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punter99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 721,
Visits: 5.3K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll I did was send a registered letter to my PPU and two weeks later I got a reply back saying that any remaining flags had been deleted and that I shouldn’t now have any problems. And since then I haven’t had any issues whatsoever at the border either returning to the U.K. or entering another country. Thanks for this advice, I will use this when I come off, good to know, cheers. Not had a reply from Police yet but on returning to UK I got through the e-gates for the first time ever. However I've just travelled to Greece and was again stopped. A lot of conversation in Greek between 2 police and I was let through though it was very tense and embarrassing as there was a big queue behind me. When I got through the e-gates coming back last time I thought it had all been sorted, obviously not. This sounds like you have been removed from the UK watch system but presumably still have a live alert on the SISII system. It should drop off over time I think. I think this is something they have to delete, rather than wait for it to expire. I'm not sure who to contact, but the police generally seem to refer all this stuff to an "International Section", maybe at the Home Office, who deal with it. If your former PPU contact doesn't know what to do, try the Data Protection Officer at your local force's HQ, as they will certainly know who deals with it. Just got back to uk and re-experienced the freedom of going through the e-gates for 2nd time - plus when I got home there was a letter from PPU saying 'this alert' has now been removed. Great relief and thanks for all the replies, advice and support I felt from the forum while I went through this discomfort Oh dear, I spoke too soon and had same experience as Scotboy. Just got back from a short break in Schengen area and was stopped at their passport control on both arrival and departure. No probs coming back to UK. So was PPU lying or overclaiming for something outside his control, or are Schengen countries retaining information themselves that our Police can't control? I thought I'd cracked it so it's very dispiriting and depressing I'm still being treated like this 4 months after I came off the SOR. What can I do now? Well, if the alert has to be removed, then if your local PPU is playing dumb, try the Chief Constable, as he/she is responsible for data protection and compliance. It may well then be passed on to the person who deals with it operationally, such as the Data Protection Officer. The fact of the matter is that your personal information seems to be being processed beyond what is allowed by the Data Protection Act 2018, so if the police won't help you, the ICO ought to. Well I did that and got a reply from Police that 'all alerts have definitely been deleted from police computer systems'. I suppose that could imply a) there are things not called 'alerts' which have information about me and that have not been deleted and b) there are systems besides 'police computer systems' that could be holding information causing me to have been stopped. I looked at the ICO website and you seem to have to say who you're complaining about, so if the Police have told me what they have I don't see how I can complain about them so who would my complaint be against? I suppose it's remotely possible that me being stopped was just a random event - twice! - and I will be travelling to the Schengen area again in a couple of weeks and not sure if I should wait to see if I am stopped again before I consider doing anything else, though I'm not sure what I could do now besides pay a solicitor £300 an hour to look into it.... Sorry to hear this. Being optimistic, maybe the alert took a while to get deleted. Or maybe they only deleted it after getting your letter. Let us know what happens on your trip. Well after 3 years of no problems....... as I went through Spanish border control yesterday to fly back to UK and just as the friendly guard was handing me back my passport something was flagged up on his computer screen and he grabbed my passport back, looked concerned, and consulted with his colleague for several minutes about what was on the screen (so holding up 2 queues much to my embarrassment) before handing me back my passport. I can't believe this was anything other than to do with my time on the SOR which ended over 3 years ago.It was quite a shock and soul destroying to think there is something still out there affecting my life and my freedom to travel like anyone else, is there anything left I can do or do I just have to put up with the possibility of this sort of thing happening again? To and fro from Spain for 3 years whilst no longer on the SOR without any hindrance? On this latest occasion something caught the border guard's eye but you weren't engaged in any conversation with the guard? If this were due to some residual flag it would be counter to everything I've been told by my PPU and solicitor. Hopefully some other recent travellers viewing this thread can offer up some reassurance. No I haven't being going to and from Spain for 3 years, I've not been for many years and was not involved in any conversation and I couldn't hear the 2 guards and wouldn't have understood even if I had. I travel regularly abroad and this sort of thing hasn't happened for some time. If you go through this thread you'll see post-SOR I still had problems despite repeated assurances by Police I had my sopo removed some 6 