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Get out of lockdown free pass (To see probation officer)


Get out of lockdown free pass (To see probation officer)

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JASB
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alexh07 - 14 May 20 6:56 PM
Unfortunately I'm still experiencing great incompetence with my new area probation team which is reflecting bad on me through no fault of my own. This is not ideal as my previous supervisor is in talks of reviewing my supervision at the half way point for an early closure due to there being no problems whatsover and quite frankly, the probation element being an obvious waste of everyones time (in his own words)

After all the messing about at the start of the pandemic, and the first failed home visit (no one turned up or phoned then they tried to blame me for not being in), I was given a second home visit by email and letter. Someone phoned me at the designated time and said he will be round in a minute, I waited and hour (for the second time) and no one turned up or phoned me back

Didn't hear anything for 2 weeks until today I had 1 missed call from my new supervisor when I was shopping/driving and my phone was on silent. No second attempt at a call or text or email to me but rather, they again went straight and wrote out an email to my previous supervision officer in Scotland saying that they can't get a hold of me. He phoned up rather frustated wondering why I wasn't able to answer the completely random one attempt at a phonecall

Hopefully now that restrictions are beginning to relax they will be able to waste everyones council tax in a more structured format rather than the random phonecalls (and when they go home for an early finish and pretend they turned up at your house) which give you black marks for not waiting by the phone 24/7



Hi
Alex,

We all know this is a tactic the PPU use to add pressure on us to gain a reaction or to "catch you out".

A previous PPU officer once gave me a date and time for a home visit. It was in the afternoon so in the morning I went out; motorbike to the garage. Mid morning I got an "angry" phone call saying I had missed a meeting by not being at home when they visited! I simply and politely replied "that he had booked it for the afternoon so I had gone out knowing I would be back in time." I also offered to forward his "booking" email back to him. His voice soften and said his meetings had changed so was available to see me earlier, and so went to my home expecting me to be there. I replied I would be back in plenty of time for the arranged meeting but he just canceled it as he couldn't visit me in the afternoon. Also no PPU has informed me when a meeting would take place since. 

I am assuming that the missed call was an unknown number, but even if it was not I would consider the following. Just create 2 "default" email templates that are polite and respectful.
  • If they showed a number so you knew it was them you could word it directly saying "you apologize for missing their call but as they left no message you decided to contact asking if the call was a mistake or wished to talk? "You could also include the reason you could not take the call. 
  • If no number was displayed then simple say "you had a missed call from an unknown number and wondered if it was them trying to contact you?" Again provide the reason you did not take the call or simple say you are getting so many scam calls you ignore unknown numbers now." The final part is important as it is part of your self imposed "security and protection" that many in society do; but they will get annoyed.
As I mentioned previously, keep a diary of the events and reactions in a simple, brief and non-emotional manner. Quote names and times. This can be used as supporting evidence at the appropriate time.

I recently had a request from my new PPU officer which by law I am not required to comply with. I have historically worked with them on this subject on condition of the previous words. In their latest conversation I mention they were just trying to "catch me out" and said you just don't trust me! - though I assure you there is nothing for them to catch me out on, just poorly worded by me. Their reply was they are not trying to catch me out and do trust me.

I then said
"why will you not provide a date and time for our meeting instead of just knocking on the door?"


They replied 
"We don't work that way!"


Unfortunately we are judged for our past errors so no matter what, we have to react with dignity, grace and maturity; three characteristics the system has attempted to and will try to remove from us. 
To finish remember this in your "interviews with others" as it may help you see both sides of questions:
There is no thing as truth, there is only the individual's perception of the truth


Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Alan Watts
Alan Watts
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JASB - 15 May 20 5:44 PM
alexh07 - 14 May 20 6:56 PM
Unfortunately I'm still experiencing great incompetence with my new area probation team which is reflecting bad on me through no fault of my own. This is not ideal as my previous supervisor is in talks of reviewing my supervision at the half way point for an early closure due to there being no problems whatsover and quite frankly, the probation element being an obvious waste of everyones time (in his own words)

After all the messing about at the start of the pandemic, and the first failed home visit (no one turned up or phoned then they tried to blame me for not being in), I was given a second home visit by email and letter. Someone phoned me at the designated time and said he will be round in a minute, I waited and hour (for the second time) and no one turned up or phoned me back

Didn't hear anything for 2 weeks until today I had 1 missed call from my new supervisor when I was shopping/driving and my phone was on silent. No second attempt at a call or text or email to me but rather, they again went straight and wrote out an email to my previous supervision officer in Scotland saying that they can't get a hold of me. He phoned up rather frustated wondering why I wasn't able to answer the completely random one attempt at a phonecall

Hopefully now that restrictions are beginning to relax they will be able to waste everyones council tax in a more structured format rather than the random phonecalls (and when they go home for an early finish and pretend they turned up at your house) which give you black marks for not waiting by the phone 24/7



Hi
Alex,

We all know this is a tactic the PPU use to add pressure on us to gain a reaction or to "catch you out".

