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Selling new game consoles/computers with an S.O?


Selling new game consoles/computers with an S.O?

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JASB
JASB
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Was - 15 Oct 22 3:27 PM
JASB - 15 Oct 22 12:23 PM
Hi
Technically we are both right as it depends when the "power" dissipates from the "ram" module, not when the PC is turned off; there is a timescale difference in its decay and so become unreadable. Also the temperature can have an affect. But accessing it all depends on the scenario the module has  / is in. I mention it because as you mention there is always advancement and pressure put on the individual when being questioned as if the "investigator is knowable in all matters".


RAM loses its retention of data within seconds of the refresh cycle being removed. Effectively the data is stored in capacitors that the refresh cycle recharges. The physical size of the millions/billions of capacitors on a chip is a limiting factor on how long data could be saved for. It would take a huge decree of sophistry from a PPU to suggest that RAM is capable of retaining memory. It would never hold up on court 😉

Hi

As I said we are both right.
As it retains data; even for the briefest amount of time, it could be in all honesty be said by an "interviewer". Therefore used as a pressure question to induce the person being interviewed to say something that could allow other questions to be asked. The "retention" point does not have to be raised in Court. However, as we both have said it does, so they could in all honesty prove it; it is just the duration that would be subject to criticism, but only if the interviewer actually stated "time" factors. 
Distraction and pressure can still achieve the desired aim. 

take care and hope you get my drift Smile

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
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JASB - 15 Oct 22 12:23 PM
Hi
Technically we are both right as it depends when the "power" dissipates from the "ram" module, not when the PC is turned off; there is a timescale difference in its decay and so become unreadable. Also the temperature can have an affect. But accessing it all depends on the scenario the module has  / is in. I mention it because as you mention there is always advancement and pressure put on the individual when being questioned as if the "investigator is knowable in all matters".


RAM loses its retention of data within seconds of the refresh cycle being removed. Effectively the data is stored in capacitors that the refresh cycle recharges. The physical size of the millions/billions of capacitors on a chip is a limiting factor on how long data could be saved for. It would take a huge decree of sophistry from a PPU to suggest that RAM is capable of retaining memory. It would never hold up on court 😉
JASB
JASB
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Was - 11 Oct 22 2:11 PM
JASB - 11 Oct 22 11:07 AM
I agree with the concept but if the PPU have serious issues with an individual, items like RAM for example can hold data as they are never really cleaned (except with special software.)

RAM does not have persistent memory. Remove the refresh cycle (i.e. power off the device) and it is gone. Same goes with graphics cards. They don't magically store the last image displayed on a screen. 

However, SD Cards, HDD and SSDs do retain data after power off (it's why they exist) so guidance on them may be required. The odd thing though, is that in 5 years with a SHPO, I was never once asked for access to my offline storage media so they could have a look at what was on them. Or access to the browser history on my Amazon Firesticks (even though I'd declared them and never deleted anything).

Of course, most of the traps are there to catch out those who are trying their best to play by the rules. I'm not going to detail it here, but there is a way to use a computer that is virtually undetectable by the police for anyone who was really determined to reoffend, regardless of any monitoring software. It's my considered opinion that most of the device rules are in the "We must be seen to be doing something" category rather than have any actual effect on preventing offences.

Hi
Technically we are both right as it depends when the "power" dissipates from the "ram" module, not when the PC is turned off; there is a timescale difference in its decay and so become unreadable. Also the temperature can have an affect. But accessing it all depends on the scenario the module has  / is in. I mention it because as you mention there is always advancement and pressure put on the individual when being questioned as if the "investigator is knowable in all matters".

In my case they raise my IT background in the terms "you have the ability to hide things because of my career". I just replied "do you think Billy Gates knows everything about computers?"

Its same the reason you should not take a lie detector test after being repeatedly questioned and accused ; a movie called "Regression" is a find example of an innocent man pleading guilty to a crime though he knew nothing about the event due to the interviewing technique used. based on a true story that actually brought interview technique changes. 

I actually complained to my PPU that after numerous years I was still being accused of events / thoughts etc which had been disproved. Subsequently the emotional aspects of visits changed! 





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JASB - 11 Oct 22 11:07 AM
I agree with the concept but if the PPU have serious issues with an individual, items like RAM for example can hold data as they are never really cleaned (except with special software.)

RAM does not have persistent memory. Remove the refresh cycle (i.e. power off the device) and it is gone. Same goes with graphics cards. They don't magically store the last image displayed on a screen. 

However, SD Cards, HDD and SSDs do retain data after power off (it's why they exist) so guidance on them may be required. The odd thing though, is that in 5 years with a SHPO, I was never once asked for access to my offline storage media so they could have a look at what was on them. Or access to the browser history on my Amazon Firesticks (even though I'd declared them and never deleted anything).

Of course, most of the traps are there to catch out those who are trying their best to play by the rules. I'm not going to detail it here, but there is a way to use a computer that is virtually undetectable by the police for anyone who was really determined to reoffend, regardless of any monitoring software. It's my considered opinion that most of the device rules are in the "We must be seen to be doing something" category rather than have any actual effect on preventing offences.
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JASB - 11 Oct 22 11:07 AM
Was - 30 Sep 22 4:33 PM
JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 12:22 PM
Thank you guys. Yes it was purely with the intention of selling them and not using them. I could stick to things like graphic cards, just less profits overall.bIll read through my SHPO again. Thanks

I do think there is profit in breaking down old devices and selling the components in eBay. Memory is a good one. The prices of "legacy" stock is way out of proportion when buying from places like Crucial/Kinsgston etc compared with their actual worth. Just make sure that you describe the components accurately. Use something like Crucial Laptop Ram & Memory for Computers | Crucial.com to check whether the buyer is actually getting the right stuff.