years ago which ended my time on the SOR. I've travelled to a few different European countries for different reasons, France, Italy, Holland and also Ireland but that's not in the Schengan (sp) system. My passport has never worked on the Irish egate system. Sometimes they ask me questions that makes me think I'm flagged, but other times no questions. Italy and France (places I'd never visited while in the SOR) I've never been asked a question. Holland I went while on the SOR but before Brexit and I never got asked anything but after Brexit and after the end of my sor I get asked every time (where I'm going, who I'm seeing, why I'm entering). My paranoia tells me it's to do with my registration but it could also be because I was traveling mid COVID restrictions so that may be it too. On a totally separate note just before COVID I applied for an American ESTA, just to see if I'd get it, no real intention of going, though I may have done had COVID not happened, and it got approved automatically through the system. I know I've had Interpol notices against me while on the SOR so I took that to read that those notices have expired, either that or the American system is not as robust as they would have you think. To answer your question though, I don't know, I don't trust the ppu officers given things they did in the past while on the SOR so I'm never quite certain if everything did get removed or not. Really good reply. Very informative. So you told the Americans that you had a conviction and they still approved your visa? Were there any questions on the ETSA about crimes of moral turpitude? This would suggest that the process is automated and that they just check you against the interpol database. If nothing comes up then you are allowed in, regardless of your offence type. Nope, I lied and said no convictions to the Americans Ah, thanks for clarifying that. So nothing has changed in terms of the USA then. It was always possible to get past their ETSA, because they are not connected to any UK database, so they don't know if you are telling the truth or not.
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expatofff
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11,
Visits: 32
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAll I did was send a registered letter to my PPU and two weeks later I got a reply back saying that any remaining flags had been deleted and that I shouldn’t now have any problems. And since then I haven’t had any issues whatsoever at the border either returning to the U.K. or entering another country. Thanks for this advice, I will use this when I come off, good to know, cheers. Not had a reply from Police yet but on returning to UK I got through the e-gates for the first time ever. However I've just travelled to Greece and was again stopped. A lot of conversation in Greek between 2 police and I was let through though it was very tense and embarrassing as there was a big queue behind me. When I got through the e-gates coming back last time I thought it had all been sorted, obviously not. This sounds like you have been removed from the UK watch system but presumably still have a live alert on the SISII system. It should drop off over time I think. I think this is something they have to delete, rather than wait for it to expire. I'm not sure who to contact, but the police generally seem to refer all this stuff to an "International Section", maybe at the Home Office, who deal with it. If your former PPU contact doesn't know what to do, try the Data Protection Officer at your local force's HQ, as they will certainly know who deals with it. Just got back to uk and re-experienced the freedom of going through the e-gates for 2nd time - plus when I got home there was a letter from PPU saying 'this alert' has now been removed. Great relief and thanks for all the replies, advice and support I felt from the forum while I went through this discomfort Oh dear, I spoke too soon and had same experience as Scotboy. Just got back from a short break in Schengen area and was stopped at their passport control on both arrival and departure. No probs coming back to UK. So was PPU lying or overclaiming for something outside his control, or are Schengen countries retaining information themselves that our Police can't control? I thought I'd cracked it so it's very dispiriting and depressing I'm still being treated like this 4 months after I came off the SOR. What can I do now? Well, if the alert has to be removed, then if your local PPU is playing dumb, try the Chief Constable, as he/she is responsible for data protection and compliance. It may well then be passed on to the person who deals with it operationally, such as the Data Protection Officer. The fact of the matter is that your personal information seems to be being processed beyond what is allowed by the Data Protection Act 2018, so if the police won't help you, the ICO ought to. Well I did that and got a reply from Police that 'all alerts have definitely been deleted from police computer systems'. I suppose that could imply a) there are things not called 'alerts' which have information about me and that have not been deleted and b) there are systems besides 'police computer systems' that could be holding information causing me to have been stopped. I looked at the ICO website and you seem to have to say who you're complaining about, so if the Police have told me what they have I don't see how I can complain about them so who would my complaint be against? I suppose it's remotely possible that me being stopped was just a random event - twice! - and