A previous PPU officer once gave me a date and time for a home visit. It was in the afternoon so in the morning I went out; motorbike to the garage. Mid morning I got an "angry" phone call saying I had missed a meeting by not being at home when they visited! I simply and politely replied "that he had booked it for the afternoon so I had gone out knowing I would be back in time." I also offered to forward his "booking" email back to him. His voice soften and said his meetings had changed so was available to see me earlier, and so went to my home expecting me to be there. I replied I would be back in plenty of time for the arranged meeting but he just canceled it as he couldn't visit me in the afternoon. Also no PPU has informed me when a meeting would take place since. 
  • If they showed a number so you knew it was them you could word it directly saying "you apologize for missing their call but as they left no message you decided to contact asking if the call was a mistake or wished to talk? "You could also include the reason you could not take the call. 
  • If no number was displayed then simple say "you had a missed call from an unknown number and wondered if it was them trying to contact you?" Again provide the reason you did not take the call or simple say you are getting so many scam calls you ignore unknown numbers now." The final part is important as it is part of your self imposed "security and protection" that many in society do; but they will get annoyed.
As I mentioned previously, keep a diary of the events and reactions in a simple, brief and non-emotional manner. Quote names and times. This can be used as supporting evidence at the appropriate time.

I recently had a request from my new PPU officer which by law I am not required to comply with. I have historically worked with them on this subject on condition of the previous words. In their latest conversation I mention they were just trying to "catch me out" and said you just don't trust me! - though I assure you there is nothing for them to catch me out on, just poorly worded by me. Their reply was they are not trying to catch me out and do trust me.

I then said
"why will you not provide a date and time for our meeting instead of just knocking on the door?"


They replied 
"We don't work that way!"


Unfortunately we are judged for our past errors so no matter what, we have to react with dignity, grace and maturity; three characteristics the system has attempted to and will try to remove from us. 
To finish remember this in your "interviews with others" as it may help you see both sides of questions:
There is no thing as truth, there is only the individual's perception of the truth

Thank you for an insight on your experiences which are similar to mine JASB, it's very helpful to vent and see that we are not alone. I don't think that it was right or productive for them to treat you that way with the last minute change to your appointment implying that you should be in all day waiting for them. They have wasted a lot of my time in similar ways with me waiting and waiting. Had I been working I'm not sure how I could cope with it all

It's frustrating that in some cases incompetence on their part and through no fault of our own they can make us out to feel like we have done something wrong even years after the offences which we are trying our best to move on from and comply with the "rehabilitation". It's not the end of the world and I suppose the best way to deal with it is just to laugh and remember to try our best to comply with them
JASB
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alexh07 - 16 May 20 2:03 PM
JASB - 15 May 20 5:44 PM
alexh07 - 14 May 20 6:56 PM
Unfortunately I'm still experiencing great incompetence with my new area probation team which is reflecting bad on me through no fault of my own. This is not ideal as my previous supervisor is in talks of reviewing my supervision at the half way point for an early closure due to there being no problems whatsover and quite frankly, the probation element being an obvious waste of everyones time (in his own words)

After all the messing about at the start of the pandemic, and the first failed home visit (no one turned up or phoned then they tried to blame me for not being in), I was given a second home visit by email and letter. Someone phoned me at the designated time and said he will be round in a minute, I waited and hour (for the second time) and no one turned up or phoned me back

Didn't hear anything for 2 weeks until today I had 1 missed call from my new supervisor when I was shopping/driving and my phone was on silent. No second attempt at a call or text or email to me but rather, they again went straight and wrote out an email to my previous supervision officer in Scotland saying that they can't get a hold of me. He phoned up rather frustated wondering why I wasn't able to answer the completely random one attempt at a phonecall

Hopefully now that restrictions are beginning to relax they will be able to waste everyones council tax in a more structured format rather than the random phonecalls (and when they go home for an early finish and pretend they turned up at your house) which give you black marks for not waiting by the phone 24/7



Hi
Alex,

We all know this is a tactic the PPU use to add pressure on us to gain a reaction or to "catch you out".