Hi
I agree with the concept but if the PPU have serious issues with an individual, items like RAM for example can hold data as they are never really cleaned (except with special software.)

So speaking on a broader sense, if you are considering this concept, it would be wise to seriously research how you can "certify" them "clean" and include it in your "written business plan" if you show it to the PPU. 

Unfortunately even though HM Inspectorate of Probation  say 
Indeed, those who are deemed lower risk have measured reoffending risks similar to the general population

We are not the general public and so have to go that extra step; even when innocent.

Although RAM does in fact save data to its chips, once power is removed (shutdown) the data that was on the RAM is no longer there and to my knowledge can not be recovered. The data RAM stores is mostly used for the CPU in order for it to process applications which the operating system needs in order to function, which requires a source of data such as a hard drive, USB or SSD where data can be stored.

"cleaning" storage devices on the other hand could potentially cause issues if this is done before the PPU get the chance to "inspect" said device. Given most in our circumstances with SHPO's in place prevent deleting internet history. PPU will use this against you.
PPU have arrested individuals for breaches many times for simply using applications like "CC Cleaner" which is primarily used to remove unwanted registry and driver data from your operating system and has no effect on internet history. But the courts still sentence this as a breach and only shows how out dated the justice system is. That or these individuals had very poor defense.

As I said in a previous post, if your SHPO states you must inform of new devices then it is your choice to either provide those details and have them ready for inspection, or you take the order back to court to challenge it quoting the Smith vs R court of appeal.
If the SHPO does not state to inform of new devices then you are under no obligation to tell them anything, other than if they ask what devices you have currently in your possession and allow them to be inspected when they visit.

JASB
JASB
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Was - 30 Sep 22 4:33 PM
JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 12:22 PM
Thank you guys. Yes it was purely with the intention of selling them and not using them. I could stick to things like graphic cards, just less profits overall.bIll read through my SHPO again. Thanks

I do think there is profit in breaking down old devices and selling the components in eBay. Memory is a good one. The prices of "legacy" stock is way out of proportion when buying from places like Crucial/Kinsgston etc compared with their actual worth. Just make sure that you describe the components accurately. Use something like Crucial Laptop Ram & Memory for Computers | Crucial.com to check whether the buyer is actually getting the right stuff.


Hi
I agree with the concept but if the PPU have serious issues with an individual, items like RAM for example can hold data as they are never really cleaned (except with special software.)

So speaking on a broader sense, if you are considering this concept, it would be wise to seriously research how you can "certify" them "clean" and include it in your "written business plan" if you show it to the PPU. 

Unfortunately even though HM Inspectorate of Probation  say 
Indeed, those who are deemed lower risk have measured reoffending risks similar to the general population

We are not the general public and so have to go that extra step; even when innocent.


Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
JASB
JASB
Supreme Being
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JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 6:32 AM
Hi. So I recently saw an opportunity of reselling new computers and consoles online for profit. Not sure if this is a really bad idea/allowed? I have an S.O for images, but only was looking at selling brand new items that apparently sell well. I obviously realize it might be a problem,  almost didn't want to ask, but   with money being hard to come by and with a good amount of potential profit-  Just thought it was worth asking. Thanks.

Hi
Have you considered a business plan that allows you to sell but the items are shipped direct from your supplier source? Or even via a distribution point you have no access to?
This means you are not handling e.g. opening the boxes. Show the PPU the plan to show your intention to work within any and all conditions imposed. This approach at least should gain you smarty points and if your documentation is available, even harder for the PPU to say otherwise.

The road to your destination is not always along one path



Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope is for tomorrow else what is left if you remove a mans hope.
JamesZ
JamesZ
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Was - 30 Sep 22 4:33 PM
JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 12:22 PM
Thank you guys. Yes it was purely with the intention of selling them and not using them. I could stick to things like graphic cards, just less profits overall.bIll read through my SHPO again. Thanks

I do think there is profit in breaking down old devices and selling the components in eBay. Memory is a good one. The prices of "legacy" stock is way out of proportion when buying from places like Crucial/Kinsgston etc compared with their actual worth. Just make sure that you describe the components accurately. Use something like Crucial Laptop Ram & Memory for Computers | Crucial.com to check whether the buyer is actually getting the right stuff.


Good idea. Thanks
Was
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JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 12:22 PM
Thank you guys. Yes it was purely with the intention of selling them and not using them. I could stick to things like graphic cards, just less profits overall.bIll read through my SHPO again. Thanks

I do think there is profit in breaking down old devices and selling the components in eBay. Memory is a good one. The prices of "legacy" stock is way out of proportion when buying from places like Crucial/Kinsgston etc compared with their actual worth. Just make sure that you describe the components accurately. Use something like Crucial Laptop Ram & Memory for Computers | Crucial.com to check whether the buyer is actually getting the right stuff.


JamesZ
JamesZ
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JamesZ - 30 Sep 22 12:19 PM
Was - 30 Sep 22 10:07 AM
Bear in mind that a PPU will often interpret any condition with prejudice. Mine was clear that I had to inform within 3 days of getting a device, but my PPO used the clause saying I could not use a device without monitoring software as overriding it and if I switched it on to set it up during those 3 days, I'd be in breach. After that I just had everything delivered to the police station unopened and told them to set them up. They were stumped when I got a Windows phone. 

Also keep in mind that smart TVs/Firesticks/Now boxes etc. also often come with web browsers and WiFi connections, so you need to inform them of those as well.



Thank you guys. Yes it was purely with the intention of selling them and not using them. I could stick to things like graphic cards, just less profits overall.bIll read through my SHPO again. Thanks
GO


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