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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xSorry you had to go through that flustered, particularly as you finished the SoR quite a few months ago. It sounds like you still have some sort of flag on your passport. As you don’t have to notify travel anymore it unfortunately sounds more like an Interpol Green Notice than an article 36 Schengen information system alert.My suggestion is to speak to whoever was your contact at PPU (the people who visited you when you were on the register). If you have their email address you could send something along the following lines  ear xxx,As I finished my notification requirements in February 2019 I would like to clarify an aspect following a trip to a Schengen area country a few weeks ago where I was questioned about my history following my passport being flagged at immigration.As per Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union, Principle 5 of the Data Protection Act (1988) and Section 2.9 of the European Commission’s Implementing Decision 2015/219, can you please confirm that any and all Schengen Information System Article 36 travel alerts and Interpol Green Notices are deleted from the PNC and any associated databases such as the Home Office watchlist and Schengen Information System without delay.That should work. I think I might have to do write something similar as based on past experience noone will hurry to change anything. I looked at what you quoted but couldn't see the relevance of Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamantal Rights - which is 'slavery and forced labour' - assume you mistyped the number? I'll be travelling within 2 weeks of my end date so that'll be my first test. I've had 2 x 2 very awkward and distressing times going in and out of France and Norway since I started this thread and just want to see an end to it all, it is getting me down now I'm retired and want to travel as much as possible while i'm still well enough to. As I'm a bit paranoid about these matters, what can I do if I continue to be stopped entering and exiting other EU countries and still get questioned on my return? I'd think the first thing to do would be to contact your local police contact and ask them why your details have not been removed from the Schengen system. Don't let them fob you off, make sure they follow it up with whoever they dealt with to get your details on the system in the first place. As this is all about data, I'd say the correct article would be Article 7 (Protection of Personal Data).
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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forever changes
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 561,
Visits: 101
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+xSorry you had to go through that flustered, particularly as you finished the SoR quite a few months ago. It sounds like you still have some sort of flag on your passport. As you don’t have to notify travel anymore it unfortunately sounds more like an Interpol Green Notice than an article 36 Schengen information system alert.My suggestion is to speak to whoever was your contact at PPU (the people who visited you when you were on the register). If you have their email address you could send something along the following lines ear xxx,As I finished my notification requirements in February 2019 I would like to clarify an aspect following a trip to a Schengen area country a few weeks ago where I was questioned about my history following my passport being flagged at immigration.As per Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union, Principle 5 of the Data Protection Act (1988) and Section 2.9 of the European Commission’s Implementing Decision 2015/219, can you please confirm that any and all Schengen Information System Article 36 travel alerts and Interpol Green Notices are deleted from the PNC and any associated databases such as the Home Office watchlist and Schengen Information System without delay.That should work. I think I might have to do write something similar as based on past experience noone will hurry to change anything. I looked at what you quoted but couldn't see the relevance of Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamantal Rights - which is 'slavery and forced labour' - assume you mistyped the number? I'll be travelling within 2 weeks of my end date so that'll be my first test. I've had 2 x 2 very awkward and distressing times going in and out of France and Norway since I started this thread and just want to see an end to it all, it is getting me down now I'm retired and want to travel as much as possible while i'm still well enough to. As I'm a bit paranoid about these matters, what can I do if I continue to be stopped entering and exiting other EU countries and still get questioned on my return?
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BenS
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 301,
Visits: 2.9K
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+x+xSorry you had to go through that flustered, particularly as you finished the SoR quite a few months ago. It sounds like you still have some sort of flag on your passport. As you don’t have to notify travel anymore it unfortunately sounds more like an Interpol Green Notice than an article 36 Schengen information system alert.My suggestion is to speak to whoever was your contact at PPU (the people who visited you when you were on the register). If you have their email address you could send something along the following lines ear xxx,As I finished my notification requirements in February 2019 I would like to clarify an aspect following a trip to a Schengen area country a few weeks ago where I was questioned about my history following my passport being flagged at immigration.As per Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union, Principle 5 of the Data Protection Act (1988) and Section 2.9 of the European Commission’s Implementing Decision 2015/219, can you please confirm that any and all Schengen Information System Article 36 travel alerts and Interpol Green Notices are deleted from the PNC and any associated databases such as the Home Office watchlist and Schengen Information System without delay.That should work. As we're still in the EU, and so is Greece, there should be no Interpol green notice. There might well still be a reference on SIS that should have been removed but hasn't been. Agreed - it is in those police manuals that have been linked here before, that Interpol notices are only issued (if at all, as it's discretionary) to non-EU, non-Schengen travel, and there should be no Interpol notice if you never travelled outside the EU or Schengen while on the register. It's disheartening to read your passport flagged, as I have read other stories where people have travelled days after finishing notifying, with no problems. Hopefully it's just a case of "forgetting" to delete the data from SIS and will be resolved. It would be great if you could let us know what happens as a number of people on here are anticipating the end of notification, thanks!