A previous PPU officer once gave me a date and time for a home visit. It was in the afternoon so in the morning I went out; motorbike to the garage. Mid morning I got an "angry" phone call saying I had missed a meeting by not being at home when they visited! I simply and politely replied "that he had booked it for the afternoon so I had gone out knowing I would be back in time." I also offered to forward his "booking" email back to him. His voice soften and said his meetings had changed so was available to see me earlier, and so went to my home expecting me to be there. I replied I would be back in plenty of time for the arranged meeting but he just canceled it as he couldn't visit me in the afternoon. Also no PPU has informed me when a meeting would take place since. 
  • If they showed a number so you knew it was them you could word it directly saying "you apologize for missing their call but as they left no message you decided to contact asking if the call was a mistake or wished to talk? "You could also include the reason you could not take the call. 
  • If no number was displayed then simple say "you had a missed call from an unknown number and wondered if it was them trying to contact you?" Again provide the reason you did not take the call or simple say you are getting so many scam calls you ignore unknown numbers now." The final part is important as it is part of your self imposed "security and protection" that many in society do; but they will get annoyed.
As I mentioned previously, keep a diary of the events and reactions in a simple, brief and non-emotional manner. Quote names and times. This can be used as supporting evidence at the appropriate time.

I recently had a request from my new PPU officer which by law I am not required to comply with. I have historically worked with them on this subject on condition of the previous words. In their latest conversation I mention they were just trying to "catch me out" and said you just don't trust me! - though I assure you there is nothing for them to catch me out on, just poorly worded by me. Their reply was they are not trying to catch me out and do trust me.

I then said
"why will you not provide a date and time for our meeting instead of just knocking on the door?"


They replied 
"We don't work that way!"


Unfortunately we are judged for our past errors so no matter what, we have to react with dignity, grace and maturity; three characteristics the system has attempted to and will try to remove from us. 
To finish remember this in your "interviews with others" as it may help you see both sides of questions:
There is no thing as truth, there is only the individual's perception of the truth

Thank you for an insight on your experiences which are similar to mine JASB, it's very helpful to vent and see that we are not alone. I don't think that it was right or productive for them to treat you that way with the last minute change to your appointment implying that you should be in all day waiting for them. They have wasted a lot of my time in similar ways with me waiting and waiting. Had I been working I'm not sure how I could cope with it all

It's frustrating that in some cases incompetence on their part and through no fault of our own they can make us out to feel like we have done something wrong even years after the offences which we are trying our best to move on from and comply with the "rehabilitation". It's not the end of the world and I suppose the best way to deal with it is just to laugh and remember to try our best to comply with them

Hi
Thanks and yes take comfort that it is common practice.
In my opinion, it is not as you say "incompetence". I could accept that it is possible a singular occurrence could be classed as that but, as you discover by reading the posts throughout this forum, that is not the case.

Remember we may all, as you say "vent", but that word supports the perception of the "authorities" presenting ex-offenders as argumentative, in denial and understanding of the reasons for monitoring etc. I prefer to think our emotionally stressed words are more of informing others of our concerns and seeking to find support and learn from those, who are possibly greater at ease when managing their emotions in these scenarios; whilst complying with any conditions.

I always think that
it is not being critical to constructively question.
   



Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Alan Watts
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Update: I'm still very disheartened with my experience of probation with moving area from Scotland to England. In my old area the OM/social worker was very understanding and helpful but in the new one it seems a mix of incompetence, messing me about and trying to antagonise on purpose.

In my previous area my compliance was rewarded with the meetings going down to once every few weeks but disappointingly in my new area the phonecalls have remained weekly for 7 months, and now I have started having face-to-face appointments again as well. I was told that since I was low-risk I would not need to attend the office in the near future, but then the following week I was told I have to go again. I explained that I already have a holiday booked and planned on the specific week but this just seemed to make them more determined to ruin my plans and force me to come in for a pointless 2 minute chat like all of the other ones. Nothing constructive has came from my experience in the new area other than preventing me from moving on from my offence which was 4 years ago.

I feel this is a shame as the unpaid work and previous social-worker interaction element of my sentence was a much more constructive and rehabilitive experience, whereas probation in the new area carries a lot more negative feelings such as frustration and causing me to hate the system.