I will be travelling to the Schengen area again in a couple of weeks and not sure if I should wait to see if I am stopped again before I consider doing anything else, though I'm not sure what I could do now besides pay a solicitor £300 an hour to look into it.... Sorry to hear this. Being optimistic, maybe the alert took a while to get deleted. Or maybe they only deleted it after getting your letter. Let us know what happens on your trip. Well after 3 years of no problems....... as I went through Spanish border control yesterday to fly back to UK and just as the friendly guard was handing me back my passport something was flagged up on his computer screen and he grabbed my passport back, looked concerned, and consulted with his colleague for several minutes about what was on the screen (so holding up 2 queues much to my embarrassment) before handing me back my passport. I can't believe this was anything other than to do with my time on the SOR which ended over 3 years ago.It was quite a shock and soul destroying to think there is something still out there affecting my life and my freedom to travel like anyone else, is there anything left I can do or do I just have to put up with the possibility of this sort of thing happening again? To and fro from Spain for 3 years whilst no longer on the SOR without any hindrance? On this latest occasion something caught the border guard's eye but you weren't engaged in any conversation with the guard? If this were due to some residual flag it would be counter to everything I've been told by my PPU and solicitor. Hopefully some other recent travellers viewing this thread can offer up some reassurance. No I haven't being going to and from Spain for 3 years, I've not been for many years and was not involved in any conversation and I couldn't hear the 2 guards and wouldn't have understood even if I had. I travel regularly abroad and this sort of thing hasn't happened for some time. If you go through this thread you'll see post-SOR I still had problems despite repeated assurances by Police I had my sopo removed some 6 years ago which ended my time on the SOR. I've travelled to a few different European countries for different reasons, France, Italy, Holland and also Ireland but that's not in the Schengan (sp) system. My passport has never worked on the Irish egate system. Sometimes they ask me questions that makes me think I'm flagged, but other times no questions. Italy and France (places I'd never visited while in the SOR) I've never been asked a question. Holland I went while on the SOR but before Brexit and I never got asked anything but after Brexit and after the end of my sor I get asked every time (where I'm going, who I'm seeing, why I'm entering). My paranoia tells me it's to do with my registration but it could also be because I was traveling mid COVID restrictions so that may be it too. On a totally separate note just before COVID I applied for an American ESTA, just to see if I'd get it, no real intention of going, though I may have done had COVID not happened, and it got approved automatically through the system. I know I've had Interpol notices against me while on the SOR so I took that to read that those notices have expired, either that or the American system is not as robust as they would have you think. To answer your question though, I don't know, I don't trust the ppu officers given things they did in the past while on the SOR so I'm never quite certain if everything did get removed or not. Really good reply. Very informative. So you told the Americans that you had a conviction and they still approved your visa? Were there any questions on the ETSA about crimes of moral turpitude? This would suggest that the process is automated and that they just check you against the interpol database. If nothing comes up then you are allowed in, regardless of your offence type. Nope, I lied and said no convictions to the Americans Ah, thanks for clarifying that. So nothing has changed in terms of the USA then. It was always possible to get past their ETSA, because they are not connected to any UK database, so they don't know if you are telling the truth or not. Yeah, I more did it to see if the Interpol notices had been removed against me, I assume they did or it wouldn't have been approved.
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Lineofduty
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 69,
Visits: 345
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+xYeah, I more did it to see if the Interpol notices had been removed against me, I assume they did or it wouldn't have been approved. I think it is a fair assumption that by being economical with the truth you can get an ESTA approved. Though I did read somewhere - possibly on the US immigration website - that they now reserve the right to check the internet and or your social media name/s (if you actually provide it) to see if your reason for entry matches with what they've found. I don't expect them to do this with the majority of ESTAS (more perhaps different Visa types) but it does raise the question of whether the "cheerful" Customs Officer who greets you may have probing questions as a result of any such discreet enquiries. I guess the way to test it is for someone to fly via Dublin, where it'll be not far home if it goes wrong.
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Lumer
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1,
Visits: 1
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does anyone know if border controls in the EU have direct access to the uk police database?