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.3K
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+xSorry you had to go through that flustered, particularly as you finished the SoR quite a few months ago. It sounds like you still have some sort of flag on your passport. As you don’t have to notify travel anymore it unfortunately sounds more like an Interpol Green Notice than an article 36 Schengen information system alert.My suggestion is to speak to whoever was your contact at PPU (the people who visited you when you were on the register). If you have their email address you could send something along the following lines ear xxx,As I finished my notification requirements in February 2019 I would like to clarify an aspect following a trip to a Schengen area country a few weeks ago where I was questioned about my history following my passport being flagged at immigration.As per Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union, Principle 5 of the Data Protection Act (1988) and Section 2.9 of the European Commission’s Implementing Decision 2015/219, can you please confirm that any and all Schengen Information System Article 36 travel alerts and Interpol Green Notices are deleted from the PNC and any associated databases such as the Home Office watchlist and Schengen Information System without delay.That should work. As we're still in the EU, and so is Greece, there should be no Interpol green notice. There might well still be a reference on SIS that should have been removed but hasn't been.
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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JohnL
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 78,
Visits: 1K
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Sorry you had to go through that flustered, particularly as you finished the SoR quite a few months ago. It sounds like you still have some sort of flag on your passport. As you don’t have to notify travel anymore it unfortunately sounds more like an Interpol Green Notice than an article 36 Schengen information system alert.
My suggestion is to speak to whoever was your contact at PPU (the people who visited you when you were on the register). If you have their email address you could send something along the following lines:
Dear xxx,
As I finished my notification requirements in February 2019 I would like to clarify an aspect following a trip to a Schengen area country a few weeks ago where I was questioned about my history following my passport being flagged at immigration.
As per Article 5 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union, Principle 5 of the Data Protection Act (1988) and Section 2.9 of the European Commission’s Implementing Decision 2015/219, can you please confirm that any and all Schengen Information System Article 36 travel alerts and Interpol Green Notices are deleted from the PNC and any associated databases such as the Home Office watchlist and Schengen Information System without delay.
That should work.
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flustered
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? Don't worry too much about this. The Schengen system has not changed. When you notify and travel, an alert is placed against your name/passport on the Schengen information system (SISII). When you enter a schengen zone country and they swipe your passport, it does an online check and will flag up to the border guard. If the border guard has seen a similar alert. he/she will take a couple of minutes to check where you are going and who you are travelling with. If he/she hasn't seen such an alert, they will take a few more minutes reading all the instructions on their screen. Note that this is an alert for a 'Discreet Check'. It does not deny you entry and it does not have any details about your offence. In many of the southern European countries, especially during busy holiday periods, passports are often given a cursory glance and not scanned. Even when they are scanned, the don't always have the full online checks 'turned on'. I suspect what has happened in Greece is that their immigration authorities have now made it mandatory for their border to run the full SISII checks. Of course, many of the guards are now seeing these for the first time - they are meant to discretely check where you are travelling to/from and with whom. Taking photocopies happens sometimes, but not usually. The alert can be seen by all schengen countries but, as I said, it is an alert for a 'discreet check' and has no other information about you or your offence. It's a joke of a system as it is never discreet! These alerts are time stamped and expire. Once you are off the SOR, they will not be visible on SISII any more - you do not need to do anything, although can always ask your PPU to confirm they have removed them all. SISII will have the alert information in its archived records for x years, but they cannot be accessed online during normal immigration work and there are tight controls about access to historical records. Hi, My SOR finished in February this year, but when I arrived in greece yesterday I experienced almost exactly what the OP said. I assume that this means the flags are still on my passport? It was really embarrassing and frustrating at the time.