Was
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alexh07 - 1 Oct 20 5:36 AM
Update: I'm still very disheartened with my experience of probation with moving area from Scotland to England. In my old area the OM/social worker was very understanding and helpful but in the new one it seems a mix of incompetence, messing me about and trying to antagonise on purpose.

Just for interest, and without giving away your location, were you dealt with by the National Probation Service or one of the 21 outsource companies? 


JASB
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alexh07 - 1 Oct 20 5:36 AM
Update: I'm still very disheartened with my experience of probation with moving area from Scotland to England. In my old area the OM/social worker was very understanding and helpful but in the new one it seems a mix of incompetence, messing me about and trying to antagonise on purpose.

In my previous area my compliance was rewarded with the meetings going down to once every few weeks but disappointingly in my new area the phonecalls have remained weekly for 7 months, and now I have started having face-to-face appointments again as well. I was told that since I was low-risk I would not need to attend the office in the near future, but then the following week I was told I have to go again. I explained that I already have a holiday booked and planned on the specific week but this just seemed to make them more determined to ruin my plans and force me to come in for a pointless 2 minute chat like all of the other ones. Nothing constructive has came from my experience in the new area other than preventing me from moving on from my offence which was 4 years ago.

I feel this is a shame as the unpaid work and previous social-worker interaction element of my sentence was a much more constructive and rehabilitive experience, whereas probation in the new area carries a lot more negative feelings such as frustration and causing me to hate the system.

Hi Alan

I am afraid that our experiences are similar. When i relocated it was if they had no history to read. 
I was surprised by the words said to me by the OM after moving that each area does not trust any other area.
In reality  I believe any new authority wants to impose themselves on the new person, the same manner as a new boss coming into a workplace. They are trying to enforce their authority over you.

Do not give in to disappointment else you will never reach the end. maintain the control and discipline you have developed since your offence. Focus on your self belief and do not doubt the character you have rediscovered during your rehabilitation process.

Remember there is always a reason or process being followed to test/stress you to see if you will revert to offending again. They will not accept responsibility for their "regressive interview techniques" as being an influence if you do. 
 
Your rehabilitation has shown you the truth about yourself. You can listen to your doubters but you do not have to believe them 


Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
Alan Watts
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Was - 1 Oct 20 8:43 AM
Just for interest, and without giving away your location, were you dealt with by the National Probation Service or one of the 21 outsource companies? 


My letters and the office I attend have the NPS logo on them but I couldn't be 100% if the staff I have dealt with have been outsourced. Either way I see it as a pen-pushing exercise to keep someone in taxpayer funded employment.

JASB - 1 Oct 20 10:24 AM
Do not give in to disappointment else you will never reach the end. maintain the control and discipline you have developed since your offence. Focus on your self belief and do not doubt the character you have rediscovered during your rehabilitation process.

Remember there is always a reason or process being followed to test/stress you to see if you will revert to offending again. They will not accept responsibility for their "regressive interview techniques" as being an influence if you do. 
 
Your rehabilitation has shown you the truth about yourself. You can listen to your doubters but you do not have to believe them 

I understand the questioning techniques used to push answers out of me but I will never understand the antagonistic approach to test us, this just leaves me feeling guilty and in a bad mood which means I am less inclined to contribute anything to society and it removes all guilt from screwing the benefit system because the country screwed me.

It would seem the world has gone mad where the small fish such as ourselves are made to feel like a bad person for years over a mistake, yet the real criminals are allowed to destroy livelihoods and profit from it without consequence.



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I see the trying to impose control. Situation was at f2f appointment I was told I no longer need to attend f2f appointments due to the pandemic and being low-risk. Following week during the phonecall the second I mentioned I had arranged plans to visit family etc was told I need to come in for an appointment that week, and it HAS to be that week. Explained I couldn't and was sent a letter with the appointment on a date I will be away from the area
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alexh07 - 1 Oct 20 4:46 PM
Was - 1 Oct 20 8:43 AM
Just for interest, and without giving away your location, were you dealt with by the National Probation Service or one of the 21 outsource companies? 


My letters and the office I attend have the NPS logo on them but I couldn't be 100% if the staff I have dealt with have been outsourced. Either way I see it as a pen-pushing exercise to keep someone in taxpayer funded employment.

