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No Equipment Getting Returned Currently


No Equipment Getting Returned Currently

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khafka
khafka
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Hi folks,

I thought I'd post a wee update in regards to getting equipment back as I'm still chasing mine. Please Note - I'm in Scotland so your mileage may vary

For those that don't want to trek through my history, to give you a quick overview and time-frame.

I was arrested in early 2019 and then sentencing in Feb 2020, the police found some indecent images on one of my HDDs but everything else was fine so that should be returned to me. I was advised after sentencing they will notify me within 28 days of how to get my stuff.

After 28 days I received nothing so have been chasing it up with the procurator fiscal but not getting anywhere. I sent an email today to the address they stated (_EnquiryPoint@copfs.gov.uk) requesting for an update on what is happening with my stuff. This is the brief response I got:


Good afternoon,

I can advise that any equipment that is to be returned will be with Police Scotland.

However, it should be noted that Police Scotland have issued instruction that they are not returning any items at this moment in time due to the ongoing health crisis.

Kind Regards

[REDACTED]
Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
National Enquiry Point

So basically looks like nobody is getting anything back or the foreseeable future.

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that police can only hold onto equipment for as long as necessary for the investigation under the PACE act, sadly that doesn't appear to be the case in Scotland.

Most of the equipment I'm not too bothered about. I would quite like my mobile back though considering I've been paying for it for the last 2 years and only really used it for about 5 months.

Alan Watts
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khafka - 4 May 20 3:18 PM
Hi folks,

I thought I'd post a wee update in regards to getting equipment back as I'm still chasing mine. Please Note - I'm in Scotland so your mileage may vary

For those that don't want to trek through my history, to give you a quick overview and time-frame.

I was arrested in early 2019 and then sentencing in Feb 2020, the police found some indecent images on one of my HDDs but everything else was fine so that should be returned to me. I was advised after sentencing they will notify me within 28 days of how to get my stuff.

After 28 days I received nothing so have been chasing it up with the procurator fiscal but not getting anywhere. I sent an email today to the address they stated (_EnquiryPoint@copfs.gov.uk) requesting for an update on what is happening with my stuff. This is the brief response I got:


Good afternoon,

I can advise that any equipment that is to be returned will be with Police Scotland.

However, it should be noted that Police Scotland have issued instruction that they are not returning any items at this moment in time due to the ongoing health crisis.

Kind Regards

[REDACTED]
Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
National Enquiry Point

So basically looks like nobody is getting anything back or the foreseeable future.

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that police can only hold onto equipment for as long as necessary for the investigation under the PACE act, sadly that doesn't appear to be the case in Scotland.

Most of the equipment I'm not too bothered about. I would quite like my mobile back though considering I've been paying for it for the last 2 years and only really used it for about 5 months.

Hi I was arrested in March 2017 for online harassment with lots of electronic devices taken, sentenced in August 2019 in Scotland

After a few phonecalls and in-person visits to both the police and procurator fiscal, they kept saying different things and blaming each other for not releasing an instruction etc. They broke their own rules on the 28 days or 3 months appeal period whatever it was

4 months after sentencing I put a complaint on the police website and the procurator fiscal website which went to the central system for Scotland, after I done this it was quickly resolved and I got to pick my stuff up

Everything was returned to me as it was left, I'm not sure what the case is if there was indecent images whether they clear it and then return it to you or they keep that part altogether
khafka
khafka
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alexh07 - 5 May 20 12:22 AM
khafka - 4 May 20 3:18 PM
Hi folks,

I thought I'd post a wee update in regards to getting equipment back as I'm still chasing mine. Please Note - I'm in Scotland so your mileage may vary

For those that don't want to trek through my history, to give you a quick overview and time-frame.

I was arrested in early 2019 and then sentencing in Feb 2020, the police found some indecent images on one of my HDDs but everything else was fine so that should be returned to me. I was advised after sentencing they will notify me within 28 days of how to get my stuff.

After 28 days I received nothing so have been chasing it up with the procurator fiscal but not getting anywhere. I sent an email today to the address they stated (_EnquiryPoint@copfs.gov.uk) requesting for an update on what is happening with my stuff. This is the brief response I got:


Good afternoon,

I can advise that any equipment that is to be returned will be with Police Scotland.

However, it should be noted that Police Scotland have issued instruction that they are not returning any items at this moment in time due to the ongoing health crisis.

Kind Regards

[REDACTED]
Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
National Enquiry Point

So basically looks like nobody is getting anything back or the foreseeable future.