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AB2014
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 8.3K
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+x+x+x+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? Don't worry too much about this. The Schengen system has not changed. When you notify and travel, an alert is placed against your name/passport on the Schengen information system (SISII). When you enter a schengen zone country and they swipe your passport, it does an online check and will flag up to the border guard. If the border guard has seen a similar alert. he/she will take a couple of minutes to check where you are going and who you are travelling with. If he/she hasn't seen such an alert, they will take a few more minutes reading all the instructions on their screen. Note that this is an alert for a 'Discreet Check'. It does not deny you entry and it does not have any details about your offence. In many of the southern European countries, especially during busy holiday periods, passports are often given a cursory glance and not scanned. Even when they are scanned, the don't always have the full online checks 'turned on'. I suspect what has happened in Greece is that their immigration authorities have now made it mandatory for their border to run the full SISII checks. Of course, many of the guards are now seeing these for the first time - they are meant to discretely check where you are travelling to/from and with whom. Taking photocopies happens sometimes, but not usually. The alert can be seen by all schengen countries but, as I said, it is an alert for a 'discreet check' and has no other information about you or your offence. It's a joke of a system as it is never discreet! These alerts are time stamped and expire. Once you are off the SOR, they will not be visible on SISII any more - you do not need to do anything, although can always ask your PPU to confirm they have removed them all. SISII will have the alert information in its archived records for x years, but they cannot be accessed online during normal immigration work and there are tight controls about access to historical records. Having now done a bit of research I presume the SISII referred to is "Persons and objects for discreet or specific checks (Article 36 of Council Decision 2007/533/JHA) The purpose of this alert is to obtain information on persons or related objects for the purposes of prosecuting criminal offences and for the prevention of threats to public or national security."
If that is the case what has the fact of being on the SOR got to do with that stated purpose, especially if your conviction is spent? Another way to ask the same question is: 'Why are the SOR notification timeframes longer than the rehabilitation periods for the offence?". That is, why can we deem someone rehabilitated after 5 years but insist they are a risk and must be monitored for 7-10 years on the SOR? On SISII alerts, the police have taken the easy way out. As the alerts don't stop someone from travelling, they automatically issue them to save themselves having to go through a risk management process for every individual and every trip. On the point of the notification period, I'm not the first person on here to mention the rules for ETIAS when it starts. Only offences in the last 10 years, even if you are on the SOR indefinitely....
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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)
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Yankee
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 232,
Visits: 994
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+x+x+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? Don't worry too much about this. The Schengen system has not changed. When you notify and travel, an alert is placed against your name/passport on the Schengen information system (SISII). When you enter a schengen zone country and they swipe your passport, it does an online check and will flag up to the border guard. If the border guard has seen a similar alert. he/she will take a couple of minutes to check where you are going and who you are travelling with. If he/she hasn't seen such an alert, they will take a few more minutes reading all the instructions on their screen. Note that this is an alert for a 'Discreet Check'. It does not deny you entry and it does not have any details about your offence. In many of the southern European countries, especially during busy holiday periods, passports are often given a cursory glance and not scanned. Even when they are scanned, the don't always have the full online checks 'turned on'. I suspect what has happened in Greece is that their immigration authorities have now made it mandatory for their border to run the full SISII checks. Of course, many of the guards are now seeing these for the first time - they are meant to discretely check where you are travelling to/from and with whom. Taking photocopies happens sometimes, but not usually. The alert can be seen by all schengen countries but, as I said, it is an alert for a 'discreet check' and has no other information about you or your offence. It's a joke of a system as it is never discreet! These alerts are time stamped and expire. Once you are off the SOR, they will not be visible on SISII any more - you do not need to do anything, although can always ask your PPU to confirm they have removed them all. SISII will have the alert information in its archived records for x years, but they cannot be accessed online during normal immigration work and there are tight controls about access to historical records. Having now done a bit of research I presume the SISII referred to is "Persons and objects for discreet or specific checks (Article 36 of Council Decision 2007/533/JHA) The purpose of this alert is to obtain information on persons or related objects for the purposes of prosecuting criminal offences and for the prevention of threats to public or national security."
If that is the case what has the fact of being on the SOR got to do with that stated purpose, especially if your conviction is spent? Another way to ask the same question is: 'Why are the SOR notification timeframes longer than the rehabilitation periods for the offence?". That is, why can we deem someone rehabilitated after 5 years but insist they are a risk and must be monitored for 7-10 years on the SOR? On SISII alerts, the police have taken the easy way out. As the alerts don't stop someone from travelling, they automatically issue them to save themselves having to go through a risk management process for every individual and every trip.