I am talking about minor offences in this case.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 7K
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+xdoes anyone know if border controls in the EU have direct access to the uk police database? I am talking about minor offences in this case. They don't. We are not in the EU, so if they want information they have to request it on the proper paperwork.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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LongAgo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 49,
Visits: 3.7K
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+x+xdoes anyone know if border controls in the EU have direct access to the uk police database? I am talking about minor offences in this case. They don't. We are not in the EU, so if they want information they have to request it on the proper paperwork. It's holiday season! Has anyone with recent experience of border checks to European destinations or elsewhere to share? With particular reference to current or former individuals subject to SO notification? I emphasise 'recent' and 'experience ' rather than opinion. Thanks all
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 7K
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+x+x+xdoes anyone know if border controls in the EU have direct access to the uk police database? I am talking about minor offences in this case. They don't. We are not in the EU, so if they want information they have to request it on the proper paperwork. It's holiday season! Has anyone with recent experience of border checks to European destinations or elsewhere to share? With particular reference to current or former individuals subject to SO notification? I emphasise 'recent' and 'experience ' rather than opinion. Thanks all Since you've replied to my post, I can only think that you see it as opinion rather than fact. No, I haven't travelled to the EU since I was convicted, as I'm still on the SOR. However, I pay close attention to threads like this one, and the only problem I've seen appeared to be caused by the police failing to get an alert deleted. Beyond that, it is a fact that the EU does not have access to the PNC since Brexit. They have to request information through the proper channels and they have to justify that request, just like any other foreign jurisdiction would have to do.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Harry
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 86,
Visits: 190
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+x+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? Don't worry too much about this. The Schengen system has not changed. When you notify and travel, an alert is placed against your name/passport on the Schengen information system (SISII). When you enter a schengen zone country and they swipe your passport, it does an online check and will flag up to the border guard. If the border guard has seen a similar alert. he/she will take a couple of minutes to check where you are going and who you are travelling with. If he/she hasn't seen such an alert, they will take a few more minutes reading all the instructions on their screen. Note that this is an alert for a 'Discreet Check'. It does not deny you entry and it does not have any details about your offence. In many of the southern European countries, especially during busy holiday periods, passports are often given a cursory glance and not scanned. Even when they are scanned, the don't always have the full online checks 'turned on'. I suspect what has happened in Greece is that their immigration authorities have now made it mandatory for their border to run the full SISII checks. Of course, many of the guards are now seeing these for the first time - they are meant to discretely check where you are travelling to/from and with whom. Taking photocopies happens sometimes, but not usually. The alert can be seen by all schengen countries but, as I said, it is an alert for a 'discreet check' and has no other information about you or your offence. It's a joke of a system as it is never discreet! These alerts are time stamped and expire. Once you are off the SOR, they will not be visible on SISII any more - you do not need to do anything, although can always ask your PPU to confirm they have removed them all. SISII will have the alert information in its archived records for x years, but they cannot be accessed online during normal immigration work and there are tight controls about access to historical records. I am happy to see your reply about once my 10 SOR finishes it will not sauce a problem, only on a visa elsewhere when they ask "Have you ever had a conviction or been refused entry?". That is a big problem. Do you admit to it or say nothing hoping they have no means of checking? I want to go back to China and India, but I would be scared to lie.
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Harry
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 86,
Visits: 190
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I read recently that the new visa we have to buy for Schengen countries will be asking about criminal records. Does Unlock have more information about this recent announcement?
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Harry
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 86,
Visits: 190
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+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? I went to Athens last year and also got taken away the the police office. I waited ages as they got on the phone to try and establish what they should do with me. Luckily all was well and my taxi driver waited. Not a comfortable experience though. 2 years ago I got stopped at malaga whilst travelling with my best lady friend, who knows nothing about my past. It was stressful and I told her I had no idea why they delayed my entry. On leaving Spain (alone) I again got held up with lots of questions. I have 3 years to go on my SOR and cannot wait. As I mainly travel to Asia I am ok travelling as I avoid Europe, but in the future I might holiday in non EU countries. There are quite a few, if things get tricky.
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