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that police can only hold onto equipment for as long as necessary for the investigation under the PACE act, sadly that doesn't appear to be the case in Scotland.

Most of the equipment I'm not too bothered about. I would quite like my mobile back though considering I've been paying for it for the last 2 years and only really used it for about 5 months.

Hi I was arrested in March 2017 for online harassment with lots of electronic devices taken, sentenced in August 2019 in Scotland

After a few phonecalls and in-person visits to both the police and procurator fiscal, they kept saying different things and blaming each other for not releasing an instruction etc. They broke their own rules on the 28 days or 3 months appeal period whatever it was

4 months after sentencing I put a complaint on the police website and the procurator fiscal website which went to the central system for Scotland, after I done this it was quickly resolved and I got to pick my stuff up

Everything was returned to me as it was left, I'm not sure what the case is if there was indecent images whether they clear it and then return it to you or they keep that part altogether

The officer that takes care of me is really good, fair and I trust his judgment and advice on stuff.

He phoned me today to check up to see how I'm doing since they're not really doing many home visits at the moment. I told him of my plight which he agrees is a bit rubbish but did confirm that sadly nothing is really going to happen equipment wise for anyone until things settle down a bit.

He advised to just ping them an email on a monthly basis to keep nudging them as the PF have to give the authorisation that the case closed before Police Scotland can release it to my custody. All the stuff that didn't have anything incriminating will be returned as it was, not wiped as they image they image the drives as opposed to working directly from the machines. I forfeited my main PC and signed a sheet to confirm I'm okay with it being destroyed. But my laptop, my mobile and pen drives should all come back.

J J
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I have had similar issues below is an extract from a complaint to the ICO. For the record after TWO YEARS the devices where returned and no further action was taken

=============================================

Our view

It would appear that ****** had seized your devices in response to receiving information that your devices were being used to access indecent images of children.

This led to ******seizing your devices in order to carry out the proper checks to examine if the use of your laptop had been used for criminal activities.

With this in mind ******would have a lawful basis for processing your personal data in this way. GDPR Article 6 (e) gives the controller the right to process personal data when the processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of the official authority vested in the controller. DPA 2018 part 3 sets out a further basis for processing for law enforcement purposes.

For this reason, we would consider that the Police have not processed your personal data unlawfully at the purpose of processing of your personal data was for the detection and prevention of crime.

Duration of processing

As we understand it, you believe that the amount of time taken to return your devices has been excessive.

From the information provided, it would appear that the NTAC had to conduct a thorough investigation into the use of your devices as the police had reason to believe that your use of these devices may be in breach of SHPO.

The NTAC was tasked with conducting the investigation as they have the necessary resources to conduct this sort of investigation but it is noted that the NTAC have limited resources.

You were unable to identify your passwords to the police and this led to further delay in the NTACs ability to complete its purpose for processing.

The Police have informed the ICO that your devices were returned when the appropriate checks had been completed. They contacted you July 2019 to collect all of your items.

It would appear that you dispute that all of your devices containing your personal data were returned to you however there is not sufficient evidence for the ICO to make an assessment on this aspect of your complaint.

I appreciate that you believe that the Police has not handled your devices with the appropriate care but the ICO can only look at the data protection aspect of your complaint.

From the evidence provided it appears that the Police had a lawful basis for processing and have limited their processing to what is necessary for the prevention and detection of crime and so it seems that there is no scope for the ICO to take regulatory action in relation to your complaint.

We keep a record of all the complaints raised with us about the way organisations process personal information. The information we gather from complaints may form the basis for action we may take in the future to ensure organistions meet their information rights obligations.

Please be aware that our decision will not affect your ability to seek personal redress or affect your ability to enforce your rights through the courts.


khafka
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Just thought I'd keep this updated almost as a journal of sorts...

Still chasing it!

I'm sending them at least one email every month until something happens. This month I've sent two. One was the main one which has seemingly been forwarded onto my local police force, no response after a week from there so I nudged them again looking for a response. This again was forwarded. It'll be 2 weeks on Tuesday, so they can expect another nudge!

This is off of advice my PPU gave. Hopefully if I keep pestering them they'll eventually give me my stuff to make me piss off and leave them alone.

Still a bit aggrieved at having to pay for pretty much an entire mobile phone contract without barely using it but hey-ho.


JASB
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khafka - 10 Oct 20 9:19 AM
Just thought I'd keep this updated almost as a journal of sorts...

Still chasing it!