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BenS
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 301,
Visits: 2.9K
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+xHaving now done a bit of research I presume the SISII referred to is "Persons and objects for discreet or specific checks (Article 36 of Council Decision 2007/533/JHA) The purpose of this alert is to obtain information on persons or related objects for the purposes of prosecuting criminal offences and for the prevention of threats to public or national security."
If that is the case what has the fact of being on the SOR got to do with that stated purpose, especially if your conviction is spent? Because according to governments worldwide and the Daily Mail, we are a permanent threat to public and national security, regardless of how much time has passed and how minor the offence was.
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forever changes
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 561,
Visits: 101
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+x+xI have just been to Greece and I was stopped on entry at passport control and told to stand to one side. After about 5 minutes the officer came out of his booth and asked in front of and within earshot of other travellers if I had "had some trouble with the Police". I asked to be able to talk somewhere more discreetly and told him I was on SOR (at least I soon won' t be anymore thankfully). I felt very uncomfortable telling him anything not knowing what he knew about me and why I was being asked this and what the effect my answer would have. I was subsequently asked to provide evidence of all my booking details, boarding pass, where I was staying etc and this was taken away, photocopied and returned to me. All this took 30 -40 minutes and I was warned I would be stopped again when I left the country, and worrying about that certainly made me enjoy my holiday less. He also explained that since April 6th this was a new procedure in Greece applying Schengen area rules. I missed my transfer to the hotel and had to get a 20 euro taxi and make up an excuse to the travel rep as to why I was late. On leaving Greece I was stopped again at passport control holding up a lot of people in the queue behind me while the officer got on the phone to someone for about 5 minutes and then photographed my passport and boarding pass without saying or explaining anything to me while I just waited nervously and embarrassed. God know what the ppl behind me thought. I intend to travel elsewhere in Schengen area this year so I am anxious as to what it is going to be like when I arrive and depart and how I can be better prepared / informed. For starters I'll be taking copies of all holiday documents to give them so I don't have to wait for them to be photocopied. I gather from reading the part of the forum that I can access that there might be something called a Schengen notice or green flag / notice on my passport, but I am not clear what this means in terms of who put this on my passport and what info it gives. I'm worried how the information will be used in future, if it'll be stored, shared among Schengen countries etc, I'm also worried they could create their own 'flag' on me after my time on SOR ends. BTW will the flag/notice automatically be removed when my term on the SOR ends or do I have to take some action myself to get it removed? Don't worry too much about this. The Schengen system has not changed. When you notify and travel, an alert is placed against your name/passport on the Schengen information system (SISII). When you enter a schengen zone country and they swipe your passport, it does an online check and will flag up to the border guard. If the border guard has seen a similar alert. he/she will take a couple of minutes to check where you are going and who you are travelling with. If he/she hasn't seen such an alert, they will take a few more minutes reading all the instructions on their screen. Note that this is an alert for a 'Discreet Check'. It does not deny you entry and it does not have any details about your offence. In many of the southern European countries, especially during busy holiday periods, passports are often given a cursory glance and not scanned. Even when they are scanned, the don't always have the full online checks 'turned on'. I suspect what has happened in Greece is that their immigration authorities have now made it mandatory for their border to run the full SISII checks. Of course, many of the guards are now seeing these for the first time - they are meant to discretely check where you are travelling to/from and with whom. Taking photocopies happens sometimes, but not usually. The alert can be seen by all schengen countries but, as I said, it is an alert for a 'discreet check' and has no other information about you or your offence. It's a joke of a system as it is never discreet! These alerts are time stamped and expire. Once you are off the SOR, they will not be visible on SISII any more - you do not need to do anything, although can always ask your PPU to confirm they have removed them all. SISII will have the alert information in its archived records for x years, but they cannot be accessed online during normal immigration work and there are tight controls about access to historical records. Having now done a bit of research I presume the SISII referred to is "Persons and objects for discreet or specific checks (Article 36 of Council Decision 2007/533/JHA) The purpose of this alert is to obtain information on persons or related objects for the purposes of prosecuting criminal offences and for the prevention of threats to public or national security."
If that is the case what has the fact of being on the SOR got to do with that stated purpose, especially if your conviction is spent?
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