Wherever you are in the UK, whether England & Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, one of the fundamental principles is that you only tell them what they're going to see if they do the right level of check. That level depends on the job itself, not the whims, pretensions, delusions or misunderstandings of the employer. So, if the correct check is a basic disclosure, only tell them if you have any unspent convictions. Once your conviction is spent, you have the right to be treated in the same way as someone who never had that conviction. If a conviction is disclosed that you think shouldn't be disclosed, the first thing to do is to raise it with whichever agency produced it. So, for khafka, that would be Disclosure Scotland. You would probably need to tell them why you think it shouldn't be disclosed, or they will just fob you off.


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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

Yeah, that's my thinking.

It certainly isn't a role I'd expect to have any relevant safeguarding element, it's an office-based, over the phone customer service type role. Doesn't involve interacting with children.

I believe my conviction is spent but it seems a little confusing as Police Scotland and my social worker claim it isn't yet looking at all the documents and guidelines online it should be. I've sent an enquiry off to Disclosure Scotland to see what they say as ultimately it'll be then that'll pass the information on if an employer requests a certificate.

It just seems to be that one little bit about "not previous convictions, or..." that's throwing me off.

I am tempted to just sign it off as if I have none and then if something crops up then I can just deal with it then and say "well look, it's spent, I'm under no legal obligation to inform you of it. Has it effected my ability to do my role? blah blah blah".

It does specifically mention unspent convictions? Even if it didn't a spent conviction shouldn't be disclosed on a form which asks for "all convictions" unless the role is part of the protected group that require it.

If your conviction is spent (which it sounds like if you just have SOR and no SHPO) I would be filling in that form as if I had no convictions.

So the big question has been asked. Not even if it's unspent, they just want to know about any convictions but allegedly it won't be held against me.

https://i.imgur.com/7P0iGds.png

That little box isn't exactly enough to detail out the offence, so what do we think?

Hi sorry for the delay in replying.
I have applied for roles utilising my skill set plus those that I have transferable skills to meet the role requirements.
As I have been involved in "HR/recruitment " for many years as part of various responsibilities I have always read the adverts very closely. If there is ambiguity in the wording I discuss without disclosure of my details initially. It is / can be a game of chess as I fully agree why disclose if there is not a need.

BAE for instance was disclosed to and was willing to apply for my SC clearance; the Project Manger though had no issues said he was just to busy to argue why me and not  another.
A minimum wage "customer support" firm that had no reason to be disclosed to did ask an "off handed" question about why, with my skillset did I want the job". I obviously went down the "honesty" path but only to be rejected because of the "public image" aspect.
I had a planned face to face interview with the probation office in a "liberated" southern coastal town/city. No client interaction was required. When the PO Manger found out they cancelled the interview due to it being a "sex offence". My PO/PPU was supporting me for the role!.
Charity shops are plentiful in my small town BUT it is the "older generation" managing the "data" so the dangers of the information spreading due to lack of control measures  makes it not an option.

I could go on but I believe you get my approach has not been limited as you described,. 
I am never negative in my approach just realistic based on my understanding of "society" and it's comparison when making decisions based on incorrect or unknown facts but see the label "sex".

I become officially a "pensioner" soon so for the last few years I have accepted the path my life is following with a smile and living in the "present" knowing .    

Society suggests I must let go of all my expectations but I disagree, as whilst I have a voice, I have hope.

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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This forum supports these words, thank you Unlock and your contributors.

oh wow that seems pretty helpful. I wish we had something like that down here. I'm trying to get out of this mode of feeling helpless. I keep thinking about all the years left till my order is over. I'm trying to get the confidence to start ebay reselling or something like that. Really need to push myself into something soon, because sitting at home is doing my head in. I keep thinking about finding another course to do. But then I think oh well that will just be a week or two. Another worthless piece of paper and im back to where I started. Sorry for being so negative. Life is hard. 

Thanks guys, I will keep you posted!

I haven't ordered a disclosure certificate yet as by the time it arrives I might be employed and they might order one as well so seems like a wasted exercise  However, I have reached out to Disclosure Scotland to basically say "This is my situation, what do you reckon?" so we'll see what they say.

Jamie - It's a relatively new thing that seems to have started up called the Long Term Unemployment Scheme. It's partially funded by the Scottish Government and it's geared towards those that have been out of work for 12+ months and are facing "additional barriers" back into work. Basically employers will sign up for it, they can get some staff on the cheap for XX time (I believe it's up to 6 months). The DWP/Scot Gov will cover a majority of their wages, I'm not sure the exact split, the employer then also has the chance/potential to bring that member of staff on permanently. In theory the idea is that employers won't have to be as cautious about who to bring in and allow them the opportunity to 'take a chance' on someone they might otherwise look over in a more traditional hiring setting. The cynic in me though sees this getting abused by companies to just get some cheap labor then dump them once the contract runs out.

Please keep us updated khafka. I wish my job centre could set something up like that. All they seem to do is say ok well see you in 2 weeks. OK thanks

I know you're in Scotland, but I can assure you that in England, being on the SOR doesn't keep your conviction unspent. If you have an SHPO, that will keep your conviction unspent while it's in force, but I couldn't see anything about relevant orders (or any Scottish equivalent) when I looked at that law. If anything, it would come under the very last entry, where "anything not listed here" is 12 months. If you do get that basic disclosure and it's clear, you know exactly where you stand.

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If you are to punish a man retributively you must injure him. If you are to reform him you must improve him. And men are not improved by injuries. (George Bernard Shaw)

It was a social worker, it was a bit of a debate that happened in a group session as I had mentioned at that point my sentence was spent as my 'punishment' element (community service) had been completed for well over a year by then, I was just working my way through the rehab bit and obviously seeing out my time on the register. After much back and forth they basically ruled that normally yes but being on register keeps it unspent, so it'll remain unspent until the day I'm off the register. I could be wrong but I could've sworn that sexual offences will still show on a basic, albeit they'll show as spent but they'll still show up as they're on a basic disclosure but I might be wrong on that and maybe misread it.

EDIT -
Doing a bit more reading it does seem my initial suspicions were correct that as it stands, right now my conviction is spent. One website addresses it specifically and even has an example which is basically my exact situation.

Example 2

Dave was convicted of downloading indecent images and received a two-year community order. He will be on the Sex Offenders Register for five years, but his conviction will be spent after three years (i.e. one year from the end of his two-year order).

I was 6 months community payback (got pushed to 12 months due to COVID delaying things) and register for 3 years.