I'm sending them at least one email every month until something happens. This month I've sent two. One was the main one which has seemingly been forwarded onto my local police force, no response after a week from there so I nudged them again looking for a response. This again was forwarded. It'll be 2 weeks on Tuesday, so they can expect another nudge!

This is off of advice my PPU gave. Hopefully if I keep pestering them they'll eventually give me my stuff to make me piss off and leave them alone.

Still a bit aggrieved at having to pay for pretty much an entire mobile phone contract without barely using it but hey-ho.


Hi

Unfortunately when I was in this situation it took over a year and getting my then solicitor to contact them. Some equipment came back broken etc but they denied responsibility.

On another note the other post you left this morning about the disclosure reforms that I posted about in Sept doesn't seem to let you reply??

It seems the wording is as I felt it might be i.e. SO's being punished instead of accepting rehabilitation is possible. Again PR for votes especially as a drug dealer etc that manipulates children and other vulnerable persons is praised.

Take care

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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JASB - 10 Oct 20 2:16 PM
khafka - 10 Oct 20 9:19 AM
Just thought I'd keep this updated almost as a journal of sorts...

Still chasing it!

I'm sending them at least one email every month until something happens. This month I've sent two. One was the main one which has seemingly been forwarded onto my local police force, no response after a week from there so I nudged them again looking for a response. This again was forwarded. It'll be 2 weeks on Tuesday, so they can expect another nudge!

This is off of advice my PPU gave. Hopefully if I keep pestering them they'll eventually give me my stuff to make me piss off and leave them alone.

Still a bit aggrieved at having to pay for pretty much an entire mobile phone contract without barely using it but hey-ho.


Hi

Unfortunately when I was in this situation it took over a year and getting my then solicitor to contact them. Some equipment came back broken etc but they denied responsibility.

On another note the other post you left this morning about the disclosure reforms that I posted about in Sept doesn't seem to let you reply??

It seems the wording is as I felt it might be i.e. SO's being punished instead of accepting rehabilitation is possible. Again PR for votes especially as a drug dealer etc that manipulates children and other vulnerable persons is praised.

Take care

Yeah - my equipment came back minus a hard drive. I had recodings of the police on it...
khafka
khafka
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Nudged them again at the end of the week. Also enquired as to who/how I'd complain to as I thought it was ridiculous its taking so long.

Got no real response to that but was informed they have passed it onto my local station! For the 3rd time...

They did mention the delay was due to COVID but then I pointed out the country went into lockdown on the 23rd of March. My guilty plea was tendered in about August last year, I think, I was sentenced at the start of February. The notes did state they'd only hold onto things as long as it is relevant to the investigation. Once they submitted their final report and dismissed my other equipment as being clean then surely they are no longer relevant?

One of my big gripes is I don't really know who is the issue here. If it is the Procurator Fiscal, my local station or the initial arresting detective in charge. They all seem to be blaming each other.

Was
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khafka - 19 Oct 20 10:06 PM
One of my big gripes is I don't really know who is the issue here. If it is the Procurator Fiscal, my local station or the initial arresting detective in charge. They all seem to be blaming each other.

My equipment was returned to me on the day of sentencing in person by the lead officer dropping it off at my door, so I suspect that it is the detective's responsibility
khafka
khafka
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So pinged another email off to the PF again today.

Good afternoon,

Despite numerous chase ups it has still been nearly a month and I'm still waiting on a reply in regards to this matter.

COVID19 was mentioned in the past as a reason for the delay but with all due respect this should have all been dealt with months before COVID even became a thing. I also enquired in my previous email in regards to how to raise a complaint and to whom the complaint should be addressed in regards to feeling I'm being ignored, ironically, that question was seemingly ignored.

Can I get a clear answer as to who is currently responsible at this moment in time for releasing my equipment?

Last time I got anything resembling a response from the [MY LOCAL POLICE DEPT] they mentioned they are happy to release it once the Procurator Fiscal issues a notice to them to allow it to be released. The fact the default answer at present from me emailing the Procurator Fiscal seems to be to forward my email to the [MY LOCAL POLICE DEPT] leads me to believe the hold up is with the [MY LOCAL POLICE DEPT.
So who is currently holding this up at the moment, so I can direct my attention correctly?

Kind regards
[REDACTED]

I'm taking bets on the response.

I'm wagering it'll be something along the lines of:

Good afternoon/morning Khafka,

I understand you are getting frustrated but due to COVID 19 issues like this are taking long than they normally should. Rest assured I have forwarded on your concerns to the [MY LOCAL POLICE DEPT].

Regards,

Procurator Fiscal Person


Edited
8 Months Ago by khafka
GO


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