JASB - 1 Oct 20 10:24 AM
Do not give in to disappointment else you will never reach the end. maintain the control and discipline you have developed since your offence. Focus on your self belief and do not doubt the character you have rediscovered during your rehabilitation process.

Remember there is always a reason or process being followed to test/stress you to see if you will revert to offending again. They will not accept responsibility for their "regressive interview techniques" as being an influence if you do. 
 
Your rehabilitation has shown you the truth about yourself. You can listen to your doubters but you do not have to believe them 

I understand the questioning techniques used to push answers out of me but I will never understand the antagonistic approach to test us, this just leaves me feeling guilty and in a bad mood which means I am less inclined to contribute anything to society and it removes all guilt from screwing the benefit system because the country screwed me.

It would seem the world has gone mad where the small fish such as ourselves are made to feel like a bad person for years over a mistake, yet the real criminals are allowed to destroy livelihoods and profit from it without consequence.



Hi
I am pleased you understand my thoughts on the reasons for their manner of questioning.

What you must do; and I know from personal experience, is work on your "own quality of life" which will assist in maintaining your self belief. 

I wrote to my OM asking why they use this technique as it is known to be non productive for the individual; but as yet no response. There have and probably still is, cases were the individual has admitted to offences they did not commit purely on the influence of the technique. In other words they became confused on the actual truth because of the constant barrage of accusations and so their recollection is manipulated.
I found the below quote which I try to keep focused on when this type of question has been used. 
There is no such thing as truth as it is the perception of the individual
 

I know they form an opinion via the words of the "victim", so they do not know the truth. However my experience through this process is that other factors provide a bias for their beliefs so an "expansion" of the truth is developed. That is why I remember the quote.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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JASB - 2 Oct 20 9:56 AM
alexh07 - 1 Oct 20 4:46 PM
Was - 1 Oct 20 8:43 AM
Just for interest, and without giving away your location, were you dealt with by the National Probation Service or one of the 21 outsource companies? 


My letters and the office I attend have the NPS logo on them but I couldn't be 100% if the staff I have dealt with have been outsourced. Either way I see it as a pen-pushing exercise to keep someone in taxpayer funded employment.

JASB - 1 Oct 20 10:24 AM
Do not give in to disappointment else you will never reach the end. maintain the control and discipline you have developed since your offence. Focus on your self belief and do not doubt the character you have rediscovered during your rehabilitation process.

Remember there is always a reason or process being followed to test/stress you to see if you will revert to offending again. They will not accept responsibility for their "regressive interview techniques" as being an influence if you do. 
 
Your rehabilitation has shown you the truth about yourself. You can listen to your doubters but you do not have to believe them 

I understand the questioning techniques used to push answers out of me but I will never understand the antagonistic approach to test us, this just leaves me feeling guilty and in a bad mood which means I am less inclined to contribute anything to society and it removes all guilt from screwing the benefit system because the country screwed me.

It would seem the world has gone mad where the small fish such as ourselves are made to feel like a bad person for years over a mistake, yet the real criminals are allowed to destroy livelihoods and profit from it without consequence.



Hi
I am pleased you understand my thoughts on the reasons for their manner of questioning.

What you must do; and I know from personal experience, is work on your "own quality of life" which will assist in maintaining your self belief. 

I wrote to my OM asking why they use this technique as it is known to be non productive for the individual; but as yet no response. There have and probably still is, cases were the individual has admitted to offences they did not commit purely on the influence of the technique. In other words they became confused on the actual truth because of the constant barrage of accusations and so their recollection is manipulated.
I found the below quote which I try to keep focused on when this type of question has been used. 
There is no such thing as truth as it is the perception of the individual
 

I know they form an opinion via the words of the "victim", so they do not know the truth. However my experience through this process is that other factors provide a bias for their beliefs so an "expansion" of the truth is developed. That is why I remember the quote.

"they form an opinion via the words of the "victim", so they do not know the truth"

This is just my being pedantic, but when you say they do not know the truth, this implies there is a truth to be known, when, as you also say, there is no such thing as truth, only perceptions. You also seem to be implying that the victim does not tell the truth and that only the offender really knows the truth.

It's not entirely clear to me whether truth, in the context of this discussion, refers to facts or opinions. There will be some elements of an offence which can be established as facts and other things which can only ever be opinions or perceptions. For those elements which can be proved to be factually correct, they can surely be described as a form of truth. For example, the fact that a person has been convicted of a certain offence, makes it true to state that they have been convicted of the offence.

GO


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