;


Article 89:
Green notices 
(1) Green notices are published to warn about a person’s criminal activities. 
(2) Green notices may only be published under the following conditions: 
   (a) The person is considered to be a possible threat to public safety; 
   (b) This conclusion has been drawn from an assessment by a national law-enforcement authority or an international entity;
   (c) This assessment is based on the person’s previous criminal conviction(s) or other reasonable grounds; 
   (d) Sufficient data concerning the threat are provided for the warning to be relevant.
(3) A green notice may only be published if it provides sufficient identifiers. Sufficient identifiers mean at least: 
   (a) either the family name, forename, sex, date of birth (at least the year), along with the physical description, DNA profile, fingerprints or data contained in identity documents     (passport or national identity card, for example); or 
   (b) a photograph of good quality, along with at least one identifier such as an alias, the name of one of the parents, or a specific physical characteristic not visible in the photograph. 
(4) The National Central Bureaus and national entities that receive green notices shall take the appropriate measures, in conformity with their national laws.

Mirrorman
Mirrorman
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What was your offense?
Do you have to inform police of travel?
What exactly happened?
What exact questions did they ask?
Did you fly directly from UK?
GO


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